Mass Shooting at San Antonio Elementary School

[Millhouse]

Pretty sure it was Fred a while back once pointed out that there were more gun owners in the 1970s as well as much easier access to guns back then as there is today. But there weren't any mass shootings like what we have seen from Columbine in 1999 thru very recently.

However murder/manslaughter began to rise in the 1970s thru the early 1990s, but then have descended since then to some of the lowest rates since the 1960s.

So it seems to be a paradox of some kind happening. Mass shootings have been happening since 1999 (1966 had the tower mass shooter in Texas), but murder rates (per 100,000 people) have been pretty low actually in the same time period compared to the 1970s thru the 1990s.

[BigPapaKain]

Mental health care.

You wanna fix these shootings? Universal health care including mental health care.

Apparently the $.45 a month is worth more than the lives of children to some folks, though.

[basballguy]

(05-25-2022, 10:14 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Mental health care.

You wanna fix these shootings? Universal health care including mental health care.

Apparently the $.45 a month is worth more than the lives of children to some folks, though.

Ok this is about as sensational as you can get around here.

1) If Universal Healthcare cost .45/month....or any other stupid low figure, then clearly we would have it.  

2) You are out of your mind if you think 'access' to healthcare would've prevented this issue.  Hell you don't even know if this kid (who just turned 18) didn't even have insurance.  

3) Obamacare was established so everyone could have "affordable" healthcare, are you suggesting it doesn't work?  

[*Nately120*]

(05-25-2022, 10:24 AM)basballguy Wrote: 1) If Universal Healthcare cost .45/month....or any other stupid low figure, then clearly we would have it.  

I'm not sure I'd believe that.  Nothing is cheap or effective enough for us to just assume it would be granted to us.  I mean, we're a country that spent generations incarcerating people for growing a plant.

Besides, doesn't mental health care only work on the people who are sane enough to seek it out and take it into consideration?  I'm not sure why people are so sure some psychologist with a fancy schmancy degree can change anyone's mind these days. 


Look at the whole covid thing.  Medical professionals vouched for something that was offered for free and a lot of people were like...yeah, no thanks...not only is what you are offering not good, but it's actually bad.  If this country offered free mental health counseling you'd see a few certain loudmouths warning their audience about how you're going to go there and get programmed and harmed and blah blah blah.

I'd say we're screwed on all this.  Prove me wrong, society.


I haven't even googled this, but what do you think the odds are that there are people saying that school psychologists and child psychologists are sexually/socially grooming and/or otherwise harming kids?

[Arturo Bandini]

For information, my healthcare contribution is 200€ a month.

[basballguy]

(05-25-2022, 10:33 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not sure I'd believe that.  Nothing is cheap or effective enough for us to just assume it would be granted to us.  I mean, we're a country that spent generations incarcerating people for growing a plant.

Besides, doesn't mental health care only work on the people who are sane enough to seek it out and take it into consideration?  I'm not sure why people are so sure some psychologist with a fancy schmancy degree can change anyone's mind these days. 


Look at the whole covid thing.  Medical professionals vouched for something that was offered for free and a lot of people were like...yeah, no thanks...not only is what you are offering not good, but it's actually bad.  If this country offered free mental health counseling you'd see a few certain loudmouths warning their audience about how you're going to go there and get programmed and harmed and blah blah blah.

I'd say we're screwed on all this.  Prove me wrong, society.


I haven't even googled this, but what do you think the odds are that there are people saying that school psychologists and child psychologists are sexually/socially grooming and/or otherwise harming kids?

Exactly.

These events are a reflection of us as a society and not the government/laws we establish.

No amount of government control can make us suddenly start caring or being more empathetic to those around us.

Quote:The decline of empathy in society has been observed for a while. A study of 14,000 American college students in 2011 found they exhibited empathy approximately 40% less than their peers in the 1980s. The fact that it might be a choice, made in the name of survival, makes it all the more disturbing.

https://theswaddle.com/is-the-world-becoming-less-empathetic-by-choice/

[*Nately120*]

(05-25-2022, 10:43 AM)basballguy Wrote: Exactly.

These events are a reflection of us as a society and not the government/laws we establish.

No amount of government control can make us suddenly start caring or being more empathetic to those around us.


https://theswaddle.com/is-the-world-becoming-less-empathetic-by-choice/

We're being programmed and rewarded for being less empathetic.  I know adults are supposed to be free-thinking and fully functioning, but our form of "entertainment" these days consists of a wealthy few making a lot of money by convincing regular Americans that they are under attack and need to fight back against their fellow regular Americans, plus a few people of power.

Marketing is always a combination of telling people what they want and giving people what they want.  It's the golden age of profiting from convincing americans they need to fight and kill each other.  Few get massive profits, and the rest of us get to live in a state of anger and fear and possibly get killed for it all.  But here we are, wanting, nay demanding MORE.  

[kalibengal]

(05-25-2022, 01:40 AM)GodFather Wrote: Unfortunately nothing will be done. If something was really going to change for the better it would have happened after Sandy Hook. Instead politics got involved that had nothing to do with protecting the people of this country but rather please their lobbyist and donors. 

This will continue while people fight each of their sides, and mass shootings will continue and innocent lives will continue to be lost...

yes and unfortunately its a F' up situation in this country that seems to just gets worse. I have 2 middle schoolers and its getting very difficult to explain to them why these things happen in THIS Country of ours. We hear all the lip service from our "law makers" after they happen and its all just hot air until something is legitimately done. From what I understand that f 'ed up kid had posted 2 guns on social media and was a "loner and was bullied" .....a recurring theme that seems could have been nipped in bud if only ONE person saw the signs and reported it. Dont get me started on how an 18 yr old can walk into a gun shop and easily buy 2 assault rifles just like getting a snickers bar.     

[basballguy]

(05-25-2022, 11:15 AM)kalibengal Wrote: yes and unfortunately its a F' up situation in this country that seems to just gets worse. I have 2 middle schoolers and its getting very difficult to explain to them why these things happen in THIS Country of ours. We hear all the lip service from our "law makers" after they happen and its all just hot air until something is legitimately done. From what I understand that f 'ed up kid had posted 2 guns on social media and was a "loner and was bullied" .....a recurring theme that seems could have been nipped in bud if only ONE person saw the signs and reported it. Dont get me started on how an 18 yr old can walk into a gun shop and easily buy 2 assault rifles just like getting a snickers bar.     

What exactly makes this difficult to explain?  Seems like you explained it just fine here.  

[*Nately120*]

(05-25-2022, 11:26 AM)basballguy Wrote: What exactly makes this difficult to explain?  Seems like you explained it just fine here.  

Easy to explain, difficult to accept.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(05-25-2022, 04:57 AM)grampahol Wrote: Simple solution most people ain't gonna like, but they get to keep their guns for the most part.. mandatory liability insurance for all firearms owned.. Failure to keep insurance current gets them confiscated, but it also makes you liable for any and all injuries or death when someone gets harmed or killed without just cause..  Makes sense to me.. 
The rights of unfettered gun ownership simply cannot supersede the rights of children to attend school safely.. 
Think about it.. You can't legally drive a car without insurance..Why would you be allowed to own guns without it?  Insurance companies get to make the killing instead of irresponsible gun owners.. 
Also make it mandatory that all firearms be registered.. No exceptions.. You can't drive an unregistered uninsured car..
It doesn't make guns any less safe in and of themselves, but it eliminates a lot of the bullsh*t arguments and debates.. 

This post makes so much sense 

[Belsnickel]

(05-25-2022, 09:18 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Why don't you try a gun ban in one state ? And see what happens ? If after 5 years, crimes get right down to close to 0 that might be a good clue to start with.

Ex : Hawaï

Because that would be unconstitutional.

[Arturo Bandini]

(05-25-2022, 03:39 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Because that would be unconstitutional.

Ok.

So thoughts and prayers then.

[Arturo Bandini]

Funny thing. Guns will be banned during Trump speech at the NRA.
Too much good guys with guns in the same room.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-25-2022, 04:57 AM)grampahol Wrote: Simple solution most people ain't gonna like, but they get to keep their guns for the most part.. mandatory liability insurance for all firearms owned.. Failure to keep insurance current gets them confiscated, but it also makes you liable for any and all injuries or death when someone gets harmed or killed without just cause..  Makes sense to me..

Aside from being blatantly unconstitutional you mean?
 

Quote:The rights of unfettered gun ownership simply cannot supersede the rights of children to attend school safely.

Children do attend school safely.  You're more likely to get struck by lightning than to be involved in a mass shooting event like this.
 

Quote:Think about it.. You can't legally drive a car without insurance..Why would you be allowed to own guns without it?  Insurance companies get to make the killing instead of irresponsible gun owners.. 

Driving a car is not a right guaranteed by the Constitution. 

Quote:Also make it mandatory that all firearms be registered.. No exceptions.. You can't drive an unregistered uninsured car..
It doesn't make guns any less safe in and of themselves, but it eliminates a lot of the bullsh*t arguments and debates.. 

Aside from it being against the law it wouldn't have done a single thing to stop this shooting, Parkland, Sand Hook, Columbine, Virginia Tech or any of the other mass shootings.  If you're really fired up to do something then try focusing on solutions that would actually have an impact on the issue at hand.

(05-25-2022, 09:55 AM)Millhouse Wrote: Pretty sure it was Fred a while back once pointed out that there were more gun owners in the 1970s as well as much easier access to guns back then as there is today. But there weren't any mass shootings like what we have seen from Columbine in 1999 thru very recently.

Who said it is irrelevant, the fact that it's 100% incorrect is.  Not only are there far more guns, and gun owners, now than in the 70's there were absolutely mass shootings throughout US history.  University of Texas, McDonalds in Killeen, and the St. Valentines Day Massacre to name three just off the top of my head.

Quote:However murder/manslaughter began to rise in the 1970s thru the early 1990s, but then have descended since then to some of the lowest rates since the 1960s.

Indeed, all the while the number of guns and gun owners steadily rose.  It's almost like correlation does not equal causation.

Quote:So it seems to be a paradox of some kind happening. Mass shootings have been happening since 1999 (1966 had the tower mass shooter in Texas), but murder rates (per 100,000 people) have been pretty low actually in the same time period compared to the 1970s thru the 1990s.

It's not just one thing.  Some of it is social media.  Some of it is the notoriety these shooters have received.  Some of it is just plan copy cats.

(05-25-2022, 03:39 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Because that would be unconstitutional.

Here's the thing, and all of the posts quoted here have led to this point.  Solutions enacted without restraint or rules are easy.  If you suspended constitutional protections law enforcement could cut crime dramatically in less than a month.  We know who the worst criminals are, we know where they live and we know who they associate with.  We just can't, at the time, prove they've committed a new crime to the point that we can arrest them.  You want to live in a far safer world (not you btw, I know your answer to what's coming), it can be provided to you.  The real question is how much are you willing to sacrifice to obtain that safety?  Now, for people who don't own a gun getting rid of them is of no consequence, they aren't losing anything.  Of course, a large number of those people became gun owners during the pandemic and the riots of the past two years due to law enforcement being handcuffed by the government; city, county, state and federal.  So what you're comfortable giving up now you may regret down the road, because once you lose a right you're never, ever, getting it back.

There is a mechanism for amending the Constitution.  If the 2A is so outdated that it needs to be removed then make that move.  If you'd like something less drastic then propose something that would actually affect the problem you're claiming to want to solve.  I'll close by pointing out that many of the people clamoring to "do something" are the same people that want law enforcement removed from schools.  Not exactly a consistent position.

[J24]

It's more of a security issue than anything else. Schools are easy targets lack of security + multiple entrances make them easy targets. 94% of all mass shootings happen at gun free zones.

Even if guns were outright illegal the black market would just take over. Just like banning drugs has made billions for the cartel.

[*Nately120*]

(05-25-2022, 06:07 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Ok.

So thoughts and prayers then.

We've made our beds on this one.  I'm sure this looks completely insane from an outside perspective. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-25-2022, 08:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We've made our beds on this one.  I'm sure this looks completely insane from an outside perspective. 

I have no doubt.  Much like we look at other Western democracies and are aghast that they imprison people for voicing the wrong opinion or being "offensive."  Is it worse or better?  I suppose that's for the individual to decide.  

[Arturo Bandini]

(05-25-2022, 09:21 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I have no doubt.  Much like we look at other Western democracies and are aghast that they imprison people for voicing the wrong opinion or being "offensive."  Is it worse or better?  I suppose that's for the individual to decide.  

Like who ?

[*Nately120*]

(05-25-2022, 09:21 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I have no doubt.  Much like we look at other Western democracies and are aghast that they imprison people for voicing the wrong opinion or being "offensive."  Is it worse or better?  I suppose that's for the individual to decide.  

Still, you have to admit it's a bit bitterly amusing that the "gun laws don't stop gun violence" party was eager to pass a law against armed protesting outside of supreme court justice's houses.