Has democracy ended in the U.S.?

[jj22]

(07-02-2018, 12:06 PM)michaelsean Wrote: That's awesome but has nothing to do with what I was replying to.

Well you prove my point then. You had to "survive" Reid and Pelosi, but under the current circumstances of government you I guess are fine with. Which was my point. If this was Obama's presidency you guys would be outraged over what we see happening everyday for the last 20 months.

Or do you feel like you are surviving this administration?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-02-2018, 12:07 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So you're really running with the Nazi thing huh?  

Apparently he's doing precisely that.

[jj22]

(07-02-2018, 12:01 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You're right, imagine what would have happened if Obama's administration was putting "kids in cages".

Difference is you guys rely on Fake News to slam Obama, while Trump provides real news worthy of critique.

So you have those who are outraged over fake news and conspiracy theories concerning Obama and Hillary, while Trump is doing exactly what you guys are outraged over fake news/Conspiracy theories about, and yet you guys are fine with it when it is happening in real life. Go figure.

[Bengalzona]

Frankly, if a political group uses tactics or approaches similar to, say, Nazis or Soviets, I think it is fair to say that they are using tactics and approaches similar to the Nazis or the Soviets. That is not the same as saying they are Nazis or Soviets, unless they try to do almost everything Nazis or Soviets did.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-02-2018, 12:11 PM)jj22 Wrote: Difference is you guys rely on Fake News to slam Obama, while Trump provides real news worthy of critique.

So you have those who are outraged over fake news and conspiracy theories concerning Obama and Hillary, while Trump is doing exactly what you guys are outraged over fake news about, and yet you guys are fine with it.

LOL, "you guys".  There seems to be a trend of labeling posters as "the other" and it appears to be confined to a very specific group.  Back to the point of the post you responded to, do you remember the outrage when Obama was putting "kids in cages"?

(07-02-2018, 12:13 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Frankly, if a political group uses tactics or approaches similar to, say, Nazis or Soviets, I think it is fair to say that they are using tactics and approaches similar to the Nazis or the Soviets. That is not the same as saying they are Nazis or Soviets, unless they try to do almost everything Nazis or Soviets did.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

Very true.  Like trying to improve our infrastructure.  That's exactly what Hitler did!

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 12:09 PM)jj22 Wrote: Well you prove my point then. You had to "survive" Reid and Pelosi, but under the current circumstances of government you I guess are fine with. Which was my point. If this was Obama's presidency you guys would be outraged over what we see happening everyday for the last 20 months.

Or do you feel like you are surviving this administration?

 Not one other person on this board thinks I actually meant we had to survive it.  I promise I'll use the sarcasm alert just for you in the future.

[Bengalzona]

(07-02-2018, 12:16 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Very true.  Like trying to improve our infrastructure.  That's exactly what Hitler did!

He was also noted for favoring tactics like this:

[GMDino]

(07-02-2018, 11:44 AM)Beaker Wrote: No, I meant like everyone is only out to get theirs, their feelings are the ones that matter and screw everyone else type mentality.

Oh...not buying that.

But thanks.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 12:16 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: LOL, "you guys".  There seems to be a trend of labeling posters as "the other" and it appears to be confined to a very specific group.  Back to the point of the post you responded to, do you remember the outrage when Obama was putting "kids in cages"?


Very true.  Like trying to improve our infrastructure.  That's exactly what Hitler did!

A vegetarian as well, but I concede I always kind of thought of them as Nazis.

[Belsnickel]

Okay, this has, of course, become a partisan discussion. Let's back it up a little bit. The public started losing faith in our institutions with the release of the Pentagon Papers. That was an unveiling of lying by a Democrat (Johnson) and there was a retaliation by a Republican (Nixon) for it. Then Nixon made things worse, and Ford after him. Then you ave just had a continual slide down the tree of idiocy. Newt Gingrich is probably more responsible for the current state of affairs than anyone thanks to his GOPAC memo. That really helped tear apart an environment in Washington where opponents weren't considered enemies. He succeeded where McCarthy failed, and we have been seeing the fruits of his labor ever since.

Why did the Republicans obstruct on Garland? Because of the Democrats obstructing on Bork. Why did they obstruct on Bork? The back and forth started by Gingrich. Both parties have taken an attitude that is their job to win while they are in Washington. That's it. Their job isn't to improve the economy, create a more educated and healthy citizenry, improve social and racial equity. No, those may happen because that will help their polling, but that isn't their goal like it once was. The goal now is to win, nothing more, because winning means the corporatocracy will keep filling their coffers and it is a big continual cycle.

[jj22]

(07-02-2018, 12:16 PM)michaelsean Wrote:  Not one other person on this board thinks I actually meant we had to survive it.  I promise I'll use the sarcasm alert just for you in the future.

Well however you meant it do you feel you are "surviving" this Administration?

[Belsnickel]

(07-02-2018, 12:13 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Frankly, if a political group uses tactics or approaches similar to, say, Nazis or Soviets, I think it is fair to say that they are using tactics and approaches similar to the Nazis or the Soviets. That is not the same as saying they are Nazis or Soviets, unless they try to do almost everything Nazis or Soviets did.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

I think it is more appropriate to say that Trump shows autocratic tendencies. I don't think comparing him to other autocrats is necessarily helpful at this point because he has been mostly talk to this point. It may not stay that way, the norms may knuckle under, but so far there is still some structure in place keeping him in check.

[GMDino]

(07-02-2018, 12:07 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So you're really running with the Nazi thing huh?  

I'm running with he does nazi like things....even the article the SSF posted says that.

(07-02-2018, 12:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I always enjoy your penchant for slapping labels on people, very progressive of you.


I'm fine with any comparison or analogy that is based in fact.  For a person who claims to dislike hateful and violent rhetoric you seem to be willfully ignorant to the dangers of labeling your political opponents as Nazis.

Making comparison to the words and actions of people isn't labeling them.  It's observation.

Did I say violent things should be done to them?  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-02-2018, 12:17 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: He was also noted for favoring tactics like this:

See, here's the thing.  All white supremacists oppose illegal immigration.  However, not everyone (or even close to a significant percentage) who opposes illegal immigration is a white supremacist.  This is the point I was making with the infrastructure analogy.  You can hold the same opinion on a subject as a garbage human being without, 1. becoming the same as said garbage human being and 2. without the subject of the opinion being tainted by the approval of that person.  You're a smart person, I honestly shouldn't have to be explaining this to you.

(07-02-2018, 12:18 PM)michaelsean Wrote: A vegetarian as well, but I concede I always kind of thought of them as Nazis.

He was also a huge animal lover, a large reason for his being a vegetarian.  So, let's summarize. Animal lovers and vegetarians are all Nazis!

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 12:20 PM)jj22 Wrote: Well however you meant it do you feel you are "surviving" this Administration?

I feel this admin will come and go like all admins and I will still be here in 3 years when someone else becomes President.  I don't feel I survive any administration in that way.  i outlast them because they aren't allowed to stay as long as they want, and then someone else comes in and does some stuff half the people like and half the people don't, and then he or maybe she will go away as well.  

[GMDino]

(07-02-2018, 12:21 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think it is more appropriate to say that Trump shows autocratic tendencies. I don't think comparing him to other autocrats is necessarily helpful at this point because he has been mostly talk to this point. It may not stay that way, the norms may knuckle under, but so far there is still some structure in place keeping him in check.

Just saw this on Friday:



I good with saying "Heeeeyyyy....these guys are starting to look a little familiar and maybe we need to make sure we are keeping a good check on them" while not saying they are actual nazis.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 12:18 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Okay, this has, of course, become a partisan discussion. Let's back it up a little bit. The public started losing faith in our institutions with the release of the Pentagon Papers. That was an unveiling of lying by a Democrat (Johnson) and there was a retaliation by a Republican (Nixon) for it. Then Nixon made things worse, and Ford after him. Then you ave just had a continual slide down the tree of idiocy. Newt Gingrich is probably more responsible for the current state of affairs than anyone thanks to his GOPAC memo. That really helped tear apart an environment in Washington where opponents weren't considered enemies. He succeeded where McCarthy failed, and we have been seeing the fruits of his labor ever since.

Why did the Republicans obstruct on Garland? Because of the Democrats obstructing on Bork. Why did they obstruct on Bork? The back and forth started by Gingrich. Both parties have taken an attitude that is their job to win while they are in Washington. That's it. Their job isn't to improve the economy, create a more educated and healthy citizenry, improve social and racial equity. No, those may happen because that will help their polling, but that isn't their goal like it once was. The goal now is to win, nothing more, because winning means the corporatocracy will keep filling their coffers and it is a big continual cycle.

I certainly agree that winning trumps all for them.

[GMDino]

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-02-2018, 12:25 PM)GMDino Wrote: I'm running with he does nazi like things....even the article the SSF posted says that.

It actually doesn't say that.

Quote:Making comparison to the words and actions of people isn't labeling them.  It's observation.

What you just described is the very definition of labeling someone.

Quote:Did I say violent things should be done to them?  

Nah, not at all.  What could possibly happen to a person who is labeled as a member of one of the most evil ideologies the human race has ever produced?  It's not like some people would feel justified in acting violently towards them or anything.

[jj22]

(07-02-2018, 12:26 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I feel this admin will come and go like all admins and I will still be here in 3 years when someone else becomes President.  I don't feel I survive any administration in that way.  i outlast them because they aren't allowed to stay as long as they want, and then someone else comes in and does some stuff half the people like and half the people don't, and then he or maybe she will go away as well.  

Fair enough.