(08-28-2020, 03:43 PM)samhain Wrote: I was actually ready to enter this thread to defend or at least acknowledge that Rittenhouse may not have acted in a way that justifies his charges. However, upon realizing that the alt-right apologists and racists will likely elevate him to the level of national hero, I opted not to. This kid was a loser. He dropped out of school because he was socially inept and couldn't deal with kids making fun of him.
His solution was to join a group that would accept him and grant him real power, ie police/some backwoods militia. He was probably a guy with a lot of pent up anger due to sexual repression and years of being the butt of jokes from his peers. He got to get some of that anger out, and now he will be an alt-right demigod.
Rittenhouse is no hero, regardless of case's optics. He's a maladjusted man-baby who dealt with his lack of social development with violence. He wanted to lash out at the society that rightfully pegged him a loser. The gun, as it does for many that I see on the right, validated him. It meant that no matter how much people made fun of him throughout his life, he still had the power to end someone else's.
He's not a good kid. He may not necessarily be a terrible kid, but he wasn't on a path to being socially viable. His parents are morons at best and negligent at worst for letting a kid like that be involved with a group like that at his age.
This is the enduring issue with gun-lovers. They talk and talk about rights and sport and how their passion takes constitutional precedence over the lives of random victims. Unfortunately, deep down, many of them are just little Kyles. They were dorks. They got beat up, made fun of, and crammed in lockers when they were kids. Guns gave them what they never had in life: confidence and a backbone. This is why guns are such an object of idolatry for the right. These are people that never had power that can go to Walmart and buy the ultimate power for 400 bux, lol.
Get mad, argue all you want. Just look at pictures of this kid and tell me I'm wrong. Tell me that this kid isn't a first class, ripe target for any bully.
Wow, you've given us quite a bit to unbox here. Quite honestly this post rather reads a bit cathartic on your part. I will say you're displaying a rather warped sense of justice if you though this kid was in the right until you saw that people you don't like also thought the same way. His action were justified or they were not, who defends, or villianizes, him does not change that. I'll close by stating you seem to have gleaned a hell of a lot of highly personal information about this kid from a very small pool of available information.
(08-28-2020, 02:02 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: We'll see if we get more information. He crossed state lines with a gun he possessed illegally, openly carried it illegally, and was a few blocks away from the site he claimed to be protecting. I'm not sure if his intent wasn't to start some shit.
I'm trying to make sure I do not refer to either killings as "murder" (I don't think I have), but I have been stating my opinion on acceptable use of force.
So, from what has been said by a witness of the events leading up to the shooting has said, this is what went down:
Quote:Detective Cepress interviewed McGinnis and indicates the following: Before the shooting, McGinnis was interviewing the defendant. The defendant told McGinnis that he was a trained medic. McGinnis stated that he (McGinnis) has handled many ARs and that the defendant was not handling the weapon very well. McGinnis said that as they were walking south another armed male who appeared to be in his 30s joined them and said he was there to protect the defendant. McGinnis stated that before the defendant reached the parking lot and ran across it, the defendant had moved from the middle of Sheridan Road to the sidewalk and that is when McGinnis saw a male (Rosenbaum) initially try to engage the defendant. McGinnis stated that as the defendant was walking Rosenbaum was trying to get closer to the defendant. When Rosenbaum advanced, the defendant did a “juke” move and started running. McGinnis stated that there were other people that were moving very quickly. McGinnis stated that they were moving towards the defendant. McGinnis said that according to what he saw the defendant was trying to evade these individuals.
McGinnis described the point where the defendant had reached the car. McGinnis described that the defendant had the gun in a low ready position. Meaning that he had the gun raised but pointed downward. The butt of the gun would have been at an angle downwards from the shoulder. McGinnis stated that the defendant brought the gun up. McGinnis stated that he stepped back and he thinks the defendant fired 3 rounds in rapid succession. McGinnis said when the first round went off, he thought it hit the pavement. McGinnis felt something on his leg and his first thought was wondering whether he had gotten shot. McGinnis was behind and slightly to the right of Rosenbaum, in the line of fire, when the defendant shot.
McGinnis stated that the first round went into the ground and when the second shot went off, the defendant actually had the gun aimed at Rosenbaum. McGinnis stated he did not hear the two exchange any words. McGinnis said that the unarmed guy (Rosenbaum) was trying to get the defendant’s gun. McGinnis demonstrated by extending both of his hands in a quick grabbing motion and did that as a visual on how Rosenbaum tried to reach for the defendant’s gun. Detective Cepress indicates that he asked McGinnis if Rosenbaum had his hands on the gun when the defendant shot. McGinnis said that he definitely made a motion that he was trying to grab the barrel of the gun. McGinnis stated that the defendant pulled it away and then raised it. McGinnis stated that right as they came together, the defendant fired. McGinnis said that when Rosenbaum was shot, he had leaned in (towards the defendant).
It seems from the statement given by McGinnis, who is a journalist and should be pretty good at being able to absorb and recount these details, that Rittenhouse was not provoking the incident.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(08-28-2020, 05:45 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, from what has been said by a witness of the events leading up to the shooting has said, this is what went down:
It seems from the statement given by McGinnis, who is a journalist and should be pretty good at being able to absorb and recount these details, that Rittenhouse was not provoking the incident.
Straight from an eye witness, this kid shouldn't even have been charged. I do wonder about the gaps in this account though. No way words weren't exchanged and I'd be very interested in knowing what was said to Rittenhouse that caused him to run. Either way, it's clear Rittenhouse did not provoke this encounter, per a neutral third party witness.
Another video covering this with new information from the charging documents.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(08-29-2020, 10:46 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Another video covering this with new information from the charging documents.
How any one can see all this evidence and still think this kid wasn't completely justified in defending himself is beyond me.
As an aside, anyone surprised that so many of these rioters against the police are career criminals? Criminals tend to not like the police. Nice company you're keeping there protesters.
(08-29-2020, 11:48 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: How any one can see all this evidence and still think this kid wasn't completely justified in defending himself is beyond me.
As an aside, anyone surprised that so many of these rioters against the police are career criminals? Criminals tend to not like the police. Nice company you're keeping there protesters.
That's a weak aside.
Most protestors just see people joining in; they're not performing DICA background checks on their fellow man.
(08-29-2020, 11:48 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: How any one can see all this evidence and still think this kid wasn't completely justified in defending himself is beyond me.
As an aside, anyone surprised that so many of these rioters against the police are career criminals? Criminals tend to not like the police. Nice company you're keeping there protesters.
Hmm, what do you suggest for people who want to admit the protesting and rioting is awful but has no faith that the other side is going to fix it? My inability to believe that one side is good and one is evil is really making me feel hopeless and anti-american?
All I see is people doing terrible things getting a big ol' reward in 2020 regardless of which side wins. I should probably just find something else to obsess over.
(08-28-2020, 03:58 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Wow, you've given us quite a bit to unbox here. Quite honestly this post rather reads a bit cathartic on your part. I will say you're displaying a rather warped sense of justice if you though this kid was in the right until you saw that people you don't like also thought the same way. His action were justified or they were not, who defends, or villianizes, him does not change that. I'll close by stating you seem to have gleaned a hell of a lot of highly personal information about this kid from a very small pool of available information.
Are you seriously going to tell me that you can look at the pictures of him crammed into the cop cosplay outfit and not think that he's Augustus Gloop from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory crossed with Eric Cartman? LOL. Yeah, I'm sure he just bought the AR to defend himself from the mob of young ladies trampling each other to earn his favor.
His mom had to remove him from school. Lots or kids, perhaps even most, experience bullying. How many cope so poorly that they have to be removed from social interaction with their peers. It's not the norm, for sure.
Also not saying he's "right". I don't think a 17 year old patrolling a riot zone with an AR is a good idea on any level. Does the military let 17-year-olds enlist? I am open to the idea that he was indeed defending himself, but I'm not ready to build a statue of the pudgy fella in DC to honor his heroism as the right seems prepared to do.
I dunno, maybe the people that venerate him can send him a care package of some donuts and cheesy poofs to help him cope.
(08-29-2020, 11:38 PM)samhain Wrote: His mom had to remove him from school. Lots or kids, perhaps even most, experience bullying. How many cope so poorly that they have to be removed from social interaction with their peers. It's not the norm, for sure.
Also not saying he's "right". I don't think a 17 year old patrolling a riot zone with an AR is a good idea on any level. Does the military let 17-year-olds enlist? I am open to the idea that he was indeed defending himself, but I'm not ready to build a statue of the pudgy fella in DC to honor his heroism as the right seems prepared to do.
I dunno, maybe the people that venerate him can send him a care package of some donuts and cheesy poofs to help him cope.
17 year olds can enlist in all branches of service except the Space Force--so long as they have parental consent.
(08-29-2020, 11:38 PM)samhain Wrote:
Are you seriously going to tell me that you can look at the pictures of him crammed into the cop cosplay outfit and not think that he's Augustus Gloop from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory crossed with Eric Cartman? LOL. Yeah, I'm sure he just bought the AR to defend himself from the mob of young ladies trampling each other to earn his favor.
His mom had to remove him from school. Lots or kids, perhaps even most, experience bullying. How many cope so poorly that they have to be removed from social interaction with their peers. It's not the norm, for sure.
Also not saying he's "right". I don't think a 17 year old patrolling a riot zone with an AR is a good idea on any level. Does the military let 17-year-olds enlist? I am open to the idea that he was indeed defending himself, but I'm not ready to build a statue of the pudgy fella in DC to honor his heroism as the right seems prepared to do.
I dunno, maybe the people that venerate him can send him a care package of some donuts and cheesy poofs to help him cope.
You mention the kid didn't cope well with being bullied, then spend about 80% of your post bullying him, and then claim you've changed your stance on the matter because of the way people reacted.
(08-29-2020, 11:38 PM)samhain Wrote:
Are you seriously going to tell me that you can look at the pictures of him crammed into the cop cosplay outfit and not think that he's Augustus Gloop from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory crossed with Eric Cartman? LOL. Yeah, I'm sure he just bought the AR to defend himself from the mob of young ladies trampling each other to earn his favor.
His mom had to remove him from school. Lots or kids, perhaps even most, experience bullying. How many cope so poorly that they have to be removed from social interaction with their peers. It's not the norm, for sure.
Also not saying he's "right". I don't think a 17 year old patrolling a riot zone with an AR is a good idea on any level. Does the military let 17-year-olds enlist? I am open to the idea that he was indeed defending himself, but I'm not ready to build a statue of the pudgy fella in DC to honor his heroism as the right seems prepared to do.
I dunno, maybe the people that venerate him can send him a care package of some donuts and cheesy poofs to help him cope.
Kid had issues. Unfortunately he went along with the "everyone else is at fault, get me a gun" way of dealing with it.
His parents are just as much to blame. (Maybe they feel the same?)
Bullying is bad. It does not make people better or tougher. Nor does fighting. We've already had that argument around here.
Also teens can be awful and provoke kids who are easily provoked into doing something out of anger/frustration.
And, again, this kid decided that going to another city in another state with a gun was his way of "helping".
Then, when confronted, he killed two people.
It's bad all the way around and it really speaks to out gun culture in this country and how people can be led to think that violence is the best solution.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
A group of white men blocked off a street in Buffalo, New York, and began to yell racial slurs and threats at Black people, while literally standing in front of a cop who did nothing to stop them. pic.twitter.com/soqXVpuHVL
— ??Black??Aziz??aNANsi?? (@Freeyourmindkid) August 30, 2020
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(08-30-2020, 09:30 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You mention the kid didn't cope well with being bullied, then spend about 80% of your post bullying him, and then claim you've changed your stance on the matter because of the way people reacted.
I think the kid has to be there before it counts as "bullying."
(08-30-2020, 09:30 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You mention the kid didn't cope well with being bullied, then spend about 80% of your post bullying him, and then claim you've changed your stance on the matter because of the way people reacted.
(08-30-2020, 09:37 AM)GMDino Wrote: Kid had issues. Unfortunately he went along with the "everyone else is at fault, get me a gun" way of dealing with it.
His parents are just as much to blame. (Maybe they feel the same?)
Bullying is bad. It does not make people better or tougher. Nor does fighting. We've already had that argument around here.
Also teens can be awful and provoke kids who are easily provoked into doing something out of anger/frustration.
And, again, this kid decided that going to another city in another state with a gun was his way of "helping".
Then, when confronted, he killed two people.
It's bad all the way around and it really speaks to out gun culture in this country and how people can be led to think that violence is the best solution.
Guns are merely tools. They serve a specific purpose. No more, no less. If viewed through that lens, then there's nothing inherently wrong with them. Unfortuanely, there's a huge culture in this country that uses them to define themselves. They wear them on their shirts and put their stickers on their bumpers just to let you know that they might pew pew you if you hurt their widdle feewings. A gun can make a walking joke with no self esteem feel like the Punisher himself, ready to water the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots and libz, and maybe some brown folk if they get uppity enough. The best part is, all you need to buy one is some money and the cognitive function to answer some basic questions. It's a magic pill, like the star or the mushroom in Mario Brothers. Suddenly the fat kid or the gamer nerd gets to be Charles Bronson or Dirty Harry. Congratulations, loser! You're a Constitutional Warrior now! Now find that local militia an get to watering.
Guns are the saddest form of self-definition. So sad that we have so many folks in this country with so little self worth that they must define themselves by inanimate objects that fill the void for any real worthy attribute.
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
![[Image: bfine-guns2.png]](https://i.ibb.co/YBkDQJV/bfine-guns2.png)
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media0.giphy.com/media/1kwsTjL8BNqlszNtnCE/giphy.gif)
