Minimum wage debate

[Benton]

So we've discussed it before, but it seemed like a decent time to discuss it again (as it came up in another thread recently and there's got to be something to talk about besides the POTUS).

Personally, I'm against a minimum wage unless it's tied into geographic economic factors ($10 in rural Arkansas is a living wage; $15 in NYC won't pay rent). But there's talk of flat minimum wage increases, which I'm against.

I don't think it'll impact the economy negatively, though. The current belief in businesses is built in increases, whether they're warranted or not. If you gradually increase prices on a regular basis, even if you haven't had increased expenses, then you reduce the negative impression that comes with more infrequent (and more substantial) price hikes.

[GMDino]

(03-02-2019, 01:42 AM)Benton Wrote: So we've discussed it before, but it seemed like a decent time to discuss it again (as it came up in another thread recently and there's got to be something to talk about besides the POTUS).

Personally, I'm against a minimum wage unless it's tied into geographic economic factors ($10 in rural Arkansas is a living wage; $15 in NYC won't pay rent).  But there's talk of flat minimum wage increases, which I'm against.

I don't think it'll impact the economy negatively, though. The current belief in businesses is built in increases, whether they're warranted or not. If you gradually increase prices on a regular basis, even if you haven't had increased expenses, then you reduce the negative impression that comes with more infrequent (and more substantial) price hikes.

I completely agree with your way to implement it.

People who say "it will make prices go up" apparently haven't noticed prices still go up without pay increases for the workers..

[*michaelsean*]

(03-04-2019, 10:08 AM)GMDino Wrote: I completely agree with your way to implement it.

People who say "it will make prices go up" apparently haven't noticed prices still go up without pay increases for the workers..

That's not a very good argument.  You are not removing the other  reasons prices go up, you are just adding to them.

In theory I don't like the idea of a minimum wage, but reality is reality.  A lot like it is now, there should be a federal minimum wage that you can't go beneath, and then the states have the choice to raise it based on their cost of living etc.

[GMDino]

(03-04-2019, 10:14 AM)michaelsean Wrote: That's not a very good argument.  You are not removing the other  reasons prices go up, you are just adding to them.

In theory I don't like the idea of a minimum wage, but reality is reality.  A lot like it is now, there should be a federal minimum wage that you can't go beneath, and then the states have the choice to raise it based on their cost of living etc.

But it eliminates that argument.  If the complaint is "prices will go up!" well, they already are.  

And they always will.

When was the last time we got major price drops because of deregulation for example?  lol.

If wages and risen with the cost of living in the past we wouldn't be looking at this today.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-04-2019, 10:17 AM)GMDino Wrote: But it eliminates that argument.  If the complaint is "prices will go up!" well, they already are.  

And they always will.

When was the last time we got major price drops because of deregulation for example?  lol.

If wages and risen with the cost of living in the past we wouldn't be looking at this today.

Prices will go up more.  It may be unavoidable that you have to do it, but the fact that prices already go up doesn't mean people are OK with them going up even more than they would have.

[GMDino]

(03-04-2019, 10:21 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Prices will go up more.  It may be unavoidable that you have to do it, but the fact that prices already go up doesn't mean people are OK with them going up even more than they would have.

Ok Mike.  Let prices go up and not pay people more.  That seems to be working.  

Lets not do anything to help the workers.

I'm sure "the free market" will take care of that as it has for the last 30+ years.

You convinced me.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-04-2019, 10:39 AM)GMDino Wrote: Ok Mike.  Let prices go up and not pay people more.  That seems to be working.  

Lets not do anything to help the workers.

I'm sure "the free market" will take care of that as it has for the last 30+ years.

You convinced me.

I'm pretty good because I wasn't trying to convince you of anything.  Even said it may be unavoidable.  Then you started arguing against stuff I didn't say, and here we are.

[BmorePat87]

It should be tied to inflation and the local cost of living.

[GMDino]

(03-04-2019, 10:57 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I'm pretty good because I wasn't trying to convince you of anything.  Even said it may be unavoidable.  Then you started arguing against stuff I didn't say, and here we are.

My argument was that just because prices will go up it doesn't matter because prices go up anyway and workers pay aren't being raised to meet those increases.

You said that raising wages would be ANOTHER reason for prices to go up.  I agreed.  And given that it would be another reason that is a good reason to not raise worker pay.

Why are you still arguing?

[GMDino]

(03-04-2019, 11:08 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: It should be tied to inflation and the local cost of living.

I'd agree but someone will tell me (not you) that that is wrong. 

[*michaelsean*]

(03-04-2019, 11:12 AM)GMDino Wrote: My argument was that just because prices will go up it doesn't matter because prices go up anyway and workers pay aren't being raised to meet those increases.

You said that raising wages would be ANOTHER reason for prices to go up.  I agreed.  And given that it would be another reason that is a good reason to not raise worker pay.

Why are you still arguing?

The only thing I said is you didn't provide a good argument.  Nobody is going to say, "Well if prices go up anyway that's good enough for me.  If a Big Mac was going to go to $4.00 what does it matter if it goes to $7?"

[fredtoast]

The "rising prices" is not as big of a deal as some claim. Only a small portion of a big Macs cost is labor, and an increase in minimum wage would only be a small percentage of the labor cost.

A crew of five at a McDonalds being paid an extra two dollars an hour would only amount to $10 spread over several hundred dollars of sales. So a Big Mac would go up a few pennies.

A field laborer will pick hundreds of pounds of tomatoes in an hour. So paying him a few more dollars an hour will only add a few pennies to the cost of tomatoes.

And no business can claim it puts them at a competitive disadvantage i.e. "drive them out of business" because the same loabor costs will apply to their competitors also.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

I have a question, is the minimum wage supposed to be a wage someone can raise a family on? I've seen this argument and I can't believe that anyone thinks that this is actually feasible.

[*Nately120*]

(03-04-2019, 01:23 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I have a question, is the minimum wage supposed to be a wage someone can raise a family on?  I've seen this argument and I can't believe that anyone thinks that this is actually feasible.

I blame our society for shoving heterosexuality down our throats and treating anyone who is married with kids by the age of 25 like a sociopath. On a more serious note, our society, and the value of a person, is tied very heavily to his/her ability and willingness to engage in the culture of self-destructive consumerism. Living within your means doesn't get you laid...trust me!

[*bfine32*]

(03-04-2019, 01:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I blame our society for shoving heterosexuality down our throats and treating anyone who is married with kids by the age of 25 like a sociopath.  On a more serious note, our society, and the value of a person, is tied very heavily to his/her ability and willingness to engage in the culture of self-destructive consumerism.  Living within your means doesn't get you laid...trust me!

I hate when I have heterosexuality shoved down my throat.

[*Nately120*]

(03-04-2019, 01:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I hate when I have heterosexuality shoved down my throat.

Don't blame me, blame all the people who have pictures of their husband/wives and kids on facebook.  I don't mind that people are heterosexual and reproducing, but they don't need to be so "in your face" about it, you know?

I should try to be on topic....let's see....I don't make minimum wage so it's easy to not care about that. AND I have my other bases covered, because if they raise minimum wage and prices go up I can just work harder and it won't matter. So yea...who cares?

[fredtoast]

(03-04-2019, 01:23 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I have a question, is the minimum wage supposed to be a wage someone can raise a family on?  I've seen this argument and I can't believe that anyone thinks that this is actually feasible.

Here is the problem I have.  Corporations are making record profits because they can pay such low wages while taxpayers pay the difference between minimum wage and living wage.  

Tax payers are subsidizing labor so corporations can make more money at the same time the wealthy elite have convinced taxpayers that an increase in minimum wage will double the price of a Big Mac.

[*Nately120*]

(03-04-2019, 01:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here is the problem I have.  Corporations are making record profits because they can pay such low wages while taxpayers pay the difference between minimum wage and living wage.  

Tax payers are subsidizing labor so corporations can make more money at the same time the wealthy elite have convinced taxpayers that an increase in minimum wage will double the price of a Big Mac.

You aren't proud to pay for entitlement programs to support Wal Mart's workforce and consumer-base?  Do you hate capitalism!?

[BmorePat87]

(03-04-2019, 01:23 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I have a question, is the minimum wage supposed to be a wage someone can raise a family on?  I've seen this argument and I can't believe that anyone thinks that this is actually feasible.

Any job where you can sit on facetime all day and not get fired isn't a job you're suppose to be able to raise a family on. 

Unless it's in an office. 


But, no, minimum wage jobs shouldn't be jobs you have to raise a family on. I think the fight isn't just about minimum wage, but service industry and retail pay in general. If entry wages increase, so would other wages (presumably). 

[*Nately120*]

(03-04-2019, 02:54 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Any job where you can sit on facetime all day and not get fired isn't a job you're suppose to be able to raise a family on. 

Unless it's in an office. 


But, no, minimum wage jobs shouldn't be jobs you have to raise a family on. I think the fight isn't just about minimum wage, but service industry and retail pay in general. If entry wages increase, so would other wages (presumably). 

Hmm, maybe it's just me but the less I've gotten paid the less time I've had to futz about and not be working.  Low wage jobs I've had have been very "do this...make this...keep doing/making" and the higher wage jobs involve me sporadically using specific skills whilst posting on here during down-time.