Nigerian Army Uses Trump’s Words to Justify Fatal Shooting of Rock-Throwing Protester

[GMDino]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/02/world/africa/nigeria-trump-rocks.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Quote:The Nigerian Army, part of a military criticized for rampant human rights abuses, on Friday used the words of President Trump to justify its fatal shootings of rock-throwing protesters.


Soldiers opened fire this past Monday on a march of about 1,000 Islamic Shia activists who had been blocking traffic in the capital, Abuja. Videos circulated on social media showed several protesters hurling rocks at the heavily armed soldiers who then shot fleeing protesters in the back.


The Nigerian military said three protesters were killed but the toll appears to have been much higher.
Amnesty International as well as leaders of the protest said more than 40 people were killed at the march and two other smaller marches, with more than 100 wounded by bullets. A Reuters reporter counted 20 bodies at the main march.

Human rights activists and many ordinary citizens were outraged at the military’s response, which echoed a similar confrontation in 2015, when soldiers killed nearly 350 protesters from the same group, the Islamic Movement of Nigeria, the largest and most recognizable face of Shia Islam in the country. The group organizes frequent protest marches.

Early Friday morning, the military responded to the criticism.


The Army’s official Twitter account posted a video, “Please Watch and Make Your Deductions,” showing Mr. Trump’s anti-migrant speech on Thursday in which he said rocks would be considered firearms if thrown toward the American military at the nation’s borders.

[/url]

Quote:
Nigerian Army

@HQNigerianArmy




Please Watch and Make your Deductions.
3:48 AM - Nov 2, 2018

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“We’re not going to put up with that,” Mr. Trump said in the clip. “They want to throw rocks at our military, our military fights back.”

In Nigeria, Mr. Trump is a popular figure among many people who praise what they regard as his straightforwardness and frank talk despite his reported insult to the nation last year when he said Nigerians in the United States would never “go back to their huts” in Africa.

Finally!  Trump has found a country will listen to him and do as he says! 

[fredtoast]

Not commenting on if the military should be there in the first place, but anyone who attacks the military with anything should expect to get shot.

I don't want our military anywhere they should not be, but if people attack them with rocks they should be shot.

[GMDino]

UPDATE!

Trump goes soft.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-troops-not-fire-migrant-caravan-190623842.html

Quote:President Donald Trump on Friday backtracked from his suggestion a day earlier that U.S. troops sent to the U.S. border with Mexico would be free to fire on migrants who throw rocks at them, saying that rock-throwers would only be arrested.


"They won't have to fire. What I don't want is I don't want these people throwing rocks," Trump told reporters outside the White House. "If they do that with us, they're going to be arrested for a long time."

Trump's rhetoric on shooting migrants drew criticism from human rights groups that said he was stoking fear ahead of midterm elections. Calling migrants a national security threat "is as absurd as it is cruel," advocacy group Human Rights First said in a statement.

Trump has hardened his stance on immigration in a bid to rouse his political base ahead of congressional elections next week. His Republican party is in an uphill fight to maintain control of the House of
Representatives in elections on Tuesday, although it is expected to pick up seats in the Senate.

The Pentagon said on Monday it was deploying more than 5,200 troops to the border at Trump's direction to confront a caravan of men, women and children travelling through Mexico as they flee violence and poverty in Central America. Trump has characterized it as an "invasion" of migrants.

Mexico has said 2,800 to 3,000 people are in the caravan, which left Honduras in mid-October, although many are expected to drop off before reaching the U.S. border.

On Thursday, Trump suggested the military could fire on migrants who cross the border illegally if they throw rocks at troops. "When they throw rocks like they did at the Mexico military police, I say: Consider it a rifle," Trump said.

Trump also said on Thursday his administration was finalising a plan to block immigrants who do not come into the United States at a legal port of entry from applying for asylum, although federal law allows any immigrant in the United States to do so.

Still, migrant caravans have pressed on. On Friday, a smaller caravan from El Salvador crossed through a river to enter the Mexico's southern state of Chiapas.

Do you think someone takes him aside and tells him how his words are hurting whatever "cause" he thinks he fighting for?  I wonder who he really listens to?

[fredtoast]

(11-02-2018, 05:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: UPDATE!

Trump goes soft.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-troops-not-fire-migrant-caravan-190623842.html



Do you think someone takes him aside and tells him how his words are hurting whatever "cause" he thinks he fighting for?  I wonder who he really listens to?

You don't shoot people for marching, protesting, or yelling.  But throwing rocks can be very dangerous.  Anyone who throws a rock at a soldier should expect to get shot.  I respect our troops and would never ask them to be hit with rocks and not defend themselves.

[GMDino]

(11-02-2018, 06:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You don't shoot people for marching, protesting, or yelling.  But throwing rocks can be very dangerous.  Anyone who throws a rock at a soldier should expect to get shot.  I respect our troops and would never ask them to be hit with rocks and not defend themselves.

Especially kids and mothers! 

I'm just kidding Jerusalem founded a whole system on shooting people throwing those dangerous rocks.  

[*michaelsean*]

(11-02-2018, 09:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: Especially kids and mothers! 

I'm just kidding Jerusalem founded a whole system on shooting people throwing those dangerous rocks.  

Well I would say Darwinism comes into play. If you throw rocks at soldiers you’re an idiot, and while I’m not sure having soldiers there is legal I’m not sure how that law goes, they have no choice and shouldn’t have to stand there and take it. I’m not saying they just mow people over, but if you assault soldiers and get hurt or killed, that’s on you.

[GMDino]

(11-02-2018, 10:10 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well I would say Darwinism comes into play.  If you throw rocks at soldiers you’re an idiot, and while I’m not sure having soldiers there is legal, they have no choice and shouldn’t have to stand there and take it. I’m not saying they just mow people over, but if you assault soldiers and get hurt or killed, that’s on you.

Well Trump disagree with you and now will only arrest them...somehow.

[Dill]

(11-02-2018, 06:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You don't shoot people for marching, protesting, or yelling.  But throwing rocks can be very dangerous.  Anyone who throws a rock at a soldier should expect to get shot.  I respect our troops and would never ask them to be hit with rocks and not defend themselves.

(11-02-2018, 10:10 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well I would say Darwinism comes into play.  If you throw rocks at soldiers you’re an idiot, and while I’m not sure having soldiers there is legal I’m not sure how that law goes, they have no choice and shouldn’t have to stand there and take it. I’m not saying they just mow people over, but if you assault soldiers and get hurt or killed, that’s on you.

A couple of points guys:

1. Once you start shooting at protestors--into crowds--the chances of hurting innocent participants/bystanders becomes very great. (Speaking as one who remembers Kent State.)  And nothing fires up opposition to authority like dead bodies of the innocent, killed by people sworn to protect citizens. Also, "bad optics" as they say nowdays, even if you don't care about the protestors.

2. There are a few steps on the scale between "taking it" and shooting people. Rubber bullets and fire hoses are in there somewhere, as is tear gas. If children are throwing the rocks then yes, they have to take it.

I should add that the distance from shooting people for throwing rocks to shooting people for "protesting and yelling" may not be very great.

[NATI BENGALS]

Yea. Thats why we have guns. On top of beating bows and arrows. Swords maces and spears... They actually win out over rock throwers too.

Maybe throw poo and attack with a stick. Gun would probably still get you though.

[*michaelsean*]

(11-02-2018, 10:12 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well Trump disagree with you and now will only arrest them...somehow.

So that’s a bad thing now?

[*bfine32*]

I will tell you if rock throwing ever becomes an Olympic event Afghanistan will take the Gold, Silver, and Bronze. As to what Soldiers should do in retaliation what do folks think:

Throw rocks back
Just get hit
Retaliate with superior force

I will say in my experience that the threat of fire arms and zip tying one or 2 of the throwers usually took the starch out of them.

[NATI BENGALS]

(11-02-2018, 11:08 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So that’s a bad thing now?

Yes. Using troops as political pawns. And now putting them in harms way and tying their hands. 

An absolute leadership failure. Smearing his rotten shit where it doesnt belong. Keep your racist loud mouth bullshit on reddit or wherever those two shitheads from last week shared their opinions .

Any escalated tensions on the border in the coming weeks is blood on his hands

[*bfine32*]

(11-02-2018, 11:16 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Yes. Using troops as political pawns. And now putting them in harms way and tying their hands. 

An absolute leadership failure. Smearing his rotten shit where it doesnt belong. Keep your racist loud mouth bullshit on reddit or wherever those two shitheads from last week shared their opinions .

Any escalated tensions in the coming weeks is blood on his hands

Are you suggesting these caravans are a threat to our Military?

Are you suggesting that defending our border is "blood on his hands"? 

[GMDino]

(11-02-2018, 11:16 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Yes. Using troops as political pawns. And now putting them in harms way and tying their hands. 

An absolute leadership failure. Smearing his rotten shit where it doesnt belong. Keep your racist loud mouth bullshit on reddit or wherever those two shitheads from last week shared their opinions .

Any escalated tensions on the border in the coming weeks is blood on his hands

And there is no doubt that is nothing but a political stunt.  The caravan will not be near the border for weeks...but sending them after the election gets Trump nothing.

And they ARE in harm's way.  Not that the people in the caravan will do harm to them...but that they are being put in a no win situation by a feckless leader where THEY will look bad if the shoot at "rock throwers". 

Trump, in his normal fashion, is playing up something to stoke fear among his base just for votes.  And no one on the right has the cajones to call him out for it.  Sad.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

I am with Fred on this one. If you're throwing stones at military in a huge mob, and you get shot, what did you really expect to happen? Gun or not, thrown rocks can kill, and a motivated crowd can still overrun you.

- - - - - - -

As for Dill's #2 point, that might work in America with police, but I don't think Nigeria's military is equipped for such things.

Most photos I can find of them they don't even have any sort of individual body armor. They aren't a NATO country, so they are using probably Soviet and Russian AKs, with Russian ammunition. Not sure Russia's pumping out too many less-than-lethal rounds, or have them in their surplus when you look at the Russian tactic of dealing with hostage takers.

I bet you if you went around polling folk in Nigeria, they wouldn't know about rubber bullets. It's not like in the US where we all know if we riot, throw shit at police, burn cars, and loot stores, it's just going to be a couple tear gas grenades and some occasional bean bag or rubber rounds.

Honestly, we seem to be a minority these days with no military on the streets. It's actually quite funny how people complain about how militarized the police in the US are (they admittedly are a bit), while ignoring that a huge portion of the world is policed by military, and Europe has full on assault rifle and sub machine gun carrying tactical guys patrolling their streets.

We're a bit spoiled here, but in a good way. It's why this country is pretty great, all things considered.

[Dill]

(11-02-2018, 11:28 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: As for Dill's #2 point, that might work in America with police, but I don't think Nigeria's military is equipped for such things.

Most photos I can find of them they don't even have any sort of individual body armor. They aren't a NATO country, so they are using probably Soviet and Russian AKs, with Russian ammunition. Not sure Russia's pumping out too many less-than-lethal rounds, or have them in their surplus when you look at the Russian tactic of dealing with hostage takers.

I bet you if you went around polling folk in Nigeria, they wouldn't know about rubber bullets. It's not like in the US where we all know if we riot, throw shit at police, burn cars, and loot stores, it's just going to be a couple tear gas grenades and some occasional bean bag or rubber rounds.

Honestly, we seem to be a minority these days with no military on the streets. It's actually quite funny how people complain about how militarized the police in the US are (they admittedly are a bit), while ignoring that a huge portion of the world is policed by military, and Europe has full on assault rifle and sub machine gun carrying tactical guys patrolling their streets.

We're a bit spoiled here, but in a good way. It's why this country is pretty great, all things considered.

I think it is great too. But one reason why is that our military generally does not shoot running protestors in the back.


And I know for a fact that Nigerian police have been using rubber bullets since 2012. They even use them on their own politicians.
http://saharareporters.com/2014/01/12/police-fire-rubber-bullets-and-teargas-senator-magnus-abe-port-harcourt

Nigeria has pretty much bought weapons where it could, so some units are still armed with soviet era AKs and others have US M 16s and Swiss Sigs. They also have MRAPS and other vehicles from us which would be very effective for crowd control--if they chose to use them.

[Benton]

Agreed with Fred, if you throw rocks at the military, expect to get shot.

Theres still the issue of the military being involved, though. We have agencies assigned to handle border security. The military, in my opinion, should only be involved if the intent is to use deadly force, not as a peacekeeping unit. I'm completely fine with parking them behind border patrol in the event a peaceful attempt fails, but starting the conversation off with "hey, it's ok to shoot them" is going to escalate things.

[Dill]

(11-02-2018, 11:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I will tell you if rock throwing ever becomes an Olympic event  Afghanistan will take the Gold, Silver, and Bronze. As to what Soldiers should do in retaliation what do folks think:

Throw rocks back
Just get hit
Retaliate with superior force

I will say in my experience that the threat of fire arms and zip tying one or 2 of the throwers usually took the starch out of them.

I heard that you "took the starch out of them" but I did not hear that you actually shot them.  Sounds like there was some middle ground in there, even in a real war zone. 

I am also thinking that shooting unarmed civilians in Afghanistan might have been a big problem for you. You were under COIN doctrine, right?

How old were your rock throwers, typically?

[Dill]

(11-02-2018, 11:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are you suggesting these caravans are a threat to our Military?

Are you suggesting that defending our border is "blood on his hands"? 

There is a threat to our military, but not from the caravan. Rather, the armed militia swarming to the border to "help defend against invaders" poses a problem.
https://boingboing.net/2018/11/01/u-s-military-bracing-for-for.html

Blood spilled defending our border could very well be on Trump's hands, if his xenophobic rhetoric gins up a conflict where none would otherwise be.

[*bfine32*]

(11-03-2018, 12:29 AM)Dill Wrote: There is a threat to our military, but not from the caravan. Rather, the armed militia swarming to the border to "help defend against invaders" poses a problem.
https://boingboing.net/2018/11/01/u-s-military-bracing-for-for.html

Blood spilled defending our border could very well be on Trump's hands, if his xenophobic rhetoric gins up a conflict where none would otherwise be.

Yeah, the last is the part I have a problem with:

Folks are moving to cross into our country illegally

POTUS deploys troops to dissuade this crossing. 

They cross illegally, someone gets shot

POTUS fault!!