Nancy Pelosi is too far Right for the Democrat base

[GMDino]

(09-20-2017, 02:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And we have no idea how many White Supremacists are eligible to/ did vote; but it didn't stop folks from jumping to the conclusion.

Is it safe to assume more of the Nazis in Charlottesville were eligible to vote than DACA recipients?

(09-20-2017, 02:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My point was not one seeded in logic; simply what folks come up with in their heads.

Welcome back!

[BmorePat87]

(09-20-2017, 02:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And we have no idea how many White Supremacists are eligible to/ did vote; but it didn't stop folks from jumping to the conclusion.

My point was not one seeded in logic; simply what folks come up with in their heads.

I'm guessing their eligibility is more than 0%. 

[*bfine32*]

(09-20-2017, 02:43 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'm guessing their eligibility is more than 0%. 

While you're guessing. Are you also guessing that 0 % of DACA members voted?


Anywho, that was not the point; regardless how hard you try to deflect (I thought you had a big issue with that).

The point is more what those steeped in ignorance think (regardless of the comments from the forum's Teflon Don). Many think White Supremacist are Trump's base without having any knowledge of the extend and now there are those suggesting these DACA recipients are a base.

[JustWinBaby]

(09-20-2017, 02:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And we have no idea how many White Supremacists are eligible to/ did vote; but it didn't stop folks from jumping to the conclusion.

My point was not one seeded in logic; simply what folks come up with in their heads.

There are millions of hispanics registered to vote, legally.  And they have many friends and family for whom this is an issue, and it's why immigration is so important to them.  Which is why this is such a big issue for Democrats.

If you look at registered members of white supremeacy organizations, I'm pretty sure that number is less than 100k.

Hispanics are a significant voting bloc.  White supremacists are a rounding error.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-20-2017, 05:11 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: There are millions of hispanics registered to vote, legally.  And they have many friends and family for whom this is an issue, and it's why immigration is so important to them.  Which is why this is such a big issue for Democrats.

If you look at registered members of white supremeacy organizations, I'm pretty sure that number is less than 100k.

Hispanics are a significant voting bloc.  White supremacists are a rounding error.

Where do they keep the membership rolls so we can check your < 100k claim?

[*bfine32*]

(09-20-2017, 05:11 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: There are millions of hispanics registered to vote, legally.  And they have many friends and family for whom this is an issue, and it's why immigration is so important to them.  Which is why this is such a big issue for Democrats.

If you look at registered members of white supremeacy organizations, I'm pretty sure that number is less than 100k.

Hispanics are a significant voting bloc.  White supremacists are a rounding error.

This was my point. We spend too much time hating others for doing exactly what we do.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-20-2017, 02:35 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If there was indeed a "rash" of illegals voting, why would Trump need a voter fraud commission to prove his false claims of voter fraud?

More damn tax dollars wasted on investigating his lies.

Show me one politician who has suggested open borders.

1. Because progressive politicians forced him to look into voter fraud.

2. Not a waste of money when it continually comes up with fraudulent voters.

3. There are plenty who suggest open borders.

[JustWinBaby]

(09-20-2017, 05:16 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Where do they keep the membership rolls so we can check your < 100k claim?

A few organizations, and possibly the FBI have estimates.  KKK, which is probably the largest, is estimated to have only between 5-8k members nationally.  Some 500+ groups you might lump in as "white supremacist" but most of the larger ones only have a few hundred members.

There are roughly 1600, I think, "hate" organizations tracked nationally....white supremacist organizations have actually been on the decline, while black separatist and anti-muslim organizations have been increasing.

Google and reading is a powerful thing.  You should try it.

[Dill]

(09-20-2017, 02:02 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Why would you even post this knowing there has been a rash of cases of illegals voting across the country.  

And the leftist base wants what these clowns want anyway..... open borders and amnesty for all.

Links? or some evidence, at least, other than Trump claims?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-20-2017, 05:23 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 1. Because progressive politicians forced him to look into voter fraud.

2. Not a waste of money when it continually comes up with fraudulent voters.

3. There are plenty who suggest open borders.

I asked for just one. It's a pretty low bar. Even for you. Still waiting.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-20-2017, 05:39 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: A few organizations, and possibly the FBI have estimates.  KKK, which is probably the largest, is estimated to have only between 5-8k members nationally.  Some 500+ groups you might lump in as "white supremacist" but most of the larger ones only have a few hundred members.

There are roughly 1600, I think, "hate" organizations tracked nationally....white supremacist organizations have actually been on the decline, while black separatist and anti-muslim organizations have been increasing.

Google and reading is a powerful thing.  You should try it.

A "few" "estimates". "Possibly."

That's some rock solid data you got there. Could you be more equivocal?

[StLucieBengal]

(09-20-2017, 06:41 PM)Dill Wrote: Links? or some evidence, at least, other than Trump claims?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/amp/peru-native-who-voted-illegally-two-u-s-elections-now-n746721

Google away. More where this came from.

https://www.fairus.org/issue/societal-impact/noncitizens-voting-violations-and-us-elections

[hollodero]

(09-20-2017, 02:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And we have no idea how many White Supremacists are eligible to/ did vote; but it didn't stop folks from jumping to the conclusion.

Well, the jump did come easier after David Duke said to the cameras "that's why we voted for Donald Trump".

And the whole issue with Nazis and White supremacists isn't about the number of their votes, but the reaction of Trump and his supporters after finding these people in his camp. The Democrats sure are willing to go for the dreamer's future vote, the immigrant's actual vote too. The equation is flawed to me though, since on the one side there are immigrants and dreamers (normal people) and on the other side there are Nazis and White supremacists (earth's scum). I would expect Trump to denounce their vote and I wouldn't expect Pelosi to equally denounce an immigrant's vote, even when they stormed her speech (which of course is way out of line) plus somehow got to vote illegally (which really is jumping to a conclusion that doesn't come quite as natural as believing David Duke voted for Trump). An immigrant isn't a Nazi and a speech storm isn't exactly a Nazi parade.

[BmorePat87]

(09-20-2017, 04:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: While you're guessing. Are you also guessing that 0 % of DACA members voted?

No, it's possible some managed to vote, but given data on the relative lack of voter fraud in this country I have to assume it was far less than 1%.

I didn't think this would get to a place where I have to mention that we have statistics to help us know how many naturalized citizens are eligible to vote, how many white people voted in 2016, and how many people vote illegally, but I guess I forgot after that long absence. 

Quote:Anywho, that was not the point; regardless how hard you try to deflect (I thought you had a big issue with that).

The point is more what those steeped in ignorance think (regardless of the comments from the forum's Teflon Don). Many think White Supremacist are Trump's base without having any knowledge of the extend and now there are those suggesting these DACA recipients are a base.

I'm not sure what I am deflecting from as I offered you a more accurate point to criticize liberals with. I look forward to another snark filled response in place of just saying "that's right, they can't vote, my bad".  :andy:

[BmorePat87]

(09-20-2017, 06:45 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I asked for just one.  It's a pretty low bar. Even for you. Still waiting.

3,000,000-5,000,000 claimed illegal votes just for Hillary. That's 1 out of every 25 votes. 

Surely someone could have found something now. 

[*bfine32*]

(09-20-2017, 09:24 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, the jump did come easier after David Duke said to the cameras "that's why we voted for Donald Trump".

And the whole issue with Nazis and White supremacists isn't about the number of their votes, but the reaction of Trump and his supporters after finding these people in his camp. The Democrats sure are willing to go for the dreamer's future vote, the immigrant's actual vote too. The equation is flawed to me though, since on the one side there are immigrants and dreamers (normal people) and on the other side there are Nazis and White supremacists (earth's scum). I would expect Trump to denounce their vote and I wouldn't expect Pelosi to equally denounce an immigrant's vote, even when they stormed her speech (which of course is way out of line) plus somehow got to vote illegally (which really is jumping to a conclusion that doesn't come quite as natural as believing David Duke voted for Trump). An immigrant isn't a Nazi and a speech storm isn't exactly a Nazi parade.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying Pelosi shouldn't denounce illegal activity? And I'm pretty sure Trump has denounced White supremacists and their vote. 

The point of my original post is that those that are considering illegal immigrants as a voting base for the left are every bit as ignorant that consider white supremacists a voting base for the right. Perhaps it hit a nerve with some. 

If you were to take a learned guess who would you say casts the most votes in the past National Election: The 8,000 members of the KKK or 12,000,000 immigrants not authorized to vote? 

[*bfine32*]

(09-20-2017, 10:58 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: No, it's possible some managed to vote, but given data on the relative lack of voter fraud in this country I have to assume it was far less than 1%.

I didn't think this would get to a place where I have to mention that we have statistics to help us know how many naturalized citizens are eligible to vote, how many white people voted in 2016, and how many people vote illegally, but I guess I forgot after that long absence. 



I'm not sure what I am deflecting from as I offered you a more accurate point to criticize liberals with. I look forward to another snark filled response in place of just saying "that's right, they can't vote, my bad".  :andy:

So we'll take your estimate of about 120,000. How many member of White Supremacist organizations do you think voted and do you think either was a voting base?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-20-2017, 11:01 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: 3,000,000-5,000,000 claimed illegal votes just for Hillary. That's 1 out of every 25 votes. 

Surely someone could have found something now. 

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/dxhtvk/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-suppressing-the-vote

[hollodero]

(09-21-2017, 12:00 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying Pelosi shouldn't denounce illegal activity?

Well, of course I'm not saying that. She does denounce it, and the protesters don't see her as supportive. They keep protesting her and don't feel she's on their side.

(09-21-2017, 12:00 AM)bfine32 Wrote: And I'm pretty sure Trump has denounced White supremacists and their vote. 

Problem is, the white supremacists are not so sure about that. Which they openly say, they are quite happy with Trump and do feel he is supportive. They are not protesting him.
That's different.
Now why that is, why they feel emboldened, I just have my educated guess. I'd say because they recieved the denouncement message in quite the way the left feared it would be recieved: as forced and just part of a political game, intwined in whataboutisms, in the end supportive.

- Also, still, white supremacists and immigrants, not quite a good comparison. But whatever.

(09-21-2017, 12:00 AM)bfine32 Wrote: The point of my original post is that those that are considering illegal immigrants as a voting base for the left are every bit as ignorant that consider white supremacists a voting base for the right. Perhaps it hit a nerve with some. 

If you were to take a learned guess who would you say casts the most votes in the past National Election: The 8,000 members of the KKK or 12,000,000 immigrants not authorized to vote? 

As for the question, I lean towards the unauthorized immigrants. Your whole voting process seems a bit dubious to me, and not quite that secure.

I of course wouldn't call that a voter base. (New American citizens are a democratic voting base I guess.) On the other side, I wouldn't reduce white supremacy to 8.000 KKK members. Of course most Trump voters aren't supremacists. With Steve Bannon, I dare not say though. Same goes for a certain portion of Breitbart readers. There's quite a grey area, and declared KKK members are just an extreme (extremely dumb) part of a certain base that isn't quite as distanced to supremacist ideas as some might wish. Like I see, say, Bannon, who is way too intelligent for the tiki torch. When I see this special portion of the electorate and their voices, I see a voting base that isn't free of supremacist ideas and I don't feel ignorant in doing so.

Nah, I get why one might see that differently, but I disagree with the absoluteness of your "equally ignorant" statement. In the end, for me all these equivalencies have the feel of "defending Trump" to it, in this case for allegedly being too close to white supremacy. And that this defending goes along with wrongfully reducing the white supremacy base to 8.000 KKK idiots. Hate and destruction tend to spread when emboldened, and accidentally or not, the David Dukes feel emboldened. It matters and shall not be discussed away with unfitting equivalencies.

(Because I already said so much, I will add that I also feel that even though maybe small in numbers, I feel like Trump doesn't want to lose the supremacist vote, which gives it political weight. But that's just my impression, based on my experience with my politicians and their misunderstood denouncements).

[GMDino]

(09-21-2017, 12:04 AM)bfine32 Wrote: So we'll take your estimate of about 120,000. How many member of White Supremacist organizations do you think voted and do you think either was a voting base?

How many racists/white supremacists that don't belong to an "organization" do you think voted?