Juneteenth and the lack of black lives in US curricula

[fredtoast]

(06-23-2020, 01:33 PM)Dill Wrote: "They have to get over that" doesn't seem like much of a program.  And quite unlikely to work without some better understanding of why "pimping whores" should be attractive to, seriously what, maybe .01% of the total population of African Americans in the U.S.? Less?

Your framing of these social problems seems rather reductive, given the easy comparison is to "some white people back when" followed by  a wag of the finger.

And here is a perfect example of what I was talking about.

Lots of black women have fought hard against the influence of "pimping" in black culture, but now we have some white guy saying it is no problem because we can't say anything bad about black people.

Educate yourself.

https://womensenews.org/2003/11/experts-hottest-hip-hop-glorifies-pimping/

According to the Recording Industry Association of America, hip hop–the macho subculture of rappers, graffiti artists, and break dancers that began on New York’s mean streets in the 70s–became the second-most popular music genre, with a 13.8 percent share of all music purchases in 2002. The music and its associated products are marketed to teens of all races, the fastest growing segment of thepopulation, according to the U.S. CensusBureau.

None of which pleases Rachel Lloyd, executive director and founder of Girls Educational and Mentoring Services in New York City, a four-year-old mentoring agency for girls and young women between 13 and 21 who are at risk of sexual exploitation.


“Just about every hip-hop song has a reference to pimping,” protests Lloyd.  Given the unabashed and almost respectful treatment that hip hop gives to pimping and prostitution, Lloyd considers hip hop one of the threats–along with poverty and single-parent homes–facing the girls she mentors.


Hip hop’s critics say its style, language and mores are working to repackage and popularize the traditionally reviled profession of pimping. And the result is that more girls are getting pulled into the “life.”  Bakari Kitwana, author of “The Hip Hop Generation: Young Blacks and the Crisis in African American Culture,” and the upcoming “Why White Kids Love Hip Hop,” believes that some artists, albeit not all, give their youthful fans the idea that sexual trafficking is cool.


“There are certain commercially viable hip-hop artists that sensationalize certain behaviors and then position it as a part of hip hop,” says Kitwana, a former executive editor of The Source, a leading hip hop magazine. “Because of their influence, it has become an issue.”


Dr. Tracy Sharpley-Whiting, chair of the Africana Studies Program at Hamilton College in Clinton, N.Y., agrees. “The more hedonistic versus the more progressive forms of hip hop get promoted,” says Sharpley-Whiting.


 what is becoming more commonplace, she says, is for girls not to think of pimping or prostitution as sexually exploitative. For them, she says, it’s an activity that hip hop has glamorized by an association with materialism and success in the form of flashy dress, money and fine cars.


A counselor at the school where the pimping incident occurred agrees. “They don’t have a good understanding of what it’s about,” the counselor says. “They don’t understand the danger of it.”

Pro-pimping cues are explicit in some of the most commercially successful hip hop.  One of the most popular songs today is “P.I.M.P” by rapper 50 Cent, who, according to the New York City hip hop radio station, HOT 97, earned $18 million last year. Featured on his compact disc, “Get Rich or Die Tryin,” the song talks explicitly about sending women out to solicit sex for money:

“B ** ch hit that track, catch a date, come a’ paid the kid. Look baby this is simple. You f**ing with me, you f**ing with a P -I -M -P.”


The song’s video–which features rapper Snoop Dogg–has an unidentified member of the group “walking” two women on leashes. In August, during the MTV Music Video Awards, 50 Cent and Snoop Dogg performed “P.I.M.P” before a live audience. Girls on leashes were once again featured and the rappers were joined on stage by Bishop Don Magic Juan, a real life former pimp who also serves as advisor and touring mate to Snoop Dogg.



Pimping has even spawned a new energy drink, Pimp Juice, owned and marketed by rapper Nelly, which will hit stores nationwide this month. Then, there is “Lil’ Pimp,” an animated feature film to be distributed by Sony Pictures.

“Lil’ Pimp” tells the story of a 9-year-old white boy who abandons his suburban enclave after he’s introduced to the world of pimping by “master pimp” Fruit Juice and “working girl” Sweet Chiffon. The film which features the voices of Lil’ Kim, Ludacris and actors Bernie Mac and William Shatner, makes pimping seem fun and harmless.



Lloyd finds these attempts to legitimize pimping distressing.

“It’s out of control. Some girls who come into the agency like the song ‘P.I.M.P’,” she fumed. “These are girls who have been raped, on the street, and/or incarcerated. They are girls who know the life on one hand and yet are immune and accept the images. We’re trying to educate girls and help them get out (of the life) and we’re fighting against a media tide.”

[Dill]

(06-23-2020, 01:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And here is a perfect example of what I was talking about.

Lots of black women have fought hard against the influence of "pimping" in black culture, but now we have some white guy saying it is no problem because we can't say anything bad about black people.

Educate yourself.

Well this white guy has said we ought not to take recent fragments of urban popular culture and call them "black culture." 

The inference to "it is no problem because we can't say anything bad about black people" is wholly unwarranted by any of my statements, which have so far been largely historical/analytical.

And how does Lloyd's example support your version of US/Black history and not mine, since neither of us thinks "pimpin' hos" a positive lifestyle?
Our disagreement is about the origins of such a subculture, and therefore how it might be addressed.

Your article also references Sharply-Whiting. Few people have delved more deeply into the historical and psychological motivations of "pimp rap," as Sharply-Whiting, examining her own conflicted relationship thereto. But though I respect her work, even she is on some points subject to the same critique you are--detachment of current power dynamics from their historical development. And a failure to suggest how negative definitions of black women might be effectively challenged out side of college classrooms.

[BmorePat87]

(06-23-2020, 01:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So neither one of you are disagreeing that a large portion of black culture glorifies "thug life" and gun violence?  I never said it was "all" of black culture.  But you guys are obviously just trying to dodge the issue.

I am willing to admit that there is racism in the white culture despite John Brown being a white man and a long list of white people who fought for civil rights.

Are either of you willing to admit that the Rap and Hip-hop culture don't have a problem with promoting thug life, misogyny, and gun violence?  And I know that white rock stars have glorified drug use, but the Rap/Hip-hop industry is the ONLY industry controlled by the black community.  It is a much bigger influence in the black society than rock music is in white culture.  Rap music moguls are seen as the industrial giants in the black community.

I am 100% disagreeing with the assertion that a large portion of black culture glorifies those things.

I am very willing to admit that there are genres of rap that promote crime, misogyny, and violence, but I do not see it as the largest representation or influencer of black culture.

I base this off of my experiences. That includes growing up with black, latino, and asian friends in a very diverse neighborhoods and attending schools that were minority-majority. That also includes now working in the high school I went to that's 33% black, 26% white, 18% Asian, and 17% Latino. We have a large immigrant population too, including students from Asia, Africa, and Latin America.

My perspective is also influenced by currently living in predominantly Black working to middle class neighborhood where less than 10% of the residents are white. 

I see black culture everywhere I am and in very different contexts. This by no means makes me an expert on it, but I have to reject the gross generalizations being made based on my experiences. I have enough self awareness of my experiences and perspective to know that I cannot make declarative statements about a culture that I am not a part of, but there's no evidence in my experiences and continued experience that would support this.