NFL Protest

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-29-2017, 01:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Rich people do heinous stuff too, they just have a much easier time getting away with it.  When I was a teenager I remember my old man telling me to be careful what I did even if others were doing it too because he had neither the money, influence, nor inclination to save my ass.

Sounds like my house growing up.....wouldn't trade it for the world.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-29-2017, 01:36 PM)WhoDeyandtheBlowFish Wrote: The wealth gap in this country continues to grow at an alarming rate.  

It hasn't been this way since the Gilded Age.....which was followed by?

[*Nately120*]

(09-29-2017, 01:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The ones bringing up color are the racists here.

I don't care if you are red, white, black or purple.

It is what you do and say that matters.

Yeah, that's why we had two white ultra-rich people with sleazy as hell backgrounds to choose from to lead us.  Life isn't fair.  I know admitting that is a little scary, but it's the truth.

(09-29-2017, 01:56 PM)Wyche Wrote: It hasn't been this way since the Gilded Age.....which was followed by?

The disco age?

[sandwedge]

(09-29-2017, 01:19 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why should we accept it be acceptable to rob and commit violent crimes because someone grew up poor? I grew up poor, 7 kids in a 3 bedroom house. I went to schools that were no that great. None of us robbed or killed anyone, never even thought it. Just the opposite, we were raised to work hard and be better financially and respect others always.

So sorry, to me there is no excuse to be a criminal whether you are white, black, rich or poor.

I'm jealous, my 6 siblings and I had 1 bathroom! Seriously, I agree with everything you said. Being poor doesn't give someone the right to commit crimes. I have been involved with The First Tee Program for about 5 years now as a golf instructor. I travel around the country and do clinics and training for other coaches. We bring out inner city children. I will be honest here, these kids are very respectful, yes sir, yes ma'am. You can tell they want to be there. Maybe that is their escape... 

[WhoDeyandtheBlowFish]

(09-29-2017, 01:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I blame Kaepernick, he is the one that brought this shit up. He hates America, hence why he wears a Fidel Castro shirt.

Sure the fashion choices are a bit misplaced.

However, to say he hates america is totally off base.  

Think of it this way.  Which is more patriotic?  Trying to make your country a better place FOR ALL and truly the greatest country on earth.  Or to ignore all faults because you believe in American exceptionalism and the status quo?

We should strive to be the best country in the world.  The land of the free.  Justice for all. etc.

Not just plant our flag and declare it true.

[sandwedge]

(09-29-2017, 01:55 PM)Wyche Wrote: Sounds like my house growing up.....wouldn't trade it for the world.

I know it's a different time now, but hell I had to keep my nose clean because of the fear of God my father put in me! I thank him everyday for that now.

[sandwedge]

Has anyone ever taken the time to read the "laws" of flying the flag? I spent 25 years in the military and I get annoyed by it not being properly displayed. Especially when people think it's fashionable to wear an image of the flag as fashion. Only a person in the service should wear a patch of the flag. Someone should tell Kid Rock that it isn't a poncho!

[sandwedge]

(09-29-2017, 02:03 PM)WhoDeyandtheBlowFish Wrote: Sure the fashion choices are a bit misplaced.

However, to say he hates america is totally off base.  

Think of it this way.  Which is more patriotic?  Trying to make your country a better place FOR ALL and truly the greatest country on earth.  Or to ignore all faults because you believe in American exceptionalism and the status quo?

We should strive to be the best country in the world.  The land of the free.  Justice for all. etc.

Not just plant our flag and declare it true.

Well said

[CJD]

(09-29-2017, 01:09 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: Why dont the black athletes protest the white people being murdered by the cops too then?  I think people would more likely get on board with backing people up if it was equal. Even though the percentage is higher there are still twice as many white people killed by the police as blacks. 

I guess I am different. If I see an unarmed black/white man gunned down by cops when he is complying, then I am equally pissed off and I want answers.  When I see a cop doing his job and a career criminal is resisting arrest and he gets shot, too damn bad. 

The problem is unarmed white man gunned down, statistically, is relatively rare, especially compared to the unarmed black men being gunned down.

a stat like this comes to mind: "Of all of the unarmed people shot and killed by police in 2015, 40 percent of them were black men, even though black men make up just 6 percent of the nation’s population."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.e9cec15f5886





I am not a mathematician, so I don't want to try to determine the relative chance of 6% of a population making up 40% of a scenario, but a layman approach is that's approximately 6.66x higher than it should be (40/6). In theory, a percentage of victims of a crime being black should perfectly mirror that the percentage of the population that is black. It'll never be perfectly like that, but you'd hope it would be close.


over 6x higher than it should be doesn't seem right.


Conversely, that only leaves 60% of the victims that are not black.  White people are ~62% of the American population, so that means that white people are shot less than the equivalent of their population density. I.E. There are more white people in America than any other race, but they are not shot as often as any other race.


You could argue that this is due to the way the different races react to the police or the relative crime rate of said races, but you can't deny that those numbers are troubling.


So should we be outraged when a white person who is unarmed is shot? Of course. But is it actually a problem in America right now that white people are essentially being hunted by the police? It doesn't appear to be.


If there was a story about a white unarmed man being killed by the police, I think outrage is the correct response. The problem is those stories aren't even remotely as common as the ones regarding unarmed black men. 


And that's what this protest is trying to point out and correct.

[*ochocincos*]

I wish patriotism wasn't pushed in everyone's faces like it has become. Let people choose to be patriotic or not.

Remember when it came out that the Department of Defense paid millions of dollars to the NFL in exchange for display of patriotism during games starting in 2009?
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/pentagon-paid-nfl-displays-patriotism/

Quote:That changed in 2009, as the Department of Defense poured millions of dollars into the NFL in exchange for displays of patriotism during games. “Until 2009, no NFL player stood for the national anthem because players actually stayed in the locker room as the anthem played,” ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith explained in 2016. “The players were moved to the field during the national anthem because it was seen as a marketing strategy to make the athletes look more patriotic. The United States Department of Defense paid the National Football League $5.4 million between 2011 and 2014, and the National Guard $6.7 million between 2013 and 2015 to stage onfield patriotic ceremonies as part of military-recruitment budget line items.”

[McC]

Maybe it's time for this thread and future such threads to get out of JN and into P&R, where it belongs, so we can get back to football.

[Tiger Teeth]

(09-29-2017, 03:01 PM)McC Wrote: Maybe it's time for this thread and future such threads to get out of JN and into P&R, where it belongs, so we can get back to football.

I agree.  This topic just leads to discussions and arguments not even related to football.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

The public doesn't see a protest to bring attention to police brutality of African Americans. No, they see ungrateful millionaires protesting a country that gave them their fame and fortune.

I know the majority of NFL players are not millionaires but the majority of the public does not. Then when the originator of the protest is seen and portrayed as a Communist who hates the country who loved him, his protest becomes about him hating the country and not police brutality.

I'm talking about perception here, not reality. The perception is that most of the public now sees the entire NFL as spitting on the country and wiping their asses with the symbol of that country. I know that isn't what the players wanted but that's what they got because of how they protested.

[WhoDeyandtheBlowFish]

(09-29-2017, 03:29 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: The public doesn't see a protest to bring attention to police brutality of African Americans. No, they see ungrateful millionaires protesting a country that gave them their fame and fortune.

I know the majority of NFL players are not millionaires but the majority of the public does not. Then when the originator of the protest is seen and portrayed as a Communist who hates the country who loved him, his protest becomes about him hating the country and not police brutality.

I'm talking about perception here, not reality. The perception is that most of the public now sees the entire NFL as spitting on the country and wiping their asses with the symbol of that country. I know that isn't what the players wanted but that's what they got because of how they protested.

Agreed.  The perception of the protest has been hijacked.  Which isn't surprising when you think that the majority of people who have this misconception think the original cause of the protest is a myth.

I see this argument all the time.  You're rich.  You play in the NFL.  Why are you protesting????

It's like people don't know what empathy is.  It's possible to be sympathetic to a cause even if it doesn't effect you directly.

[Daddy-O]

(09-28-2017, 10:29 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Just play "America the Beautiful" instead.

It wouldn't matter, they'd protest that also.  It's all about ME these days.

Heck, I can't protest at work.  Not sure why these guys are able to do it either.  The NFL needs to draw a line in the sand and start fining players that jeopardize their brand, or just fire them like would be the fate of the rest of us - of course the spineless owners wouldn't allow it.  

Everyone has the right to free speech but not at a private workplace.  Rules are rules.  Make them and enforce them.  Last thing I need to see is somebody else's political views at an event I pay many for entertainment.  Puke!

[*jason*]

(09-28-2017, 11:32 PM)Shepdawg Wrote: My biggest issue with the NFL protests is President Trump's faux outrage to the protest. Somehow Americans waving the Nazi flag in Charlottesville Va. is less offensive to our American Flag and to our Military troops than kneeling during the Anthem? Or did I miss President Trump calling the Nazi flag wavers SOB's and calling on them to fired? If I did miss him saying that, please direct me to where he condemned the actions of the Nazi flag wavers as strongly as he has the players taking a knee during the Anthem. So I ask everyone here who wants to condemn the players. Will you step up and admit that actions taken in Virginia and at rally's across the country where the Nazi flags are being waved by other Americans, are FAR more disrespectful to those that have fought the very Nazi's they are cheering, those who have died for our freedoms, to our current military troops and to our own American flag? Where is the Donald Trump saying that many many sides are to blame for the protests at NFL games? Does he reserve that only for protests where the side he supports gets out of line? Before President Trump can be taken seriously, he MUST be consistent in condemning the actions of those that have taken far more egregious actions in the disrespect shown to our troops and our flag.

If you're searching for logic and self awareness in today's society, you are going to be disappointed. The nerve of some of these bumpkins that boo these players DURING the national anthem is beyond me.

If you don't like it quit watching.

Oh and by the way... American citizens are in crisis on an island, somewhere a bridge is in desperate need of repair, kids are going hungry in this country, some folks can't afford medications they need to survive, so on and so forth... But let's focus on this trivial shit.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-29-2017, 03:42 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: It wouldn't matter, they'd protest that also.  It's all about ME these days.

Heck, I can't protest at work.  Not sure why these guys are able to do it either.  The NFL needs to draw a line in the sand and start fining players that jeopardize their brand, or just fire them like would be the fate of the rest of us - of course the spineless owners wouldn't allow it.  

Everyone has the right to free speech but not at a private workplace.  Rules are rules.  Make them and enforce them.  Last thing I need to see is somebody else's political views at an event I pay many for entertainment.  Puke!

So you're upset because it affects you?

[HarleyDog]

I'm surprised this has not moved to p&r yet? However, I'm impressed how this has been respectfully discussed in this forum without personal attacks. Maybe it will remain here because of that factor.

[WhoDeyandtheBlowFish]

(09-29-2017, 05:11 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I'm surprised this has not moved to p&r yet? However, I'm impressed how this has been respectfully discussed in this forum without personal attacks. Maybe it will remain here because of that factor.

I agree.  It was really refreshing to take part and read this discussion.  Everyone here, while having strong, differing opinions, kept it civil.

This is the type of dialogue that needs to happen.  I sincerely respect everyone here.  Way to be.

[treee]

Most people don't care, yet here we are talking about it anyway.