(Yesterday, 01:39 AM)Dill Wrote: Well he sort of was an elected leader of a group. "Turner was a piece of shit" is a value judgment, not a "fact."
Being enslaved is no defense for killing the masters family. Hard to tell whom you side with in this "poor analogy."
Raping women and murdering children makes you an objective piece of shit. You confusion here is rather telling. As for whose side I am on, it's possible to be on none and still recognize garbage people.
Quote:Possibly. But the question for you is, would students be wrong to protest segregation anyway?
Would they be wrong about whether the weaker group were oppressed?
Maybe? Means of resistance is rather important. Thinking otherwise opens the door to all sorts of man-made horrors. Which you are clearly comfortable with.
Quote:You are stuck on 10/7. You repeatedly come back to it to condemn protests,
and deflect the comparison any international lawyer would require to assess the legality of
the occupation. It's all you got. 13k children dead? But Hamas rape!
I'm not stuck on it, but it is rather germane. Hamas has been murdering and raping thousands well outside that date though, you are correct.
Quote:Your statements are clear enough. They present your feelings as evidence and dodge accountability.
That's the issue. And you "trust" the US gov. just fine when they tell you what you want to hear.
That is finally your standard. It is emotional, not evidence-based reasoning.
Confession through projection. You trust terrorists, hence "13k dead!" I don't. I don't trust the Biden state department, but I do trust them more than Islamic murderer rapists. You don't, which is your choice. It's emotion, not evidence-based reasoning, but it is your right. Sorry, you don't get to relive your formative years, the current crop of activists is as morally bankrupt as you are now. Your glory days are gone, never to be replicated. I'd feel sorry for you if I cared at all.
(05-03-2024, 06:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Why would the students get a W for the civil rights and apartheid protests and not me?
The issue is whether they actually understand what they are protesting. Your claim was they were ignorant and "rebellious" and going through a "phase." They misrecognize oppressors and oppressed because they simply see the weaker group as "automatically" oppressed.
Post #25 on the Columbia thread: These kids view everything as either powerful or not powerful, extrapolated further in oppressor versus oppressed. So to them, Islam is an oppressed ideology by the racist and more powerful western nations.
Post #505 above: if two groups are in conflict the group that is more powerful is automatically the oppressor, and thus the bad guys, and the less powerful group is the oppressed, and thus the good
This is not especially coherent, since a weaker group in a dominated relation would "automatically" oppressed, or there would be no domination. And it's hard to see how any dominators can be the good guys, coming from any valuation universal and equal human rights. Your goal is to deny that Palestinians driven from their land and held under military occupation are really oppressed. Students don't understand how oppressors can be the "good guys" and their victims the "bad guys."
So you don't get a "W" for civil rights and apartheid protests because you have no evidence, beyond your feelings, that students only protested oppression in those cases because they thought the groups were "weaker."
You get a "W" when you provide an example of mass student protests over some group that was not oppressed, just "weaker."
(05-03-2024, 06:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This looks like willful denial of facts on the ground. You say you don't support ethnic cleansing. Apparently you are not against it, either.
Yes, Dill. When you start a war and lose it badly there are consequences. The Palestinians, and others, started shit and got their ass handed to them. If they weren't such rabid Jew haters and just let Israel chill in 1948, and beyond, they wouldn't be in this position now. I have little sympathy when the aggressors of multiple wars get their asses kicked. What country was backing them during those wars btw?
Wow.
So hundreds of thousands of Jews from Europe migrate to Palestine and violently drive Palestinians off their land,
with all the rape and murder you claim inexcusable when committed by Hamas or escaped slaves in the US,
but you conclude that Palestinians are the ones who "started shit" because they didn't let Israel "chill" in the homes they took.
"Jew hate" explains why they keep fighting for those homes and to keep what little they have left. Those driven out of their homes are the real oppressors.
And that's why Arabs are "the aggressors of multiple wars." Little wonder you don't like the UN and International Humanitarian Law.
You endorse a political order in which ethnicity legitimates state violence, and that violence trumps law and right.
(Yesterday, 02:31 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Raping women and murdering children makes you an objective piece of shit. You confusion here is rather telling. As for whose side I am on, it's possible to be on none and still recognize garbage people.
Maybe? Means of resistance is rather important. Thinking otherwise opens the door to all sorts of man-made horrors. Which you are clearly comfortable with.
If you are not confused, then I'm hoping for a clear answer to this:
would you say that in the Turner case, you recognize he is "gargbage" without taking a side, e.g, against slavery?
Would saying his violence was a consequence of his slavery be "excusing" or "mitigating" it?
Why am I "comfortable" with all sorts of man-mad horrors, when you are the one denying IHL and defending ethnic cleansing?
(Yesterday, 02:31 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm not stuck on it, but it is rather germane. Hamas has been murdering and raping thousands well outside that date though, you are correct.
Do you "feel" this or do you have any evidence for this claim. Or perhaps you can explain why you don't need it?
(Yesterday, 02:31 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Your statements are clear enough. They present your feelings as evidence and dodge accountability. That's the issue. And you "trust" the US gov. just fine when they tell you what you want to hear. That is finally your standard. It is emotional, not evidence-based reasoning.
Confession through projection. You trust terrorists, hence "13k dead!" I don't. I don't trust the Biden state department, but I do trust them more than Islamic murderer rapists. You don't, which is your choice. It's emotion, not evidence-based reasoning, but it is your right. Sorry, you don't get to relive your formative years, the current crop of activists is as morally bankrupt as you are now. Your glory days are gone, never to be replicated. I'd feel sorry for you if I cared at all.
Once again I must explain that I don't trust sources, I vet them.
Is 13,000 dead children consistent with the six months of bombing in the most densely packed area on earth? No reason to doubt that at the moment.
International observers, reporters, and professional doctors gathered into those hospitals where the dead are recorded think there is an undercount, since bodies must be brought to hospitals where their deaths are recorded and matched to census lists, but many dead are still under the rubble.
Further, the "terrorist organization" also has a track record of accurate counting in previous wars, e.g., In an analysis of health ministry death figures from the Israel-Gaza conflict in 2014, in which Gaza was bombed, and a separate record of death figures from that same year collated by Israeli human rights organisation B'Tselem, Prof Spagat found overall consistency in the reported figures. The ministry of health said 2,310 Gazans had been killed in 2014, while B'Tselem counted 2,185 deaths. The UN said 2,251 Palestinians were killed, including 1,462 civilians and Israel's foreign ministry said the 2014 war killed 2,125 Palestinians. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67347201
I also make sure to consider arguments of the pro-Israel players like the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. They claim fighter deaths are under reported, skewing casualties to include more civilians, but the don't/can't dispute that civilians are dying in the thousands as reported. https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/7168?disposition=inline .
But "trust" guides you through sources--The IDF ranks first; then Biden, the US, the State Department, the UN, and finally a "terrorist organization." The latter you categorically deny any trust. You are happy to trust the statement's definitions of terrorism and assessment of war crimes when it suits you, without further inquiry or pause over inconsistencies. When you say I "trust terrorists," as if I assess these matters the same way you do, just trusting different sources I want when I want, then that's the only "projection through confession" here.
(05-03-2024, 02:05 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Was North Vietnam less powerful than the South? Who invaded who again?
Fascinating. My father, a two and half year year Vietnam vet was good friends with a ARVN helicopter pilot who wouldn't piss in the face of a Vietnamese communist if their eyebrows were on fire. You protested a war my father lived. Anecdotal evidence being what it is, I'm giving the edge to him.
So who were the "oppressors" in that war? Apparently the vast majority of Vietnamese thought the US and the gov. of South Vietnam were. Most of the 2 million civilians who died would be of that opinion.
Is that so? A source would be nice, preferably one prior to the "reeducation camps". I've lived next to the largest community of Vietnamese diaspora in the world (Westminster, CA) since 1986, I'm willing to bet I've talked to far more of them than you ever have.
Sounds like an old fashioned Vietnam War "teach in" is needed here. To avoid trading anecdotes.
The Democratic Republic of Viet Nam, which defeated the French colonialists to become the legitimate representative of the Vietnamese people, was most certainly less powerful than the RVN puppet state, which had the might of the US behind it. That's why you don't read of the North carpet bombing the South, or about 500,000 foreign soldiers on the ground fighting with its military.
Or sources showing that the majority of the people preferred their own government over the colonial remnant you know as the RVN?
There were no polls of the Vietnamese back then, but Exhibit A here would be the US/CIA's 1955 assessment that Ho Chi Minh would win 80% of the vote if the US allowed free and fair elections. https://veteranmuseum.net/research-vietnam-war/
President Eisenhower himself acknowledged that, had the Vietnamese people been allowed to express themselves at the polls under the terms of the agreement, “‘Ho Chi Minh would have won 80 percent of the vote’–and no U.S. president wanted to lose a country to communism.”
Exhibit B would be the fact that the DRVN could send muster hundreds of thousands to fight for it for just the rice to keep them alive, while the RVN had to pay people wages to wear the uniform, and even with US air power and hundreds of thousands of US troops behind it, still could neither count on its soldiers to fight, nor inspire the loyalty of its people. If the situation were reversed, and the South were able to defeat the North with 500,000 Soviet troops fighting for it and all manner of air support, then you'd have a case. Hmm. Maybe you shouldn't get that tie with the students. This isn't really that close.
On your side, prior to re-education camps, is the minority testimony of the defeated, the resettled ARVN in Orange County.
(05-03-2024, 02:05 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: But American anti-communists would have been happy to sacrifice millions more to prevent their "oppression" by the Communists they would have elected to rule them if the US had allowed them to make their own choices in the first place.
Seeing as communism is the most murderess form of government ever devised by man that's a rather safe assumption. Are you a communist btw?
The government of Vietnam doesn't seem very "murderous" to me. It's currently a silent US ally against China in South Asian politics.
Your "safe assumption" drove our biggest and most embarrassing foreign policy disasters during the cold war, including the toppling of Mossadegh in Iran.
Rather than listening to area experts, anti-communists always already knew what Communism was about, and how Moscow was behind the rash of
anti-colonial wars in 50s and 60s. Never mind what "radical leftists" said about the history and culture of Vietnam or Guatemala or Chile or Angola. It was the same conspiracy with the same goals and same blueprint everywhere. So no need for historical/cultural context.
After 9/11, "Islam" came to fill the role of Communist conspiracy in right wing foreign policy. Deja Vue: "OF COURSE Saddam and Al Qaeda were allies. Don't listen to radical left traitors and their talk of Shia Sunni Kurdish division and the history of colonialism! And once liberated, grateful Iraqis will form an American style democracy!" Not a night goes by that Fox commentators don't remind us that IRAN is really behind the Houthi and Hamas and Hezbollah the Syrian government because they provide financial support. The less one knows about conflict in the Middle East, the more likely one is to believe that explains its multiple conflicts
No. I'm not a "Communist." But you'll agree you are an anti-Communist, right? And the more one knows about "the ideology of Islam," the less one needs to know about any Israeli "occupation" or ethnic cleansing, right?
Ahaha, anything to distract from the pro-Hamas protestors. Hey everyone, ignore the kids calling for the eradication of Israel, a single frat boy made a racist post! How excited were you when you found this shiny distraction?
(Yesterday, 08:46 AM)GMDino Wrote: The person in the photo then went sand shared a photo of a gorilla and "**** them *******" before taking it down.
"Very good people on both sides"
I chose not to post the video or that image, but you can view it here: https://x.com/SARA2001NOOR/status/1786720480197566603
Dino, your link makes ALL the "pro-genocide' protestors at that protest look like White Supremacists. LOL
Clearly that Black woman was provoking the monkey imitations until the police got her under control.
On a serious note, I put "pro-genocide" in quotation marks because, despite the obvious temptation to mimic the Right's "pro-Hamas" rhetoric, WE should not. By WE I mean those defending International Humanitarian Law and universal human rights, sometimes called "the bad guys" in this forum.
No doubt some, maybe many in that crowd, are literally pro-genocide though; indicating the pre-existing alignment in some of our racial politics
WITH Palestinian dispossession just as it aligns some of us AGAINST it. This conflict is making that alignment more visible.
(Yesterday, 12:13 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Ahaha, anything to distract from the pro-Hamas protestors. Hey everyone, ignore the kids calling for the eradication of Israel, a single frat boy made a racist post! How excited were you when you found this shiny distraction?
Why would anyone be "excited" to see this? Are you excited to see people calling for death to all Jews?
I wasn't excited at all.
It's not a "distraction" it is an example of the hatred that goes on and how people pick which side they prefer to hate and then defend it.
I don't want these things to happen...at all.
Luckily he and his fellow students have the support of a congressman.
Warning: Reading signatures may hurt your feelings.
(8 hours ago)GMDino Wrote: It's not a "distraction" it is an example of the hatred that goes on and how people pick which side they prefer to hate and then defend it.
I don't want these things to happen...at all.
Luckily he and his fellow students have the support of a congressman.
LOL "Try That in a Small Town."
In this case, one side preferred to defend human rights; the other side preferred to hate that defense,
and effectively limited the other side's exercise of free speech.
We've seen that before in Mississippi. I'm betting "both sides" have congressional support. Again.
I've got a hunch that "monkey boy" has created rep which will follow him for some time to come.
(8 hours ago)GMDino Wrote: Why would anyone be "excited" to see this? Are you excited to see people calling for death to all Jews?
I wasn't excited at all.
It's not a "distraction" it is an example of the hatred that goes on and how people pick which side they prefer to hate and then defend it.
I don't want these things to happen...at all.
Luckily he and his fellow students have the support of a congressman.
You haven't made a single post about the negative things being done and said at the numerous protests until this one. It's just interesting what finally compelled you to post about it. I guess only certain types of racism bother you.
(7 hours ago)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You haven't made a single post about the negative things being done and said at the numerous protests until this one. It's just interesting what finally compelled you to post about it. I guess only certain types of racism bother you.
You attacks are as shallow as your defense.
And you're a liar.
(04-29-2024, 11:04 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Your attempt to deflect once again fails. Why do you support protestors calling for Jews to be killed and eliminated from the face of the earth.
Are you Omar's brother/Husband?
(04-29-2024, 11:15 AM)GMDino Wrote: I do not support protestors calling for Jews to be killed and eliminated from the face of the earth. If you can find a single post where I cheered them or or said they were right please share it.
Please learn how to take a joke about the conspiracy theories behind some of these protests.
(04-30-2024, 09:24 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Very heartening to see. It rather runs contrary to your narrative thus far, but I'm sure even you would see this as a net positive. Declining to enable extremists on both sides actually makes a peaceful resolution a possibility. Take note college students.
(04-30-2024, 10:39 PM)GMDino Wrote: My narrative that the civilians don't want war and to be slaughtered? Or my narrative that the majority don't support Hamas?
Which of my narratives did that story "run contrary" to?
(05-01-2024, 09:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: Wow. That is horrible. And anyone who speaks like that is going way too far in the defense of the Palestinian people.
(05-02-2024, 08:46 AM)GMDino Wrote: Oh, based on what she said I'd agree that it does not matter where and when it was said when it comes to the argument that a few support Hamas directly.
In context of the discussion about "kids these days" it was a poor example. I simply provided the facts behind the speaker and the results of it in another country.
So no "twisting" at all.
And again I'll repeat myself that every generation thinks it is better than the next one and the one before it. There is nothing new about the protest OR the complaints and criticism of them. Nothing. Just history repeating itself...again.
(05-02-2024, 04:51 PM)GMDino Wrote: How am I on their side? Have said anything remotely like that or said they were right to say it?
Or are you just making up stuff?
Yeah, you're just making stuff up.
(05-02-2024, 05:54 PM)GMDino Wrote: Nope. I said most of what I saw was pro-civilian. But please where share the post where I denied it anyone was being pro-Hamas.
Go ahead now.
And while you're at it show where I "had issues" with the first one. Pointing out that THAT one didn't support the argument that "these kids" don't know what they're talking about isn't supporting what was said OR having an issue other than the discussion about it wasn't accurate.
That was just going back four pages.
You've kind of apologized, twice, for saying I said things I didn't...in this thread.
I doubt I'll see the trifecta but you could at least stop lying about what I post.
Warning: Reading signatures may hurt your feelings.
(5 hours ago)GMDino Wrote: You attacks are as shallow as your defense.
And you're a liar.
That was just going back four pages.
You've kind of apologized, twice, for saying I said things I didn't...in this thread.
I doubt I'll see the trifecta but you could at least stop lying about what I post.
Oh my, someone got a little heated. Yes, I apparently missed one throwaway line in one of your posts. My point stands, you haven't made a single post about the negative things being done and said at these protests until that post. As for confusing you and Dill, it's hard to tell you guys apart.
(05-02-2024, 05:54 PM)GMDino Wrote: Nope. I said most of what I saw was pro-civilian. But please where share the post where I denied it anyone was being pro-Hamas.
Go ahead now.
And while you're at it show where I "had issues" with the first one. Pointing out that THAT one didn't support the argument that "these kids" don't know what they're talking about isn't supporting what was said OR having an issue other than the discussion about it wasn't accurate.
(5 hours ago)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Oh my, someone got a little heated. Yes, I apparently missed one throwaway line in one of your posts. My point stands, you haven't made a single post about the negative things being done and said at these protests until that post. As for confusing you and Dill, it's hard to tell you guys apart.
Your inability to determine my feelings or intent would be funny if you didn't use to try and make yourself seem smart.
You were wrong/lying.
I provided multiple incidences to prove you are wrong/lying...and you doubled down.
Again, just say what you want. You called Dill an anti-semite. Go ahead and call me one if you want. Being biased and wrong seems to your calling card around here/.
You continue break forum rules by going after posters and specifically admitting you do it. No wonder this subforum dies slowly.
I'd suggest you get back to the topic before you get another thread closed.
I am not on the side of wanting to kill either side. I am not supporting Hamas. I am not supporting the racist in my post.
Simple. Even you should understand.
Warning: Reading signatures may hurt your feelings.
(4 hours ago)GMDino Wrote: Your inability to determine my feelings or intent would be funny if you didn't use to try and make yourself seem smart.
You were wrong/lying.
I provided multiple incidences to prove you are wrong/lying...and you doubled down.
Again, just say what you want. You called Dill an anti-semite. Go ahead and call me one if you want. Being biased and wrong seems to your calling card around here/. You continue break forum rules by going after posters and specifically admitting you do it. No wonder this subforum dies slowly.
I'd suggest you get back to the topic before you get another thread closed.
I am not on the side of wanting to kill either side. I am not supporting Hamas. I am not supporting the racist in my post.
Simple. Even you should understand.
A reminder to Dino: Except for COVID, Forum rules do not require posters to respect or even acknowledge evidence.
Nor do they require that posters adhere to the same standards by which they judge others.
Nor do they require that accusations be supported with proof.
SSF: "You haven't made a single post about the negative things being done and said at the numerous protests until this one."
"Certain types of racism don't bother you."
(4 hours ago)Dill Wrote: A reminder to Dino: Except for COVID, Forum rules do not require posters to respect or even acknowledge evidence.
Nor do they require that posters adhere to the same standards by which they judge others.
Nor do they require that accusations be supported with proof.
SSF: "You haven't made a single post about the negative things being done and said at the numerous protests until this one."
"Certain types of racism don't bother you."
Dino: "Here's a ton of counter evidence."
SSF: "My point stands."
That aside, of course I stand by it. He hasn't made a single post about the pro-Palestine protestors. He's responded to posts about them. He's condemned rhetoric that goes over the line, while also mitigating it by pointing out, "oh, that's in Canada". But he hasn't made a single post about the negative things being said and done by the pro-Palestinian protestors. Not a single article, not a single incident, not a single video. I don't even have to look, he did all my work for me. But one white frat kid goes over the line and makes a racist gesture, he's on it like stink on shit. Like I said, interesting.
There are some interesting parts to this one. The policies regarding tents used to justify the police action in this situation had included exceptions for recreational tents. However, as of Saturday morning, they had been changed without notice. I have seen the screenshots and documents; not a good look.
Another thing that wasn't a good look was a local journalist observing the action looked over to see a VSP officer laughing at one of the protestors being injured in the fray. When he saw the journalist looking at him he commented "this is so entertaining."
My last thought on this is that the officer wasn't the only one laughing or cheering at this occurring. There were a large number of people observing the police action that were cheering at the violence of it. I find it disheartening that anyone could find joy in such violence, no matter who it is. I just don't have that in me.
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