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McCarthy screwed himself from the very beginning. First he spoke against trump right after J6 then turned right around and made the unforgivable sin of going to MaraLardo to kiss the fat ass. His speakership was premised on making the deal with the rat f***rs of the maga crowd who would never back any deal with the Democratic party so they, the Democrats bailed him out TWICE with the debt ceiling fiasco then the resolution to keep the government open AND THEN turned right around and tried to blame the Democratic party for the government going almost tits up then again almost closing down. McCarthy had ZERO credibility and could never be trusted.. He screwed himself with his own dildo in front of the entire world..
In the immortal words of my old man, "Wait'll you get to be my age!"
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(10-03-2023, 07:04 PM)GMDino Wrote: The gop runs on a platform of saying government doesn't work and do everything in the power once elected to prove it.
Exactly the truth..They're the reason Rats have babies..
In the immortal words of my old man, "Wait'll you get to be my age!"
Chicago sounds rough to the maker of verse, but the one comfort we have is Cincinnati sounds worse. ~Oliver Wendal Holmes Sr.
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(10-03-2023, 06:41 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Much like the government shutdown, this is clearly at the feet of those darn stubborn Democrats. If only a handful of them could be so reasonable as to break with their party this could have been avoided. 
Yeah..Democrats fault that McCarthy was such a pissant with zero credibility with absolutely zero trustworthiness.. You sure owned us libs with this one.. 
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Is there an objective breakdown somewhere that says why this was good or bad for each party? I haven’t been closely following
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(10-03-2023, 08:55 PM)basballguy Wrote: Is there an objective breakdown somewhere that says why this was good or bad for each party? I haven’t been closely following
No, because there is no real objective way to view it. Especially now that he has decided not to run again for the office it is an interesting conundrum. I know why Democrats would have been in favor of giving McCarthy the boot, but the devil you know and all that.
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Like they were saying. Things were never this bad even when George Santos was speaker. At least he got stuff done.
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(10-03-2023, 08:55 PM)basballguy Wrote: Is there an objective breakdown somewhere that says why this was good or bad for each party? I haven’t been closely following
My initial guess is that seeing fringe GOPers like Matt Gaetz continue to be far more visible and linked to the GOP than they should be isn't something republican strategists who are looking to recover the independents they lost between 2016 and 2020 want to see. I don't see how McCarthy taking a record breaking number of votes to be elected speaker and then becoming the first speaker in history to be removed from his position helps the republican party wipe off the circus stink the general public seemed to have soured on during Trump's first term.
2024 is still up in the air, but I'm not sure voters who lean right are content to see the GOP fight itself rather than fight the left.
Also, Trump endorsed McCarthy and he had a historically hard time getting voted in and was historically booted out. Add in that democrats have the presidency and the senate and the only thing the GOP has is the house which they are using to fight amongst themselves and remove their own party leader, and it might be a bad look.
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Has the chance risen that there will be shutdown when that temporary deal expires? And I wonder how much of this angle is what the Dems are hoping for as they can use it as political ammunition going into the holiday season.
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(10-03-2023, 09:30 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Has the chance risen that there will be shutdown when that temporary deal expires? And I wonder how much of this angle is what the Dems are hoping for as they can use it as political ammunition going into the holiday season.
We can at least be sure that right wrong or otherwise if/when the government shuts down and regular people suffer both sides will be using it as ammunition to whip up support for their own sides.
With that being said, I think democrats' only real strategy behind voting to remove McCarthy is that when he was under threat from his own party they offered to protect him if he offered them something and he said "no deal." Given how left-leaning voters continuously whine that their party is spineless and doesn't do anything, I'd say McCarthy put them in a position where they had to (surprisingly) do something after being slapped in the proverbial face.
Will any of this matter in 13 months if it's Biden v Trump part II? Meh, maybe not.
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(10-03-2023, 07:18 PM)pally Wrote: Rep Patrick McHenry of North Carolina is the temporary Speaker. He is 2nd in line in Republican House Leadership as Chief Whip.
Apparently a post-9/11 House rule requires the Speaker to provide a private list of who is to succeed him to the House Clerk. McHenry must have been at the top. He is a known ally of McCarthy's
So temporary Speaker McHenry has very limited powers. But he took advantage of one power, to evict Nancy Pelosi from her Capitol office....while she is in California attending Dianne Feinstein's funeral. This will surely solve all of the Republican's problems.
Seriously, explain to me, why every Republican in leadership finds it necessary to be petty and vindictive? Another piece of evidence that shows the world that Republicans in Congress are unable to put GOVERNING above pettiness
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(10-03-2023, 09:50 PM)pally Wrote: Seriously, explain to me, why every Republican in leadership finds it necessary to be petty and vindictive?
Is that not exactly what the Dems did when not a single one of them voted for McCarthy? People are supposed to represent their district, not blindly vote for the party. Tough sell to say they all voted their conscience and it's not just about politics.
Sure, the Republicans are a mess but let's not pretend the Dems don't have a hand in what is to come.
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(10-03-2023, 10:09 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Is that not exactly what the Dems did when not a single one of them voted for McCarthy? People are supposed to represent their district, not blindly vote for the party. Tough sell to say they all voted their conscience and it's not just about politics.
Sure, the Republicans are a mess but let's not pretend the Dems don't have a hand in what is to come.
Votes for the Speaker of the House are ALWAYS party line. The majority party chooses their person. The Democrats don't want Kevin McCarthy as Speaker. He's lied to them more than once and then when they bail him out (debt ceiling and keeping govt open) he backstabs them.
The Republicans are a mess, it is not the job of the Democrats to fix that.
Tell me...name one reason other than pettiness led to a senior legislature and Speaker emeritus being removed from her office when everyone knew she was away attending a funeral. What was so urgent it had to be done just hours after McCarthy lost his job because the MAJORITY couldn't get their act together?
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(10-03-2023, 10:15 PM)pally Wrote: Votes for the Speaker of the House are ALWAYS party line. The majority party chooses their person
As evidenced by the fact that McCarthy lost his seat because only 96% of republicans voted to keep him.
It's interesting that 96% of republicans and 0% of democrats wanted McCarthy to be speaker and he was removed because he was just too damn compromising to the left.
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(10-03-2023, 10:15 PM)pally Wrote: Votes for the Speaker of the House are ALWAYS party line. The majority party chooses their person. The Democrats don't want Kevin McCarthy as Speaker. He's lied to them more than once and then when they bail him out (debt ceiling and keeping govt open) he backstabs them.
The Republicans are a mess, it is not the job of the Democrats to fix that.
Tell me...name one reason other than pettiness led to a senior legislature and Speaker emeritus being removed from her office when everyone knew she was away attending a funeral. What was so urgent it had to be done just hours after McCarthy lost his job because the MAJORITY couldn't get their act together?
I understand being a cult and 100% of the Democrats voting in sync. What does that tell the citizens? It tells us they don't represent their districts, they get to DC and they are beholden to the DNC. Is that healthy? It may be good for politics within the DNC, but not for everyday citizens.
Time will tell if this impacts a government shutdown. If it does, it was a 100% Democrat vote to remove the speaker with a few Republicans. The Democrats also control the Senate and the White House. It appears to me if government is shutdown. todays vote played a major role in it. Were Democrats thinking about government employees today? I say not at all, so they will have no right in 6 weeks to complain if the government is shut down.
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(10-04-2023, 12:52 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I understand being a cult and 100% of the Democrats voting in sync. What does that tell the citizens? It tells us they don't represent their districts, they get to DC and they are beholden to the DNC. Is that healthy? It may be good for politics within the DNC, but not for everyday citizens.
Time will tell if this impacts a government shutdown. If it does, it was a 100% Democrat vote to remove the speaker with a few Republicans. The Democrats also control the Senate and the White House. It appears to me if government is shutdown. todays vote played a major role in it. Were Democrats thinking about government employees today? I say not at all, so they will have no right in 6 weeks to complain if the government is shut down.
They do represent their districts. Really easy. Very good chance it was democrats and independents who voted them in. When you vote do you vote for what you want? If the answer is yes (it should be), then you get why democrats didn’t vote to support a Republican speaker. They don’t want one. No need to over complicate it.
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(10-04-2023, 12:52 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I understand being a cult and 100% of the Democrats voting in sync. What does that tell the citizens? It tells us they don't represent their districts, they get to DC and they are beholden to the DNC. Is that healthy? It may be good for politics within the DNC, but not for everyday citizens.
Time will tell if this impacts a government shutdown. If it does, it was a 100% Democrat vote to remove the speaker with a few Republicans. The Democrats also control the Senate and the White House. It appears to me if government is shutdown. todays vote played a major role in it. Were Democrats thinking about government employees today? I say not at all, so they will have no right in 6 weeks to complain if the government is shut down.
Democrats didn’t bring the vote to vacate the Speakership. McCarthy’s own party did. He didn't have the votes within his own majority. Then once he was gone, Republicans had no idea what to do next so they adjourned for a week. They didn’t have a slate of candidates ready to go for another Speaker’s vote. The Democrats have a candidate. Why don’t Republicans vote for Jeffries? It is a 2 way street.
And yes if the govt shuts down in Nov it will remain the Republicans fault. If the House wants to pass appropriations on party vote alone that means they have capitulated to the extreme right’s demand of 30% or more cuts to all discretionary spending. Those bills will never pass the Senate. So either the new Speaker flat out tells Gaetz and company to f*** off he’s working with the Democrats or we’ll be back in the same place next month.
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This story is another nothing burger. The GOP will elect a new speaker and things will return to normal. Yes, government is broken but it always has been. lol
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Man, it really is amazing how much some people are willing to swallow the spin. "Representatives should represent their districts, not their parties." Well, their districts voted for a Democrat. Their districts would likely want a Democratic Speaker. Why would they vote for a Republican Speaker that is antagonistic to their positions? Why would they vote for a Republican Speaker that has lied to them, gone back on his word, and is an ineffective leader? How is it the job of Democrats to smooth over the problems in the GOP?
Well, I suppose I can understand that mindset. Democrats have been having to fix the Republican jackassery ever since FDR had to come in to clean up after Hoover. This isn't to say there haven't been some decent Republican ideas in those years and some idiot Democrats, but in general...yikes. All I'm saying. This messaging is just a continuation of a theme. I guess it's just nice to see Republican propaganda admitting to it. 
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(10-04-2023, 06:06 AM)guyofthetiger Wrote: This story is another nothing burger. The GOP will elect a new speaker and things will return to normal. Yes, government is broken but it always has been. lol
It may not matter in the end, but something that happens for the first time ever isn't exactly business as usual.
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(10-04-2023, 07:25 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Man, it really is amazing how much some people are willing to swallow the spin. "Representatives should represent their districts, not their parties." Well, their districts voted for a Democrat. Their districts would likely want a Democratic Speaker. Why would they vote for a Republican Speaker that is antagonistic to their positions? Why would they vote for a Republican Speaker that has lied to them, gone back on his word, and is an ineffective leader? How is it the job of Democrats to smooth over the problems in the GOP?
I'd say there is this one problem that they were effectively siding with people like Gaetz against the more reasonable Republicans.
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