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I have a feeling this thread is about to get locked.
So here is my final comments.
The BLM protests are over minorities being treated differently than white people by police.
I believe than any mention of the crime rate among blacks in this discussion is an attempt to deflect blame from the police or somehow claim that black people deserve to be treated differently. The reason I believe this is that the issue of crime rate among blacks has NOTHING to do with the police judging people by the color of their skin.
I am one who does not deny the problem of crime in the black community. It is not racist to admit that the black community as a whole has a problem with crime. What is racist is judging individual black people based on the stereotype. And that is EXACTLY what racial profiling is. No matter what the crime rate is among blacks that does not justify the police treating individual black people differently based on the color of their skin.
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(10-30-2020, 04:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have a feeling this thread is about to get locked.
So here is my final comments.
The BLM protests are over minorities being treated differently than white people by police.
Some of them are, some of them aren't. I believe that the the motivations of some very well intentioned people are being usurped by those with a less noble goal.
Quote:I believe than any mention of the crime rate among blacks in this discussion is an attempt to deflect blame from the police or somehow claim that black people deserve to be treated differently. The reason I believe this is that the issue of crime rate among blacks has NOTHING to do with the police judging people by the color of their skin.
He flat out said it was not that, so your belief flies in the face of what's been stated. A simple cause and effect analysis would show us that if the crime rate in the black community (btw I loathe that term, but use it for wont over a better descriptor) dropped then there would be less police interaction with black people. The other issue stemming from this is that criminality within that community is ignored, and in some cases lauded, which further damages the ability of that community to interact with those who enforce the law. If all you do is focus on the law enforcement side of this issue then you'll get exactly what is happening in cities like Portland, Philadelphia, Seattle and D.C., which is rampant, and largely tolerated, lawlessness.
Quote:I am one who does not deny the problem of crime in the black community. It is not racist to admit that the black community as a whole has a problem with crime. What is racist is judging individual black people based on the stereotype. And that is EXACTLY what racial profiling is. No matter what the crime rate is among blacks that does not justify the police treating individual black people differently based on the color of their skin.
I don't think anyone here would disagree. The problem with your position is explained above. You can't ignore a large percentage of a problem and expect it to even begin to be resolved. You need a two tiered approach to this and right now we only have a one tiered, insanely judgmental approach that allows for not dissension, as perfectly illustrated in this very thread. I want this problem solved, probably more so than many of the more prominent people in the BLM movement, but the current approach will not achieve this and, in fact, will only exacerbate it.
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(10-30-2020, 04:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have a feeling this thread is about to get locked.
So here is my final comments.
The BLM protests are over minorities being treated differently than white people by police.
I believe than any mention of the crime rate among blacks in this discussion is an attempt to deflect blame from the police or somehow claim that black people deserve to be treated differently. The reason I believe this is that the issue of crime rate among blacks has NOTHING to do with the police judging people by the color of their skin.
I am one who does not deny the problem of crime in the black community. It is not racist to admit that the black community as a whole has a problem with crime. What is racist is judging individual black people based on the stereotype. And that is EXACTLY what racial profiling is. No matter what the crime rate is among blacks that does not justify the police treating individual black people differently based on the color of their skin.
My issue with that is that the poster of said post clarified multiple times that it was not meant in the way you keep understanding it. I'd advocate for just accepting that and move on. Even more so for as you yourself say, what was stated was factually correct. And I find it weird to insist on argueing that a factually correct statement with no further implications needs to be treated as having all kinds of further implications, like being in favor of racial profiling or judging an individual on a stereotype. No one promoted things like that.
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(10-30-2020, 04:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: He flat out said it was not that, so your belief flies in the face of what's been stated. A simple cause and effect analysis would show us that if the crime rate in the black community (btw I loathe that term, but use it for wont over a better descriptor) dropped then there would be less police interaction with black people.
This is just more proof that you don't understand the problem.
If a man beats his wife would the solution be for her to get out of the house more so that he does not have as many chances to beat her?
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(10-30-2020, 05:16 PM)hollodero Wrote: My issue with that is that the poster of said post clarified multiple times that it was not meant in the way you keep understanding it. I'd advocate for just accepting that and move on.
I will accept the reason he claims he did NOT bring it up when he explains why he did.
If someone says something bad about me it makes no difference how many times they claim they did not mean to insult me. The only reason I would believe they did not mean to insult me would be if they could could give me some other reason for making the comment other than to insult me.
If he did not bring it up to deflect blame away from police misconduct or place blame on the black community for police misconduct then why did he bring it up? So far he has refused to answer that question.
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(10-30-2020, 06:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is just more proof that you don't understand the problem.
If a man beats his wife would the solution be for her to get out of the house more so that he does not have as many chances to beat her?
That's as facile an analogy as I've ever heard. Honestly, the only conclusion I can draw from this response is that you have no desire to discuss this in good faith, hence I'm ending my side of this "discussion".
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(10-30-2020, 06:25 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That's as facile an analogy as I've ever heard. Honestly, the only conclusion I can draw from this response is that you have no desire to discuss this in good faith, hence I'm ending my side of this "discussion".
All I am pointing out it that if police misconduct is the problem just reducing the number of chances for police misconduct is nit the proper solution. There is nothing facile about that. I am addressing the true underlying issue.
You are the one who does not get it.
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(10-30-2020, 06:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I will accept the reason he claims he did NOT bring it up when he explains why he did.
If someone says something bad about me it makes no difference how many times they claim they did not mean to insult me. The only reason I would believe they did not mean to insult me would be if they could could give me some other reason for making the comment other than to insult me.
If he did not bring it up to deflect blame away from police misconduct or place blame on the black community for police misconduct then why did he bring it up? So far he has refused to answer that question.
Yeah well, he clarified that he did not mean it in the way others accused him of meaning it, he even apologized for any misunderstanding, yet folks would not let it go and insist on tieing it to racial profiling or judging individuals by a stereotype and whatnot. At which point he finally stopped addressing it. And I would not make any further comments in this environment either.
Why he said it, I dare not speak on someone else's behalf and say for certain, but from context it seems quite clear to me imho. It was a reply to the statement that the problem are two firmly entrenched sides. To which he replied, well, there is some other issue I'd consider a problem. Which I find fair enough, especially since what he said is factually true. He then also claimed that nothing gets fixed if addressing this problem gets you being called racist, which is fair enough as well. Not necessarily points I'd make maybe, but from the conversation and his ongoing assurance that he wants inner cities to thrive, have good education systems and be lifted out of poverty and that he teaches his kids to never treat anyone differently based on skin color it is quite clear as it can be that he was not speaking with nefarious motives. And yet, people keep being in his hair and demand further clarifications and are not content with those that were given. Enough already.
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(10-30-2020, 06:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I will accept the reason he claims he did NOT bring it up when he explains why he did.
If someone says something bad about me it makes no difference how many times they claim they did not mean to insult me. The only reason I would believe they did not mean to insult me would be if they could could give me some other reason for making the comment other than to insult me.
If he did not bring it up to deflect blame away from police misconduct or place blame on the black community for police misconduct then why did he bring it up? So far he has refused to answer that question.
Gosh effing dang man! You are worse than a mother effin', naggin', bitchin' wife!!!!!!!!!! I didn't insult anybody!!!! Efff!!
I freakin' said what I said because I am tired of the police being vilified and then yet another riot/looting happening after every "negative" police action that happens even though it was justified. I didn't say the police were justified because blacks have a high crime rate! WTF!!
I am tired of the looting and rioting and the destruction of black neighborhoods by the very people that live there making life even worse for the people that are already struggling to get by. It's sad to watch, complete BS, causes even more division and is an utter and complete failure of the local governments to keep it's citizens safe!!
I am not deflecting blame. If the cops do something wrong they should be held accountable. I never said the crime rate justified police shootings or police violence or racial profiling or whatever the hell you were trying to imply I said. I don't even know what you are trying to accuse me of at this point!!!!
I am saying the inner city black communities have a serious problem with crime, violence and fatherlessness and it needs to be addressed or this crap is never going to end and I am personally sick and tired of watching peoples businesses and neighborhoods being destroyed.
I already stated I want to see nothing but the best for the black community and the inner cities. The more they thrive the better for our Country and the more unity and less divisiveness it will bring to us.
Are you effing happy now Frederick????? Efffffffff!!!!!!
And please Frederick, find the post where I said I am not very emotional and put a stupid, effin' laughing emoji after it so you can feel super smart and superior. Efffff!!!!
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Article on yahoo saying how downtown areas of cities are boarding up like a hurricane is coming due to election night violence. Then, predictably, it goes on to suggest how rightwing groups are the reason for it.
Yes, that's right. A Biden victory will cause massive looting/protests in the cities.
The msm propaganda is absurd, and has been for some time. Unfortunately they removed the comment section a while back. It would be a delight to read.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/pretty-scary-businesses-boarding-anticipation-200030251.html
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(10-30-2020, 09:52 PM)Von Cichlid Wrote: Article on yahoo saying how downtown areas of cities are boarding up like a hurricane is coming due to election night violence. Then, predictably, it goes on to suggest how rightwing groups are the reason for it.
Yes, that's right. A Biden victory will cause massive looting/protests in the cities.
The msm propaganda is absurd, and has been for some time. Unfortunately they removed the comment section a while back. It would be a delight to read.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/pretty-scary-businesses-boarding-anticipation-200030251.html
Because we've seen how much those rightwing folks protest and riot when they don't get their way.
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Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
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(11-12-2020, 02:41 PM)GMDino Wrote: 
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/civil-war-brewing-inside-proud-boys-as-top-leader-says-hes-done-pretending-isnt-a-nazi/#.X6wngHlMhsI.twitter
Well the USA is undefeated against Nazi's so best of luck to that guy. Odd he's wearing a USA hat when he's out to go to war with the USA, but ehh...whatever.
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(11-12-2020, 02:56 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Well the USA is undefeated against Nazi's so best of luck to that guy. Odd he's wearing a USA hat when he's out to go to war with the USA, but ehh...whatever.
If this article is true then you can't not label that group as extremists, at least any who remain in it.
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(11-12-2020, 02:58 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: If this article is true then you can't not label that group as extremists, at least any who remain in it.
Maybe I misread it as civil war for the usa...so the proud boys themselves are having issues with how extreme they should be? If that's the case I just think many of them realize they are getting closer to having to back up their zeal for "fighting and dying for what is right."
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(11-12-2020, 02:41 PM)GMDino Wrote:
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/civil-war-brewing-inside-proud-boys-as-top-leader-says-hes-done-pretending-isnt-a-nazi/#.X6wngHlMhsI.twitter
How is that dude the "Top Leader" when he says he's at odds with decisions made by the Chairman?
I think if I were looking for an article to show Proud Boys is not a White Nationalist organization; I'd use this one.
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https://wtop.com/local/2020/11/trump-supporters-morning-protests-turn-into-violent-clashes/
Seems whenever Trump supporters try to exercise their 1st Amendment Right, folks want to fight them:
Quote:Demonstrations over President Donald Trump’s loss at the polls have resulted in charges against nearly two dozen people in Washington, including a person accused of setting off a commercial firework and four people accused in an assault that left the victim unconscious on the street.
What is the purpose of the "counter demonstrators" in this matter, besides trying to stir shit up?
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(11-16-2020, 01:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What is the purpose of the "counter demonstrators" in this matter, besides trying to stir shit up?
To support democratic elections.
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(11-16-2020, 01:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: https://wtop.com/local/2020/11/trump-supporters-morning-protests-turn-into-violent-clashes/
Seems whenever Trump supporters try to exercise their 1st Amendment Right, folks want to fight them:
What is the purpose of the "counter demonstrators" in this matter, besides trying to stir shit up?
To counter a baseless fraud allegation that undermines the integrity of our elections?
An allegation which, 24 failed lawsuits later, has yet to be substantiated in court?
Everything in this post is my fault.
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(11-16-2020, 02:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: To support democratic elections.
I'm sure many Americans support Democratic elections. Doesn't mean I need to "counter protest" folks that have organized to make their voices heard. Plan and organize your own "Support Democratic Elections" rally and I will be against any group that shows up to counter protest and cause conflict.
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