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(08-31-2018, 07:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Every single person at this event was invited because he/she was an evangelical leader. Other than Trump staff and assistants the event was limited just to evangelical leaders. Do you dispute this is true.
Yes, but only because I don't know. Please provide the evidence for this and I'll gladly conceed that the only invitees were evangelical leaders and that they were invited because they were evangelical leaders.
(08-31-2018, 07:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Every single person at this event supports Trump. If they did not then they would not have been invited in the first place. Do you dispute this is true?
Yes. I know many truly Godly evangelical leaders and people who would go to an event like this regardless of whether they support the person hosting to try to have a voice or an effect or to have a dialogue or to be an example of showing God's love to the godless or a variety of other reasons that don't indicate a support for who the person is.
Case-in-point: my parents used to be pastors in a leadership capacity in New York some years ago and were invited to go to a similar event held by then-Senator Hillary Clinton. My parents - conservatives who never voted for Clinton - still went, not to support Clinton, but because they felt it was the Christian thing to do.
(08-31-2018, 07:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Trump is a liar, a crooked businessman, and has cheated on all three of his wives. Do you dispute this is true?
Nope.
(08-31-2018, 07:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I remember you tried this same lame logic to prove that there was no white privilege in the Jim Crow south because some white people were poor. I am starting to feel a little embarrassed for you.
Well, thanks, that's not necessary. But, please continue the personal attacks. While you do that, I'm just going to sit here waiting for you to post your "bunch of links" that prove that every single evangelical leader that went to this event is a hypocrit. 
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(09-07-2018, 12:38 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Absolutely none of those links proves that even 1 evangelical leader is a hypocrit, let alone that ALL of them are. All you've proven is that there was an event that was hosted by Trump whom invited evangelical leaders, none of which I disputed.
Every evangelical there supported Trump.
Every evangelical there claimed to support Trump for moral reasons.
Trumps morals are garbage. He cheats on all his wives. He was a crooked businessman. he is a compulsive liar.
Still not sure which one of those points you dispute. Seems to me you are back to your old lame ploy of posting NOTHING to support your position and then asking me to prove a negative.
Sad thing is that you don't see how pathetic it is of you, and avowed Christian, to act like you have won some huge victory when you don't have a single scrap of evidence to support your claim. The overwhelming evidence is that they are all hypocrites, but you get all excited because you pretend there was one person there who was not a hypocrite even though there is zero evidence to support the existence of this imaginary honorable evangelical.
Same as the old "Jim Crow south was not racist because there were some poor black people." You can strut and brag about how you won that argument but everyone else thinks it is silly. But I guess if you live in a pretend world then you can be satisfied with your pretend opinion that there was an honorable evangelical at that meeting.
Congratulations. Call a prayer meeting to spread the good news. If you pretend something then it makes it true.
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(09-07-2018, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Every evangelical there supported Trump.
Every evangelical there claimed to support Trump for moral reasons.
Prove it. This is what I've asked and you have continued to do anything BUT prove it, including attack me personally.
(09-07-2018, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Still not sure which one of those points you dispute.
I don't know how to make it any clearer. Try this: read the words that I write than respond to those words - not the words you THINK I wrote, but the ones that I actually wrote.
That may help clear up your confusion.
(09-07-2018, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Seems to me you are back to your old lame ploy of posting NOTHING to support your position and then asking me to prove a negative.
Wait, what? I have not asked you to prove a negative. I've asked you to back up your claim. You continue to not do so.
(09-07-2018, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sad thing is that you don't see how pathetic it is of you, and avowed Christian, to act like you have won some huge victory when you don't have a single scrap of evidence to support your claim.
1. Never claimed victory
2. I'm not the one making a claim and not supporting it. That would be YOU
(09-07-2018, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The overwhelming evidence is that they are all hypocrites,
You say the evidence is overwhelming yet you continually fail to post ANY.
(09-07-2018, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: but you get all excited because you pretend there was one person there who was not a hypocrite even though there is zero evidence to support the existence of this imaginary honorable evangelical.
Where was I excited? Where did I pretend there was one person that was not a hypocrite? I was offering up a possibilty; one based in personal experience.
(09-07-2018, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Same as the old "Jim Crow south was not racist because there were some poor black people." You can strut and brag about how you won that argument but everyone else thinks it is silly. But I guess if you live in a pretend world then you can be satisfied with your pretend opinion that there was an honorable evangelical at that meeting.
 More bullshit. I guess it's completely impossible for you to go one thread without eventually making shit up.
Either post your evidence or do us all a favor and take your Christian bigotry elsewhere. Thanks.
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(09-07-2018, 06:40 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Prove it. This is what I've asked and you have continued to do anything BUT prove it, including attack me personally.
I don't know how to make it any clearer. Try this: read the words that I write than respond to those words - not the words you THINK I wrote, but the ones that I actually wrote.
That may help clear up your confusion.
Wait, what? I have not asked you to prove a negative. I've asked you to back up your claim. You continue to not do so.
1. Never claimed victory
2. I'm not the one making a claim and not supporting it. That would be YOU
You say the evidence is overwhelming yet you continually fail to post ANY.
Where was I excited? Where did I pretend there was one person that was not a hypocrite? I was offering up a possibilty; one based in personal experience.
More bullshit. I guess it's completely impossible for you to go one thread without eventually making shit up.
Either post your evidence or do us all a favor and take your Christian bigotry elsewhere. Thanks.
Not clear what your point is anymore.
I was trying to have a discussion about the hypocrite evangelicals that Trump invited to the White House. Seems pretty clear to me they are a huge crowd of hypocrites because they all claim to support Trump based on moral grounds (or at least every single one mentioned in any story anywhere about them) while Trumps morals are extremely low.
You seem to disagree with me, but I am not sure why. Do you have any evidence that there was single person at that function that did not support Trump based on moral grounds. You seem to be hung up on my inability to list each and every person and their own personal beliefs. I will admit that I can't do that. But I have posted tons of info to back up my position that they are all hypocrites
Do you have any evidence to suggest that anyone there did not support Trump based on moral grounds? If so I'd like to see it. Otherwise I am through with this. I have posted tons of info on the people who were there and what they said. If you want to discuss any of those facts that would be great. If you want to go on about how you can pretend that some of them did not then leave me out of it. I don't play pretend. I have posted tons of stories about these hypocrites. If you have anything to contradict that then let me see the links.
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(09-07-2018, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I was trying to have a discussion about the hypocrite evangelicals that Trump invited to the White House. Seems pretty clear to me they are a huge crowd of hypocrites because they all claim to support Trump based on moral grounds (or at least every single one mentioned in any story anywhere about them) while Trumps morals are extremely low.
Your view of this is very shallow Fred.
We know from Scripture (and experience) that evangelical Christians are guilty of sin, and we know from Scripture that we must love sinners — including hypocrites and adulterers — within the body of Christ and without. Hypocrisy is not the one sin that removes humans from the category of sinners whom we are commanded to love.
Some evangelicals didn’t vote, some voted for a third-party candidate, and many chose Trump because they hoped he would do the most good or the least damage — not because they viewed him as sinless.
Perhaps this commentary will help enlighten you.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/letters/ct-donald-trump-stormy-daniels-evangelicals-sin-20180316-story.html
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(09-07-2018, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not clear what your point is anymore.
That's not my fault. Stick to the things I say and don't make shit up and you won't have this problem.
My point is that I don't think that all the evangelical leaders that went to the even in the OP are hypocrites.
(09-07-2018, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I was trying to have a discussion about the hypocrite evangelicals that Trump invited to the White House. Seems pretty clear to me they are a huge crowd of hypocrites because they all claim to support Trump based on moral grounds (or at least every single one mentioned in any story anywhere about them) while Trumps morals are extremely low.
I understand that. But you CLAIMED they were all hypocrites, not that you thought they were all hypocrites. Heck, even I could believe most of them are, but all of them?
(09-07-2018, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You seem to disagree with me, but I am not sure why.
It's pretty easy to anyone who read whats written and not the shit they make up in their head. I don't believe ALL of them are hypocrites because I know from personal experience that sometimes people attend an event for a variety of reasons other than full 100% support of the host.
(09-07-2018, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Do you have any evidence that there was single person at that function that did not support Trump based on moral grounds.
Again, it's not my imperative. I'm not the one making a claim. YOU did. It was incumbent upon you to provide evidence. You did not other than your opinion.
(09-07-2018, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You seem to be hung up on my inability to list each and every person and their own personal beliefs. I will admit that I can't do that.
I know you can't. You made a claim that you couldn't possibly know for a fact. I'm just surprised it took this long to get you to admit it.
(09-07-2018, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But I have posted tons of info to back up my position that they are all hypocrites
You've posted nothing but opinion (aside from establishing the fact that this event took place and evangelical leaders were invited - two facts which were not in dispute). And you once told me something about opinions and their value in the midst of a debate. I forget your exact wording, but I'm sure you remember what I'm talking about.
(09-07-2018, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Do you have any evidence to suggest that anyone there did not support Trump based on moral grounds? If so I'd like to see it.
Do you have any evidence to suggest that everyone there did support Trump based on moral grounds? If so, I've been ASKING to see it for some time now.
(09-07-2018, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have posted tons of info on the people who were there and what they said. If you want to discuss any of those facts that would be great.
Facts? As I just said, the only facts you've posted were that an event was hosted by Trump and evangelical leaders were there. The rest is just opinion and supposition. The rest has been your opinion that you've repeatedly tried to pass off as fact. I've repeatedly ask for proof and you've repeatedly failed to provide any.
(09-07-2018, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have posted tons of stories about these hypocrites.
And a grand total of zero of them have proven they are hypocrites, let alone that ALL of them are.
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(09-11-2018, 04:25 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't believe ALL of them are hypocrites because I know from personal experience that sometimes people attend an event for a variety of reasons other than full 100% support of the host.
Not an event that is by invite only where the person doing the inviting only invites people who support him.
If there were no hypocrites there then it does not matter because not a single "non-hypocrite" has made his opinion known. They are supporting Trump by their silence, so they are actually still being hypocritical.
I think I know what the issue really is, so let me ask you this. Do you think ANYONE who claims to support Trump based on moral convictions is a hypocrite? I believe the reason you don't think there were any hypocrites there is because you believe that there is nothing hypocritical at all about a Christian supporting Trump based on moral convictions. If you want to have that discussion then lets just drop this "I am pretending that Trump invited someone who did not support him." game and discuss the real issue.
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LOL, Trump plays those evangelicals for the fools they are. 
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(09-11-2018, 05:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not an event that is by invite only where the person doing the inviting only invites people who support him.
Yes, even to those events.
(09-11-2018, 05:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I believe the reason you don't think there were any hypocrites there
I never said I don't think there were any hypocrites there. I said I don't think ALL of them were hypocrites.
(09-11-2018, 05:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you want to have that discussion then lets just drop this "I am pretending that Trump invited someone who did not support him." game and discuss the real issue.
I'd be more than glad to have a discussion, but only with someone who doesn't make shit up about what the other person said. Thanks.
(09-11-2018, 05:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Do you think ANYONE who claims to support Trump based on moral convictions is a hypocrite?
I saved this for last because - despite the bullshit context - it is a decent discussion question. To answer that, let me first ask what you mean by "moral convictions"? That asked, if an anti-abortion person were to support Trump because they believe he's anti-abortion, I don't see what's hypocritical about that. If a Christian were to support Trump because Trump is a Christian, well, I'd probably question their intelligence. Beyond that I don't know if I'd necessarily say they were a hypocrite, but I don't know if I'd say they were NOT a hypocrite either; it would depend on what, outside of his claim that he's a Christian, that makes them think he's a Christian.
To directly answer the question asked, if ANYONE who thinks of themselves as of having high moral standards supports Trump because of Donald's morals, yes, I would think of them as being a hypocrite.
Now, that I've answered your question (in 2 different ways), please answer mine:
Do you think that anyone who claims to support a particular politician agrees with that politician 100% in absolutely everything? Or is it possible to support a politician but to do so because there is no alternative or you think the alternative is worse? I'm not saying this is the case of everyone at the event (or even most) but you don't think it's even possible that a few maybe support Trump but only because the alternative was Hillary?
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Impressed with how he handled the journalist. Christian leaders reward him with a visit.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/saudi-arabia-s-crown-princes-hosts-christian-evangelical-leaders-n930201?cid=sm_npd_ms_tw_ma
Jesus Wept. If he's got any tears left after Evangelicals continue to destroy Christianity, and distort it's teachings.
Trump is not our moral compass, and the Saudi Prince isn't worthy of the praise. This is a disgrace.
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(09-12-2018, 02:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I saved this for last because - despite the bullshit context - it is a decent discussion question. To answer that, let me first ask what you mean by "moral convictions"? That asked, if an anti-abortion person were to support Trump because they believe he's anti-abortion, I don't see what's hypocritical about that. If a Christian were to support Trump because Trump is a Christian, well, I'd probably question their intelligence.
Makes sense to me.
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(08-28-2018, 01:31 PM)Millhouse Wrote: We get you dont like Trump, but this is just a way over the top reaction to Trump dining with some Evangelicals.
I mean cmon, seriously. After all the bs the Catholic Church has pulled over the centuries through present day, some Evangelicals meeting with Trump will end credibility?
You have to have credibility to begin with to lose it. And I have not met an actual christian in my entire life. There probably has not been a legitimate "Christian" in 2018 years.. or soon after.
The best part is how people can justify in their head how drinking wine out of a golden chalice in a multi million dollar church etc, is in any way following the teachings of jesus christ. Its willful ignorance to the umpteenth degree.
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(09-12-2018, 02:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: if an anti-abortion person were to support Trump because they believe he's anti-abortion, I don't see what's hypocritical about that.
Because true Christians don't depend on the government or mans law to correct a problem.
You are no more going to end abortion with a law than you are going to save souls by making a law saying everyone has to accept Christ as their savior.
There is no where in the Bible where God tells his people to carry out his wishes by using some asshole politician. In fact, depending on a politician and mans law actually shows a lack of faith on the part of Christians.
"Well we can't stop abortion by depending on prayer and the power of our God. So lets depend on Donald Trump to do what our lord can not."
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(11-05-2018, 04:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because true Christians don't depend on the government or mans law to correct a problem.
You are no more going to end abortion with a law than you are going to save souls by making a law saying everyone has to accept Christ as their savior.
There is no where in the Bible where God tells his people to carry out his wishes by using some asshole politician. In fact, depending on a politician and mans law actually shows a lack of faith on the part of Christians.
Maybe if we petition the government now to be pro-Jesus it'll make up for the time we insisted the government kill Jesus?
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