McKinney, Texas Police Video

[BmorePat87]

hmmm..

Clearly this one dude has issues. I realized that when he did a ***** barrel roll and lost his flashlight.

That said, the group of girls should have gotten their asses home as soon as that shit went down. About 3 minutes pass between the start of the video and the time he tells them to leave. Instead they slowly walk away and yell shit at him. Not that she deserves to be assaulted, but she could have been much smarter.

I saw the initial fight video (http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/06/07/video-emerges-of-violence-at-innocent-pool-party-in-mckinney-texas/). It looks like two white moms was fighting a teen. The teen and one fat woman were pulling hair. Fat white woman not pulling hair starts hitting teen girl's head so black teen guys not fighting start hitting the hair pulling white woman's head.

Afterwards the teens are treated like they started it. Reports say they were invited to the party. Reality is some probably weren't and crashed it. That's how parties work. Doubt they were drinking and smoking in public. Who knows who started the fight. The only racism was probably the white parents there seeing a bunch of black kids at their closed pool, but that's speculation. Don't even know what started the fight.

Wouldn't say the cop's reaction was based on race. Seems more like it was based on stress and not thinking. Again, he seems like a d bag.

[JustWinBaby]

(06-08-2015, 06:40 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: hmmm..

Clearly this one dude has issues. I realized that when he did a ***** barrel roll and lost his flashlight.

The barrel roll gave me the same thoughts.  A little too gung-ho and wound too tightly.  To be fair, I'm sure they teach you to roll if you trip to avoid injury and recover more quickly.  That he was executed so flawlessly means he's put in a lot of practice, or is perhaps a recent trainee or recent military.

[*michaelsean*]

OK I finally got to see the video. I hope the barrel roll was the result of tripping. Dude sees some black kids, and thinks he's walking a beat in Compton or something. How the other cops let him carry on like that, I have no idea. The kids in cuffs look like the are more likely to have been to Comic-Con than some gangsta rap concert.

[JustWinBaby]

Well, heard he's a former SEAL....so probably aced barrel-rolling. I think he thought he was working the beat in Chiraq.

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-08-2015, 07:01 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: The barrel roll gave me the same thoughts.  A little too gung-ho and wound too tightly.  To be fair, I'm sure they teach you to roll if you trip to avoid injury and recover more quickly.  That he was executed so flawlessly means he's put in a lot of practice, or is perhaps a recent trainee or recent military.

(06-09-2015, 10:34 AM)michaelsean Wrote: OK I finally got to see the video.  I hope the barrel roll was the result of tripping.  Dude sees some black kids, and thinks he's walking a beat in Compton or something.    How the other cops let him carry on like that, I have no idea.  The kids in cuffs look like the are more likely to have been to Comic-Con than some gangsta rap concert.

Cocaine

[Benton]

My only thought was "Farva!"

[JustWinBaby]

(06-09-2015, 11:31 AM)Benton Wrote: My only thought was "Farva!"

The beginning of that video could be an intro to Brooklyn Nine-nine.  You'll notice the barrel-roll cop is in a dead sprint while the others are basically jogging.

"They're raiding Dunkin Donuts!!!"
"Not on MY watch!"

[*bfine32*]

It appears the LEO in question has resigned:

http://www.fox4news.com/story/29279422/mckinney-officer-resigns-due-to-video-of-pulling-gun-on-teens

[xxlt]

(06-08-2015, 12:01 PM)Benton Wrote: Didn't really see any racial issue, or issue with force. The officer probably shouldn't have pulled a firearm, but it's not possible to say what was going through his mind when faced with that many people who aren't listening.

FWIW, the kids weren't supposed to be there. They were trespassing. They were being unruly in a pool that they weren't supposed to be at. They were asked to leave and didn't. An officer was within his rights to physically remove them.

Interesting that the above post provides context and insight those before it lacked. Also interesting the above post notes officers were dispersing a crowd which was the purpose of this call - to remove a crowd of people trespassing on private property. So, not an easy call, and you can see the level of cooperation of the trespassers was less than stellar. Not sure if their thoughts were more along the lines of I ignore all authority figures, or this is the new game - defy the cops and get yourself on video baiting a confrontation - and I want to play, or something else, but I would suggest the crowd members who failed to disperse and "played the game" contributed to the escalation as much as the cops did. I really think the condemnation of the officer is overboard.

Being a cop is a very difficult job, often being done by people with limited skills and training. And, for every person armchair quarterbacking, I really hope you never have to deal with a situation like the one in the video with you playing the part of the non-dispersing crowd member, the property owner overwhelmed by trespassers, or a cop. But if you do, your armchair assessment might be a little different.

[xxlt]

(06-08-2015, 12:16 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No need to draw your firearm in this instance.  I think he was trying to scare them, which is not a proper use of your sidearm.  I can tell you that trying to deal with any large group of teenagers can strain the patience of a saint.  The twitter outrage is just more evidence of the click bait media agenda of late and comparing radically different situations to "prove" your point just drives the two sides further apart.  I can tell you all of this BS has had a real effect out in the field.  A school liaison officer at Compton HS was assaulted last month by a large group of students.  That's just not something that used to happen.  I hope all the race baiters and media click baiters will appreciate the toxic atmosphere they've helped create because it's not going away any time soon.

I think your observation about the Compton SRO betrays your assessment that the cop in the video should not have pulled his weapon. He was trying to subdue an uncooperative subject and two more charged him, and there were more potential hostiles behind and in front of him. Maybe he should have gone baton or chemical, but I would give him the benefit of the doubt that he couldn't see if the two threats running at him were armed or not and have no problem with him taking out the sidearm. They promptly retreated and he promptly holstered. Watching from the living room, it is so easy to say, "no need." Like I said, I would give him the benefit of the doubt. (Kind of surprised you did not, but don't really want to argue about it, just saying I didn't think that was a huge error, maybe not even an error.)

[xxlt]

(06-08-2015, 12:50 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: 1. Agree, the race issue is 100% media driven for the ratings of course.

2. I'm one of the first one's to defend officers in most instances.

3. He, IMHO, way overreacted to a situation that wasn't that out of control.

4. Shame on those other officers for not stepping up and helping the officer that was obviously losing his composure and overreacting.

Yeah, some good points, but this video shows part of the scene - we don't know what happened before, how many people there were, or what the other cops were doing. This isn't one that is "in the manual." Very unique and fluid situation. And video sucks for just these reasons. It doesn't show before and it doesn't show around and so it is easy for it to create a false impression.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2015, 09:19 PM)xxlt Wrote: I think your observation about the Compton SRO betrays your assessment that the cop in the video should not have pulled his weapon. He was trying to subdue an uncooperative subject and two more charged him, and there were more potential hostiles behind and in front of him. Maybe he should have gone baton or chemical, but I would give him the benefit of the doubt that he couldn't see if the two threats running at him were armed or not and have no problem with him taking out the sidearm. They promptly retreated and he promptly holstered. Watching from the living room, it is so easy to say, "no need." Like I said, I would give him the benefit of the doubt. (Kind of surprised you did not, but don't really want to argue about it, just saying I didn't think that was a huge error, maybe not even an error.)

A refreshing change having someone defending the LEO aside from me.  That being said he wasn't in the situation alone or I'd be much more apt to agree with you.  If you have backup on site your risk from an unarmed assailant(s) goes way down.  Having been in this type of situation before I can say it wears your nerves and patience raw.  One time I came a brain impulse away from throwing a person down a concrete flight of stairs but you have to reign those impulses in and not express them.  Unlike most I don't see the barrel roll as a big deal, it looked like he was tripping/falling and he rolled out of it.

As for the guy resigning, that's yet another sacrifice on the altar of public opinion.  He made a mistake, IMO, but he didn't point his gun and anyone and he sure didn't discharge it.  Like I've said for months now, this is going to get worse before it gets better.

[JustWinBaby]

(06-09-2015, 09:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Unlike most I don't see the barrel roll as a big deal, it looked like he was tripping/falling and he rolled out of it.

He pretty clearly trips, but it's still hilarious.

I don't think he needed to resign, but this was probably a smart decision because this video, unfairly or not, would be used to cook him if he was involved in any other questionable incident in his career.

[Devils Advocate]

It would appear some most would believe LEO's have an all encompassing authority of which they have no such thing. They can't arrest you for mouthing off. The city of Houston attempted passed a law outlawing 'mouthing off to officers' which has long been held not an arrest able offense alone.
As long as you're not interfering they can't tell you to do much of anything.

It could be argued that the few persons that attempted to come to the girls aide were well within their rights to do so. An illegal arrest is an assault and battery and it could be argued that the officers who witnessed this event are aiding or at least failed to uphold their duty for not interfering with the rogue officer or coming to the aide of the non physical threat juvenile female in a swimsuit, and should themselves be placed on leave at minimum. If a parent can't handle their own children in this manner, neither should LEO's be allowed.

Source

Quote:“One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

Quote:“When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind.

[xxlt]

(06-09-2015, 09:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A refreshing change having someone defending the LEO aside from me.  That being said he wasn't in the situation alone or I'd be much more apt to agree with you.  If you have backup on site your risk from an unarmed assailant(s) goes way down.  Having been in this type of situation before I can say it wears your nerves and patience raw.  One time I came a brain impulse away from throwing a person down a concrete flight of stairs but you have to reign those impulses in and not express them.  Unlike most I don't see the barrel roll as a big deal, it looked like he was tripping/falling and he rolled out of it.

As for the guy resigning, that's yet another sacrifice on the altar of public opinion.  He made a mistake, IMO, but he didn't point his gun and anyone and he sure didn't discharge it.  Like I've said for months now, this is going to get worse before it gets better.

Yeah, I suspect it is going to get worse. I remember 1991 when the Rodney King assault went down. There was this mentality then in most of our country that King had it coming to him. That mindset was, of course, wrong. But now the pendulum has swung the other way and there is this mindset that every cop is terrorizing sweet little children with no provocation and shooting guys in the back. That mindset is wrong, too. Somebody called it click bait and I referred to it as the new game everyone is playing. The collective mind seems to be "let's mess with LEOs - it will be fun." There is a middle ground where cops and citizens act mutually respectful, where bad police are held accountable and it isn't a media "event" but rather a tragedy for the whole community when someone loses his badge, but in this climate it is really hard to imagine.

I remember as a kid and young adult having very few but almost exclusively positive interactions with cops. Since then I have had a mix of positive and negative interactions. It always amazes me when I see a LEO disrespect a citizen or a citizen disrespect a LEO. It is something I just couldn't imagine a few years ago. What a sad devolution for our culture. People celebrate the decay and failure of community institutions, and even try to accelerate it. People joke about violence toward and from LEOs. Everything is a joke. The center can't hold. And the band plays on.

[xxlt]

(06-09-2015, 10:25 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: It would appear some most would believe LEO's have an all encompassing authority of which they have no such thing. They can't arrest you for mouthing off. The city of Houston attempted passed a law outlawing 'mouthing off to officers' which has long been held not an arrest able offense alone.
As long as you're not interfering they can't tell you to do much of anything.

It could be argued that the few persons that attempted to come to the girls aide were well within their rights to do so. An illegal arrest is an assault and battery and it could be argued that the officers who witnessed this event are aiding or at least failed to uphold their duty for not interfering with the rogue officer or coming to the aide of the non physical threat juvenile female in a swimsuit, and should themselves be placed on leave at minimum. If a parent can't handle their own children in this manner, neither should LEO's be allowed.

Source

So the point is it is not illegal to be an asshole. That is certainly true. I suppose that means it is not illegal to be a cop and be an asshole. I mean, if an officer is being cursed and has no authority to arrest you for that but does have the authority to arrest you for criminal trespass (yes the kids were in public but had been removed from private property where they trespassed and only left when police arrived) and he chooses instead to curse back, isn't that also ok? If it isn't ok to arrest a citizen for mouthing off to a cop it seems it would not be ok for a citizen to make a (cue Gomer Pyle's voice) "citizen's arrest" of an officer for running his mouth at people.

As far as how kids were handled in the video, whatever happened to all those black parents who have given "the talk" to their kids about how to interact with police? I thought the talk said to obey commands, not make sudden movements, not raise your voice, and cooperate completely. It would seem the new talk is to ignore commands, feint and charge at officers, shout at them, and offer no cooperation.

Whether you think cops have authority they don't have or you think they are all vile spineless and powerless creatures who are a stain on humanity, what makes more sense? Being deferential or being defiant?

[*michaelsean*]

(06-09-2015, 09:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A refreshing change having someone defending the LEO aside from me.  That being said he wasn't in the situation alone or I'd be much more apt to agree with you.  If you have backup on site your risk from an unarmed assailant(s) goes way down.  Having been in this type of situation before I can say it wears your nerves and patience raw.  One time I came a brain impulse away from throwing a person down a concrete flight of stairs but you have to reign those impulses in and not express them.  Unlike most I don't see the barrel roll as a big deal, it looked like he was tripping/falling and he rolled out of it.

As for the guy resigning, that's yet another sacrifice on the altar of public opinion.  He made a mistake, IMO, but he didn't point his gun and anyone and he sure didn't discharge it.  Like I've said for months now, this is going to get worse before it gets better.

Outside of the Walter Scott shooting, I pretty much have landed on the side of police, or said I don't know, but this guy comes off as a clown.  Why is he the only cop running all over the place?  It looks like he even considers directing traffic for a minute there.  And the white socks don't help.

[Belsnickel]

(06-10-2015, 10:37 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Outside of the Walter Scott shooting, I pretty much have landed on the side of police, or said I don't know, but this guy comes off as a clown.  Why is he the only cop running all over the place?  It looks like he even considers directing traffic for a minute there.  And the white socks don't help.

[Devils Advocate]

xxlt

Quote:So the point is it is not illegal to be an asshole. That is certainly true. I suppose that means it is not illegal to be a cop and be an asshole. I mean, if an officer is being cursed and has no authority to arrest you for that but does have the authority to arrest you for criminal trespass (yes the kids were in public but had been removed from private property where they trespassed and only left when police arrived) and he chooses instead to curse back, isn't that also ok? If it isn't ok to arrest a citizen for mouthing off to a cop it seems it would not be ok for a citizen to make a (cue Gomer Pyle's voice) "citizen's arrest" of an officer for running his mouth at people.

As far as how kids were handled in the video, whatever happened to all those black parents who have given "the talk" to their kids about how to interact with police? I thought the talk said to obey commands, not make sudden movements, not raise your voice, and cooperate completely. It would seem the new talk is to ignore commands, feint and charge at officers, shout at them, and offer no cooperation.

Whether you think cops have authority they don't have or you think they are all vile spineless and powerless creatures who are a stain on humanity, what makes more sense? Being deferential or being defiant?

if that's what you wanna take from what I wrote that's fine. Still, the broader point is that LEO's don't have an all encompassing authority. If you haven't done anything wrong, they can't just order you around. Unfortunately more often than we realize, they overstep their limited supremacy and an unsuspecting citizenry accepts ( a given officers ) self appointed domination. After all, it's the fault of your own if you don't know the law. The problem is many officers are just as ignorant and quick to trample your rights. 

Unfortunatley for for oath takers and keepers, those in public service,  the standards are high and rightfully so. They're free to be assholes just like the rest of us but unlike the rest of us their actions are under a microscope. It would behoove them to act accordingly. You may say the same applies to citizens and as a practical matter, I'd agree. However, in law, they do not have the authority to arrest or otherwise harass, detain or infringe upon the rights of an asshole. The courts have said as much for good reason. 

Do you feel it's ok to be arrested for being a smart ass or as you put it 'defiant'? Philosophically speaking, complacency has no place on the front lines. I'm positive you're aware of history and authority. As time passes current events may very well be viewed as the front lines to future generations. 

I didn't know 'black parents' specifically, were suppose to have a special talk with their children about police etiquette. Perhaps police commanders would benifit from offering a class dealing with public etiquette, particularly the black community. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

So, has anyone seen the interview with Benet Embry? It's not getting much airplay, for some reason......