Kids Protest thier own Graduation

[fredtoast]

(05-22-2017, 12:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Every political group thinks they know what is best for the world, but those liberal/progressives sure do sound awesome.

Only "awesome" if you are in favor of womens suffrage, the civil rights act, and equal protection under the law for all citizens.

All of which were strongly opposed by conservatives.

[Belsnickel]

(05-22-2017, 12:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said I just wanted other's views on it. Not surprised at all which side of the coin they fell on.

Eh, I felt the same way about it when Obama faced (much more) opposition to his speaking there 8 years ago. There were vocal protestors, planes flown with banners, a boycott, students that decorated their mortarboards in a specific manner in protest, all sorts of things. Apart from those that yelled during the ceremony in protest, I have no problems with any of it (th eplanes didn't fly during commencement, IIRC).

Personally, and I've had this discussion, the mortarboard decoration is my favorite avenue. Decorating it in such a way that when they are speaking you can either turn around or bow your head and the decoration will be displayed to the speaker. Enough people doing it is a striking effect and it makes a good statement.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-22-2017, 01:08 PM)GMDino Wrote:

Since it's a Catholic institution, can I assume they walk out whenever someone speaks who is at odds with those values?

[GMDino]

(05-22-2017, 01:35 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Since it's a Catholic institution, can I assume they walk out whenever someone speaks who is at odds with those values?

See my earlier post about Obama.

Edit: And being a Catholic school does in no way mean most students are Catholic.

[fredtoast]

Walking out or turning your back on the speaker is the best way to protest. Sends a message, but at the same time does not stop people from hearing the speech.

It is always okay to protest, but you have to let the other side speak.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-22-2017, 01:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: See my earlier post about Obama.

Edit:  And being a Catholic school does in no way mean most students are Catholic.

So they only pick part of Notre Dame's ethos and mission to be committed to?  

And I would never agree that it's OK to walk out on Obama when he was giving the commencement speech. Stay in your seat, or don't go.

[GMDino]

(05-22-2017, 01:54 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So they only pick part of Notre Dame's ethos and mission to be committed to?  

And I would never agree that it's OK to walk out on Obama when he was giving the commencement speech.  Stay in your seat, or don't go.

Is that what you were getting at?

Different students protested different things.

And I think they should stay because its best to listen to people you disagree with so you can tell them they are wrong.  But I have no problem with them leaving as they are adults.  

[*michaelsean*]

(05-22-2017, 02:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: Is that what you were getting at?

Different students protested different things.

And I think they should stay because its best to listen to people you disagree with so you can tell them they are wrong.  But I have no problem with them leaving as they are adults.  

  They invoked Notre Dame's ethos and mission, but apparently Notre Dame's ethos and mission are only important in certain areas. When another speaker goes against other aspects of Nore Dames ethos and mission, how come that doesn't bother them?

[GMDino]

(05-22-2017, 02:20 PM)michaelsean Wrote:   They invoked Notre Dame's ethos and mission, but apparently Notre Dame's ethos and mission are only important in certain areas.  When another speaker goes against other aspects of Nore Dames ethos and mission, how come that doesn't bother them?

Who said it doesn't?

[*michaelsean*]

(05-22-2017, 02:31 PM)GMDino Wrote: Who said it doesn't?

Do you think the people who walked out were like minded to the ones who protested Obama in 2009?  I'm going to say no.  They sat there and listened despite the fact that some of his beliefs go against Notre Dame's ethos and mission.  

[GMDino]

(05-22-2017, 02:39 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Do you think the people who walked out were like minded to the ones who protested Obama in 2009?  I'm going to say no.  They sat there and listened despite the fact that some of his beliefs go against Notre Dame's ethos and mission.  

Do you thing the people who walked out on Obama is 2009 were the same one who protested Pence in 2017? I'm  going to say no.  They sat there and listened despite the fact that some of his beliefs go against Notre Dame's ethos and mission.

Let's pretend ND only stands for two things: Social Justice and anti-abortion.

If a group of students and faculty walk out for one of those two reasons, depending on the speaker and what they believe, what is your stance on their support of the "ethos and mission" of ND?

[*michaelsean*]

(05-22-2017, 02:44 PM)GMDino Wrote: Do you thing the people who walked out on Obama is 2009 were the same one who protested Pence in 2017? I'm  going to say no.  They sat there and listened despite the fact that some of his beliefs go against Notre Dame's ethos and mission.

Let's pretend ND only stands for two things: Social Justice and anti-abortion.

If a group of students and faculty walk out for one of those two reasons, depending on the speaker and what they believe, what is your stance on their support of the "ethos and mission" of ND?

Putting aside that I don't think you should walk out or turn your back on anyone if you are there voluntarily, then if you walk out on one and not the other,  don't invoke Notre Dame's standards, because you really don't believe in Notre Dame's standards, you just agree with Notre Dame on some things.  

[GMDino]

(05-22-2017, 02:54 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Putting aside that I don't think you should walk out or turn your back on anyone if you are there voluntarily, then if you walk out on one and not the other,  don't invoke Notre Dame's standards, because you really don't believe in Notre Dame's standards, you just agree with Notre Dame on some things.  

Well I wish everyone had your incredibly high standards and that all people accepted 100% of everything for any group they belong to.

Thanks.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-22-2017, 03:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well I wish everyone had your incredibly high standards and that all people accepted 100% of everything for any group they belong to.

Thanks.

   How is invoking Notre Dame's standards meaningful  if you ignore half of them?  

[GMDino]

(05-22-2017, 03:10 PM)michaelsean Wrote:    How is invoking Notre Dame's standards meaningful  if you ignore half of them?  

How is supporting the death penalty while opposing abortion (or vice versa) invoking standards of a religion while ignoring half of them?

If only they upheld everything 100%.  Am I right?

And thanks again.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-22-2017, 03:13 PM)GMDino Wrote: How is supporting the death penalty while opposing abortion (or vice versa) invoking standards of a religion while ignoring half of them?

If only they upheld everything 100%.  Am I right?

And thanks again.

Did you think I would argue with you?  If a graduate who supports capital punishment and opposes abortion walks out on Obama because of his support for abortion and cites Notre Dames standards, then I would raise the same point.  Don't cite someone else's standards if what it really is is that you merely agree with them on some things.  

[GMDino]

(05-22-2017, 03:18 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Did you think I would argue with you?  If a graduate who supports capital punishment and opposes abortion walks out on Obama because of his support for abortion and cites Notre Dames standards, then I would raise the same point.  Don't cite someone else's standards if what it really is is that you merely agree with them on some things.  

Again, if only more people, like you, fully supported 100% of everything of every group you belong to.  Especially by choice!

[*michaelsean*]

(05-22-2017, 03:32 PM)GMDino Wrote: Again, if only more people, like you, fully supported 100% of everything of every group you belong to.  Especially by choice!

Again, if I invoke them as my reason then yes.

[*bfine32*]

(05-22-2017, 01:03 PM)Dill Wrote: Ha ha, Democratic party--the party of conservatives in 1865, that's for sure.

Let's get our history straight, Bfine, and thank liberals for all those things people now claim the US stands for, as I did above, ok? 

And that is, yes, AWESOME. :andy:

AAAHHHH, the old "We switched sides" fallacy. And that has zero to do with your saying every political party thinking they were right.

The Republican party was on the side of freeing slaves and the CRA. Pretty sure the Democratic President that signed the CRA did it begrudgingly. But it makes folks sound more awesome if they can say Well, if I'd been alive back then; I'd be on the other side because they were more awesome.

My family has been involved in local politics for over 100 years and they've always been Democrat; there was no "switch". It just reads good.

[*bfine32*]

(05-22-2017, 01:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Only "awesome" if you are in favor of womens suffrage, the civil rights act, and equal protection under the law for all citizens.

All of which were strongly opposed by conservatives.

You mean like Kim Davis? She must have not gotten the memo to switch after the CRA.