ICE Raids

[GMDino]

I thought there was a thread on this but couldn't find it.

Anyway a month or so ago DJT said he would begin deporting "millions" of illegal immigrants (the record for a month is 400,000 under Obama).

Then he "delayed" them (national emergenyc my hiney)...probably because Pence was in Florida trying to appeal to Latino voters there.

Now they are back!

Although the "millions" is now "a million" and those are people already recommended for deportation by a judge.

But in usual Trump fashion he found a way to look like an idiot (again) to everyone except the supporters and defenders.

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-trump-ice-sweeps-warning-20190712-story.html

Quote:Trump called Oakland mayor a ‘disgrace’ for revealing ICE raids. Then he did the same thing.


When Oakland Mayor Libby Schaaf tipped residents off last year that immigration agents would be conducting enforcement operations, President Trump called her actions a “disgrace.”


A Republican congressman from Iowa proposed criminal penalties for officials in so-called sanctuary cities who make similar disclosures.


The acting Immigration and Customs Enforcement director at the time, Thomas Homan, said Schaaf was “no better than a gang lookout yelling ‘police!’ when a police cruiser comes in the neighborhood.”

Then, in the last month, Trump himself announced impending immigration operations.


“Next week ICE will begin the process of removing the millions of illegal aliens who have illicitly found their way into the United States,” Trump tweeted on June 17.



Trump later announced those operations were being postponed. But this week, sources in Washington say they are back — with ICE expected to pursue at least 2,000 immigrants beginning Sunday.


The Trump administration, it seemed, had pulled a Libby Schaaf.


Critics say the tweets and leaks have removed the element of surprise for ICE.


“I’ve never seen anything like this, where they're highlighting an operation in advance," said John Sandweg, who headed ICE under President Obama. “Those people who were in the agency criticizing the Oakland mayor, I don’t think you can credibly say there’s a distinction here between what the administration has done.”


Schaaf said as much last month: “I ... find it a bit ironic that a president who was so critical of my informing my community about the potential of a raid has himself now warned the entire nation.”
Schaaf’s office said she was unavailable for comment Thursday.


The Oakland mayor’s warning won cheers in California, where many oppose Trump’s immigration crackdown. 
When the new operations were announced a few weeks ago, many political leaders in California denounced them, with some urging those targeted to know their rights and report any abuses to the proper officials.


Some California law enforcement agencies have stressed that they are not taking part in the immigration actions.


Schaaf issued her warning last year before a sweep that ended in more than 150 arrests.


Oakland, like many California cities, has declared itself a sanctuary for those here illegally.


In slamming the mayor’s decision, Homan accused her of threatening the safety of immigration officers by publicizing operations before they happen.


"The Oakland mayor's decision to publicize her suspicions about ICE operations further increased that risk for my officers and alerted criminal aliens — making clear that this reckless decision was based on her political agenda with the very federal laws that ICE is sworn to uphold,” Homan said in a statement at the time.


Beginning this weekend, ICE is expected to pursue at least 2,000 immigrants who have missed a court appearance or been ordered removed from the country, according to reporting Thursday by the New York Times. 
The operations are expected to take place in 10 named cities across the U.S.


Matthew D. Bourke, an ICE spokesman, would not confirm the pending operations or offer further details, citing “law enforcement sensitivities and the safety and security of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement personnel.”


“As always, ICE prioritizes the arrest and removal of unlawfully present aliens who pose a threat to national security, public safety and border security,” he said in a Thursday statement. “However, all of those in violation of the immigration laws may be subject to immigration arrest, detention and — if found removable by final order — removal from the United States.”


ICE typically conducts large-scale operations three or four times during the year and generally average 40 to 50 arrests a day during larger operations, an agent previously told The Times. Those operations specifically target public safety threats, such as convicted criminals and individuals who have violated immigration laws. Last year in California, ICE conducted at least four operations that spanned several days, resulting in nearly 700 arrests.


Ninety percent of those arrested by ICE's Enforcement and Removal Operations in fiscal year 2018 had either a criminal conviction or convictions, pending criminal charges, were an ICE fugitive, or illegally reentered the country after previously being removed, according to the agency.


Immigration and Customs Enforcement fugitive operations team members knock on a door looking for a male suspect at a house in Lynwood, Calif., on June 10, 2018. (Kent Nishimura / Los Angeles Times)

Last June, agents gathered for a 5 a.m. briefing in the parking lot of a Compton shopping mall, where they reviewed the target list they had spent weeks putting together. A reporter who went on the ride along with the team was required to embargo information about the operation until it was over.


Those embargoes are typical, Sandweg said. Congressional notifications and press releases go out after operations, he added.


On the first day of such operations, agents typically are able to get most of their targets “because of the element of surprise,” Sandweg said.


“By Day 2, 3, 4, 5, word has gotten out that we’re conducting this type of operation and people are gone,” 
Sandweg said. “We knew that once word got out that the effectiveness of the operation would be limited.”


If a suspect knows where and when officers are coming, they can either avoid the situation entirely or become confrontational, said Sid Heal, a retired L.A. County sheriff’s commander and use-of-force expert.


When a plan is compromised, meaning the suspect becomes aware of it, in many situations the operation will be canceled and rescheduled, he said.


Although Heal believes Trump provided only general information about the operation, he added that “personally, I wouldn’t have done it.”


“I err on the side of safety, personally. If there is some value in using the threat of arrests to increase the compliance with the laws, I’m all for it,” Heal said. “As far as specific information, I just stay away from it.”


When Los Angeles police officers plan to serve arrest warrants or are working on investigations, it’s important to try to keep details from leaking, said Deputy Chief Robert Arcos. In the case of a dangerous suspect, officer safety could be compromised if details got out.


“We try to do our best to keep everything very close to the vest,” Arcos said. “So, the folks who need to know and have the right to know, versus kind of broadcasting ahead of time.”


When Trump first announced enforcement operations, officials, lawyers and advocates across the country — including in Los Angeles — scrambled to prepare.


The Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights of L.A. has been holding “know your rights” workshops and telling community members to come in to speak with immigration attorneys to be screened for immigration relief, said Shannon Camacho, CHIRLA’s campaign coordinator.

“Knowing ahead of time that there may be operations coming to Los Angeles … we are now preparing everybody,” she said. “That’s something that we wouldn’t have the opportunity to do if we knew about an operation after the fact or while it was happening.”

He's trying to lead by fear and intimidation...and 1/3 of American voters love it.  Sad.

[Dill]

(07-12-2019, 10:11 AM)GMDino Wrote: I thought there was a thread on this but couldn't find it.

Anyway a month or so ago DJT said he would begin deporting "millions" of illegal immigrants (the record for a month is 400,000 under Obama).

Then he "delayed" them (national emergenyc my hiney)...probably because Pence was in Florida trying to appeal to Latino voters there.

Now they are back!

Although the "millions" is now "a million" and those are people already recommended for deportation by a judge.

But in usual Trump fashion he found a way to look like an idiot (again) to everyone except the supporters and defenders.

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-trump-ice-sweeps-warning-20190712-story.html

He's trying to lead by fear and intimidation...and 1/3 of American voters love it.  Sad.

40+% is more than a third.

I think this is more "performative cruelty" than a genuine effort to get rid of undocumented immigrants.

The point is for Trump voters to see an ugly, highly visible, police state type action to show that he is going after THEM.

Dems are then "surprised" at a president who "keeps his promises." LOL

[*bfine32*]

(07-12-2019, 10:11 AM)GMDino Wrote: I thought there was a thread on this but couldn't find it.

Anyway a month or so ago DJT said he would begin deporting "millions" of illegal immigrants (the record for a month is 400,000 under Obama).

Then he "delayed" them (national emergenyc my hiney)...probably because Pence was in Florida trying to appeal to Latino voters there.

Now they are back!

Although the "millions" is now "a million" and those are people already recommended for deportation by a judge.

But in usual Trump fashion he found a way to look like an idiot (again) to everyone except the supporters and defenders.

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-trump-ice-sweeps-warning-20190712-story.html



He's trying to lead by fear and intimidation...and 1/3 of American voters love it.  Sad.

I sure hope we don't deport any Latino citizens.

As to the deportation of illegal immigrants. I'm 100% behind it. I have mixed results about announcing the results; it will most likely make it less effective, but it could also serve as a warning to those here illegally to return on their own accord and try it again the legal way, instead of getting deported and banned.

Personally, I'd like to see some sort of amnesty (we did it in combat). Come forward and admit to your illegal status and we'll get you back from where you came. Unfortunately neither side was to solve the immigration issue they just want to use it against each other. We saw it just last week.

[GMDino]

(07-12-2019, 11:39 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I sure hope we don't deport any Latino citizens.

As to the deportation of illegal immigrants. I'm 100% behind it. I have mixed results about announcing the results; it will most likely make it less effective, but it could also serve as a warning to those here illegally to return on their own accord and try it again the legal way, instead of getting deported and banned.

Personally, I'd like to see some sort of amnesty (we did it in combat). Come forward and admit to your illegal status and we'll get you back from where you came. Unfortunately neither side was to solve the immigration issue they just want to use it against each other. We saw it just last week.

The problem is that these raids seem to just sweep up everyone no matter what their stated goal/plan.

Obama sent raids for those with bad criminal records.  Fine.  If Trump did the same, fine.

But if ICE goes to pick up Joe who has multiple arrests for violent crimes and runs across Tom who doesn't even have a traffic ticket and no deportation order and then send him too I have a problem with it.

I'm not for "send them back where they came from" though.  That goes against our asylum policy.

[*bfine32*]

(07-12-2019, 11:45 AM)GMDino Wrote: The problem is that these raids seem to just sweep up everyone no matter what their stated goal/plan.

Obama sent raids for those with bad criminal records.  Fine.  If Trump did the same, fine.

But if ICE goes to pick up Joe who has multiple arrests for violent crimes and runs across Tom who doesn't even have a traffic ticket and no deportation order and then send him too I have a problem with it.

I'm not for "send them back where they came from" though.  That goes against our asylum policy.

So does crossing the border illegally.

[GMDino]

(07-12-2019, 11:50 AM)bfine32 Wrote: So does crossing the border illegally.

Which is why Trump's "handling" of people trying to legally cross is causing so many problems.

Nonetheless I'm sure you are all for "rounding THEM up" so I'll stop here.

[SunsetBengal]

Yee Haw! Round 'em up!

[*bfine32*]

(07-12-2019, 12:00 PM)GMDino Wrote:

Which is why Trump's "handling" of people trying to legally cross is causing so many problems.

Nonetheless I'm sure you are all for "rounding THEM up" so I'll stop here.

I get that sometimes following laws can be inconvenient. I'm not sure I buy "I don't like the law" as a valid reason to break one, but I'm conservative by nurture

[Dill]

(07-12-2019, 01:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I get that sometimes following laws can be inconvenient. I'm not sure I buy "I don't like the law" as a valid reason to break one, but I'm conservative by nurture

Sounds like a not so subtle attack on the POTUS.  

Trump to Congress: It’s None of Your Business if I Break the Law
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-to-congress-its-none-of-your-business-if-i-break-the-law

Trump Demands Homeland Security Secretary Who Will Break the Law
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/trump-kirstjen-nielsen-fired-homeland-illegal.html


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/04/25/trump-isnt-just-violating-norms-hes-also-breaking-law/?utm_term=.70f28989aff6

[Aquapod770]

(07-12-2019, 10:11 AM)GMDino Wrote: I thought there was a thread on this but couldn't find it.

Anyway a month or so ago DJT said he would begin deporting "millions" of illegal immigrants (the record for a month is 400,000 under Obama).

Then he "delayed" them (national emergenyc my hiney)...probably because Pence was in Florida trying to appeal to Latino voters there.

Now they are back!

Although the "millions" is now "a million" and those are people already recommended for deportation by a judge.

But in usual Trump fashion he found a way to look like an idiot (again) to everyone except the supporters and defenders.

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-trump-ice-sweeps-warning-20190712-story.html



He's trying to lead by fear and intimidation...and 1/3 of American voters love it.  Sad.

So no one should have a problem with these raids then, right? right?   













right? 

[*bfine32*]

(07-12-2019, 02:26 PM)Dill Wrote: Sounds like a not so subtle attack on the POTUS.  

Trump to Congress: It’s None of Your Business if I Break the Law
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-to-congress-its-none-of-your-business-if-i-break-the-law

Trump Demands Homeland Security Secretary Who Will Break the Law
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/trump-kirstjen-nielsen-fired-homeland-illegal.html


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/04/25/trump-isnt-just-violating-norms-hes-also-breaking-law/?utm_term=.70f28989aff6

Really a not so subtle attack on anyone who support/abets lawlessness.

As to Trump, I must admit I'm not completely versed on the parameters of Executive Privilege.

[Dill]

(07-12-2019, 03:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Really a not so subtle attack on anyone who support/abets lawlessness.

Good. With you on this one.

(07-12-2019, 03:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As to Trump, I must admit I'm not completely versed on the parameters of Executive Privilege.

He seems to be counting on that.  All of us voters need to get up to speed.

[*bfine32*]

Updates on the "raids":

They didn't happen

Speaker of the House gave illegals tips to hinder ICE in the execution of its duties

Dude tried to blow up an ICE facility because they threatened to do their job and blowhards throw around derogatory terms about the department

Only those that have received a final letter of deportation were to be targeted (aka they've already had their day in court).

[GMDino]

(07-15-2019, 02:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Updates on the "raids":

They didn't happen

Speaker of the House gave illegals tips to hinder ICE in the execution of its duties

Dude tried to blow up an ICE facility because they threatened to do their job and blowhards throw around derogatory terms about the department

Only those that have received a final letter of deportation were to be targeted (aka they've already had their day in court).

The President announced them.

Lots of groups exist to give tips on avoiding ICE.

One dude.

They were also going to grab anyone without a letter if they thought they were here illegally.

Sidenote:  Trump just wants people to be afraid.  And he's a racist. 

[*bfine32*]

(07-15-2019, 02:12 PM)GMDino Wrote: The President announced them.

Lots of groups exist to give tips on avoiding ICE.

One dude.

They were also going to grab anyone without a letter if they thought they were here illegally.

Sidenote:  Trump just wants people to be afraid.  And he's a racist. 

1. He sure did and I said it was silly to do so

2. Oh, I have no doubt there are group designed to help folks avoid apprehension from duly appointed LEOs. I'm just not sure it's a practice the Speaker of the House

3. How many does it take?

4. I would hope any LEO would question someone they expect/ have evidence of breaking the law

5. Seems the ones promoting fear is the Left. "inhumane, tearing apart families, ect...)". Your assumption of Trump is well known, I do not know the reasoning for including it here.

Anyone who have received a final deportation notice and has failed to comply should be deported. I have 0 idea the logic behind disagreeing with that.

[Aquapod770]

(07-15-2019, 02:12 PM)GMDino Wrote: The President announced them.

Lots of groups exist to give tips on avoiding ICE.

One dude.

They were also going to grab anyone without a letter if they thought they were here illegally.

Sidenote:  Trump just wants people to be afraid.  And he's a racist. 

Leave it to Dino to dismiss a violent attack as "one dude", while consistently making blanket statements about his opponents because of actions of a few. What is it you would say in this situation...Not all leftists are unstable fire-bombers, but all unstable fire-bombers are leftists? 

I mean I figured we wouldn't get a thread about the antifa nutcase. The media largely ignored it. Shocker. We've clearly got more important things to talk about. Like when America was great, how racist Trump and Tucker Carlson are, an online censorship forum, etc. But hey, it was just "one dude". Who cares right? 

[GMDino]

(07-16-2019, 09:50 AM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Leave it to Dino to dismiss a violent attack as "one dude", while consistently making blanket statements about his opponents because of actions of a few. What is it you would say in this situation...Not all leftists are unstable fire-bombers, but all unstable fire-bombers are leftists? 

I mean I figured we wouldn't get a thread about the antifa nutcase. The media largely ignored it. Shocker. We've clearly got more important things to talk about. Like when America was great, how racist Trump and Tucker Carlson are, an online censorship forum, etc. But hey, it was just "one dude". Who cares right? 

Only if the only fire bombers were leftists.  

Nonetheless the right has taken this one incident as "proof" that the left wants open borders and they care more about immigrants than us citizens.  It's a red herring in that argument.

It's a good argument against the violence in some groups that seems to be more pervasive as time goes on.  

And as it was covered extensively in the media I don't see how it was "ignored".

As to the last points (such as they are) What does Trump want/mean when he says MAGA is a fair question that he never answered. And the other two are specific comments on two spec people who said two specific things...not applied to everyone who is a member of their group.  Unless they want to stand behind the comments and defend them.  

[Aquapod770]

(07-16-2019, 10:10 AM)GMDino Wrote: And as it was covered extensively in the media I don't see how it was "ignored".

Was it though? 

A quick google search (3 pages deep) only has small internet news sites (mostly right leaning) and Fox news are the only ones who mention it. 

To be honest, I don't spend all day watching the news. Maybe CNN or NBC mentioned it briefly, but you think an article by one of those two major news organizations would pop up at least within the first 3 pages on google. 

[GMDino]

(07-16-2019, 10:17 AM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Was it though? 

A quick google search (3 pages deep) only has small internet news sites (mostly right leaning) and Fox news are the only ones who mention it. 

To be honest, I don't spend all day watching the news. Maybe CNN or NBC mentioned it briefly, but you think an article by one of those two major news organizations would pop up at least within the first 3 pages on google. 

By today (three days later) it gets replaced.  News moves fast these days and when you have a POTUS like Trump there is always a new story.

However:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/13/us/armed-man-killed-tacoma-immigration-facility/index.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/07/14/armed-man-throwing-incendiary-devices-ice-detention-center-killed-officer-involved-shooting-police-say/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-attacks/man-who-attacked-tacoma-immigration-center-was-repeat-assailant-authorities-idUSKCN1U90IB

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/police-kill-man-allegedly-attacking-immigration-prison-64316401

https://news.yahoo.com/man-dead-attacking-immigration-detention-213845312.html

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/07/13/deportation-facility-attack-man-killed-police/

Other than the first link those were all on the second page of search results for "ice facility attack".

The first page was a lot of right leaning sites asking why the left leaning sites weren't covering it.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-15-2019, 02:12 PM)GMDino Wrote: The President announced them.

Lots of groups exist to give tips on avoiding ICE.

One dude.

One dude drove a car into a group of people, killing one.  Many people found this to be significant, yourself included.  But please feel free to let us know exactly how many people have to try and kill people en masse before you consider it newsworthy.

Quote:They were also going to grab anyone without a letter if they thought they were here illegally.

Sidenote:  Trump just wants people to be afraid.  And he's a racist. 

Ahhh, you were privy to the pre-raid ICE briefings, impressive.

Sidenote: can we infer a person is racist if they say/type racist things?