Jim Turner comments

[Bengalfan4life27c]

We have faced 3 Great Dlines relax. If Jags dominate us up front then I will be concerned. I actually think all 3 are better than Ravens as well. Fletcher Cox was an absolute animal last game. He was probably their MVP had they won.

[*ochocincos*]

We may not get to see Turner gone until Taylor is gone.
If this team doesn't start winning, get rid of them both (and Anarumo).

[Big Boss]

The Jaguars held their own against the Colts and Titans. This is not going to be a cake-walk game.

[Whatever]

(10-01-2020, 12:49 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I just checked Bobby Harts PFF score at it's 65 for the year.  Jonah, I believe was, 66.

Did PFF change their rating system?  Because the way it used to work was these would have put them smack damn in the middle of a "backup" grade.

I'm pretty sure 60-69 is backup, starter is 70-84, I think 84-89 is like Pro Bowl, and 90-100 is elite.  And I think anything under 60 is replaceable.

So unless something has changed, Bobby Hart is currently clocking somewhere around the level you would expect for 48th best RT in the league.

To the person who claimed it, how is that average, or slightly below?  He needs to be at like a 75-77 for that to be true, would he not?

It changed.  60-69 is considered an average starter now.  50-59 is a below average starter and <49 is a backup.  Ryan Ramcyk was their highest rated T last year and he was only rated 91.

No matter how we slice it, Hart is our 2nd highest rated OL right now, anyways. Turner isn't going to bury his 2nd best guy in the media.

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-01-2020, 01:22 PM)Whatever Wrote: It changed.  60-69 is considered an average starter now.  50-59 is a below average starter and <49 is a backup.  Ryan Ramcyk was their highest rated T last year and he was only rated 91.

No matter how we slice it, Hart is our 2nd highest rated OL right now, anyways.  Turner isn't going to bury his 2nd best guy in the media.

Well, I officially just lost all faith in PFF.

There is no way you can grade out Bobby Hart to an average level starter right now.

[phil413]

There should have been more resources used on the OL, even at the sake of being worse on defense. Being frustrated that nobody is buying the spin that Hart isn't part of the problem doesn't solve anything. We get it Turner, you have job security and don't have to perform, don't run our noses in it.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-01-2020, 09:08 AM)Au165 Wrote: Hart and Jonah are actually graded about the same by PFF and are both considered right around average to just slightly below average starting tackles. It is really the guards who are getting us completley killed right now. Even if you hate PFF it's not like Turner is the only one who thinks there are bigger issues on our line than Bobby Hart.

Overall they're graded about the same but there's a huge difference in how it breaks down. Most of Hart's grade is due to run blocking, where his passpro is poor and Jonah is the opposite. 

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(10-01-2020, 01:30 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Well, I officially just lost all faith in PFF.

There is no way you can grade out Bobby Hart to an average level starter right now.

Jordan and whoever has replaced XSF whether that be Price or Johnson has made everyone look worse. 5 of the 8 sacks Sunday were on Burrow. Fletcher Cox was a monster he was supposed to be banged up.

[Wes Mantooth]

I've actually never seen Jim Turner, but the picture I have in my head is Todd Packer from The Office.

The stories about him, along with all of the quotes, put this picture in my head:

[Au165]

(10-01-2020, 12:49 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I just checked Bobby Harts PFF score at it's 65 for the year.  Jonah, I believe was, 66.

Did PFF change their rating system?  Because the way it used to work was these would have put them smack damn in the middle of a "backup" grade.

I'm pretty sure 60-69 is backup, starter is 70-84, I think 84-89 is like Pro Bowl, and 90-100 is elite.  And I think anything under 60 is replaceable.

So unless something has changed, Bobby Hart is currently clocking somewhere around the level you would expect for 48th best RT in the league.

To the person who claimed it, how is that average, or slightly below?  He needs to be at like a 75-77 for that to be true, would he not?

There is what they say a position grade means and then there is the reality of how their grades are actually assigned. While they say a certain grade makes you an "average starter", I am looking at all grades of starting tackles in the league and looking at where their scores actually rate to the scores given out not what the score is supposed to mean.

Jonah Williams and Bobby Hart are each the 19th highest rated starting tackle at their respective position. So in context, yes they are average to just below average starting tackles in the NFL right now. The state of offensive line throughout the league is bad which I keep trying to tell everyone. The bigger issue is our interrior O line which is the worst as a group in the league.

[*pally*]

Turner was working one on one with Alex Redmond today

[Yojimbo]

(10-01-2020, 04:04 PM)pally Wrote: Turner was working one on one with Alex Redmond today

Like he isn’t bad enough already.

[Bengalitis]

Playing the best ball of his career, for college level is what he meant I'm sure. Definitely not for the NFL.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(10-01-2020, 09:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 15 pressures given up by Hart according to PFF. Most in the league. He’s also given up 10 hurries. 2nd most of any OT in the league.

It just happens our guards are also terrible. Price might be even worse than Ogbuehi honestly. This OL is an absolute disaster. At least Jonah has an excuse though, as it’s his first season of actually playing.

I believe Hart has also faced the most passing plays of any RT in the league.

They've run nearly twice as many passing plays as the likes of the Eagles and Ravens.

I'm not saying that he's good btw, only that that's not necessarily the stat to make the point you are trying to make.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-01-2020, 10:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s also pretty hilarious that Turner talks about one of his players being “picked on”

Just no self awareness whatsoever...

Reminds me of Piano Man's "witch hunt" comments about Russell Bodine....

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-01-2020, 12:49 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I just checked Bobby Harts PFF score at it's 65 for the year.  Jonah, I believe was, 66.

Did PFF change their rating system?  Because the way it used to work was these would have put them smack damn in the middle of a "backup" grade.

I'm pretty sure 60-69 is backup, starter is 70-84, I think 84-89 is like Pro Bowl, and 90-100 is elite.  And I think anything under 60 is replaceable.

So unless something has changed, Bobby Hart is currently clocking somewhere around the level you would expect for 48th best RT in the league.

To the person who claimed it, how is that average, or slightly below?  He needs to be at like a 75-77 for that to be true, would he not?

65 is still kind of green, more of an olive green but approaching yellow on their grading scale. 

If you set the minimum snaps at 50% of max (that being the player who has played the most snaps), you get a list of 64 Tackles that meet that criteria. Players #32 and #33 have grades in the high 60's--69.5 and 68.7

Those guys would be considered "average", by that list. Williams is #36 and Hart is #40. 

Quick EDIT:
If i reset the list for pass blocking only, the #32 and #33 guys are graded 72.6 and 72.2. On that list, Williams is #37 and Hart is #53

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-01-2020, 04:52 PM)Wyche Wrote: Piano Man's

This never gets less funny.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-01-2020, 01:30 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Well, I officially just lost all faith in PFF.

There is no way you can grade out Bobby Hart to an average level starter right now.

Don't know if you saw another recent post of mine but the "overall" score is not indicative of how well he pass blocks. His run blocking grade is what is allowing his overall grade to "look so good", to use that term loosely. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-01-2020, 04:58 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: This never gets less funny.

It's a personal fave of mine.....

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-01-2020, 05:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: It's a personal fave of mine.....

I prefer the far less used, yet still pretty apt, Ketchuphead.