Obama's Secret Struggle to Retaliate against Putin

[GMDino]

(06-25-2017, 11:03 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Please show me at any point where Jesus was a coward and worried more for his own legacy over others around him or his followers.  

He also led his people to write the New Testament.

So to be a Beta you must be a coward also?

Like telling your followers to put down their swords while he was being arrested?  Or when Pete was so afraid he denied following (or even knowing) Jesus three times?

And if people write books about all the good things Obama said and did does that elevate him to Alpha?

[StLucieBengal]

(06-25-2017, 11:27 PM)GMDino Wrote: So to be a Beta you must be a coward also?

Like telling your followers to put down their swords while he was being arrested?  Or when Pete was so afraid he denied following (or even knowing) Jesus three times?

And if people write books about all the good things Obama said and did does that elevate him to Alpha?

Jesus took the hit like a man. Like a leader does.... an alpha. If he pulled a beta he would have hidden or pushed it off on someone else. The fact he took the hit and forgave Peter makes him even more of an alpha.

If obama took the hit for holder running guns then holder or others in his administration refused to stand up for him and acknowledge him. And as obama was going to jail he forgave holder ..... then yes he would prove himself.

But as I have stated many times. Obama was worried about his legacy only. And his only accomplishment will be that he got elected and was half black. Other than that he was a failure.

[GMDino]

(06-25-2017, 11:40 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Jesus took the hit like a man.   Like a leader does.... an alpha.  If he pulled a beta he would have hidden or pushed it off on someone else.   The fact he took the hit and forgave Peter makes him even more of an alpha.  

If obama took the hit for holder running guns then holder or others in his administration refused to stand up for him and acknowledge him.   And as obama was going to jail he forgave holder ..... then yes he would prove himself.    

But as I have stated many times.   Obama was worried about his legacy only.   And his only accomplishment will be that he got elected and was half black.  Other than that he was a failure.

You are REALLY all over the place here.

So let's focus on "taking a hit".

Jesus knew he was rising again.  Is that "taking the hit"?  Peter is the Rock of the church...and clearly a Beta.  Clearly a coward.  

Trump has passed off every bad thing to someone else.  Is that "taking the hit"? Clearly a coward also.

And what about the books?!?!  

[Vlad]

(06-23-2017, 10:41 PM)Dill Wrote: A fascinating report by the Washington Post of Obama's handling of the Russian attack on the presidential election.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-putin-election-hacking/?utm_term=.c65cc4282c9c

I noticed you excluded good to know information from that report... 

" Despite the dire warnings, there were no meltdowns in the United States’ voting infrastructure on Nov. 8, no evidence of hacking-related fraud, crashing of electronic ballots or ma­nipu­la­tion of vote counts. "

"Obamas brave struggle" ? lol

Get a clue people.
Obamas struggle was whether or not to go public with this.  That's because the idea that the election of Hillary, a sure thing landslide winner, may be perceived as tainted.

Gee, you wonder why Trump on occasion would whine about the possibility of the election being internally rigged knowing the Russians got his back with that secret deal he made with them lol.

Try and give an honest opinion to this hypothetical without spin or beating around the bush Dill...

Based on the bolded sentence above...
Had Hillary won, would there be this unrelenting attempt by the leftist media and democrats to take Hillary down on charges that she colluded with the Russians?

I say hell no. Even if they were to limit it to just investigating Russian meddling, it would be a lukewarm investigation because Hillary won so all is good.

The fact is Trump won and you folks ain't liking it one bit.

[GMDino]

(06-26-2017, 09:23 AM)Vlad Wrote: Get a clue people.

Try and give an honest opinion to this hypothetical without spin or beating around the bush Dill...

Based on the bolded sentence above...
Had Hillary won, would there be this unrelenting attempt by the leftist media and democrats to take Hillary down on charges that she colluded with the Russians?

I say hell no. Even if they were to limit it to just investigating Russian meddling, it would be a lukewarm investigation because Hillary won so all is good.

The fact is Trump won and you folks ain't liking it one bit.

Honestly, yes.  I think if Clinton had won this "Russian thing" would be huge because Obama didn't go public with it.  The GOP controlled congress would have hearing after hearing to find out how the Russians got the information, where they hacked or tried to, and why Obama didn't do more to defend the sanctity of the voting process.

In between the hearing about he emails, Benghazi and the Clinton Foundation.

Now, for you:  If Clinton had won and appointed her daughter and her husband to powerful positions would you have say quietly?  What would you have said about Clinton's SC nominee?  Would the GOp have continued to vote again and again to "repeal and replace" the ACA and still not have a plan?

Try and give an honest opinion. 

[Dill]

(06-26-2017, 09:23 AM)Vlad Wrote: I noticed you excluded good to know information from that report... 
" Despite the dire warnings, there were no meltdowns in the United States’ voting infrastructure on Nov. 8, no evidence of hacking-related fraud, crashing of electronic ballots or ma­nipu­la­tion of vote counts. "
"Obamas brave struggle" ? lol

Get a clue people.
Obamas struggle was whether or not to go public with this.  That's because the idea that the election of Hillary, a sure thing landslide winner, may be perceived as tainted.

Gee, you wonder why Trump on occasion would whine about the possibility of the election being internally rigged knowing the Russians got his back with that secret deal he made with them lol.

Try and give an honest opinion to this hypothetical without spin or beating around the bush Dill...

Based on the bolded sentence above...
Had Hillary won, would there be this unrelenting attempt by the leftist media and democrats to take Hillary down on charges that she colluded with the Russians?

I say hell no. Even if they were to limit it to just investigating Russian meddling, it would be a lukewarm investigation because Hillary won so all is good.

The fact is Trump won and you folks ain't liking it one bit.

An honest opinion without beating around the Bush?

No, "leftist media" and Democrats would not be trying to take Hillary down on charges she colluded with the Russians--unless there were evidence she colluded with the Russians to lose.  According to the intel we have now, The Russians were working for a Trump win. And it was Trump's people, not Hillary's who forgot or hid all their meetings with Russian operatives. So what would be the evidential foundation for "taking down" Hillary? Why would "leftists" want to investigate Hillary for Trump campaign connections to Moscow?

If Hillary had won, we would have an executive set to further punish the Russians for interfering in the election. Now we have one who denies Russian responsibility, and appears set on protecting Russian interests.

Regarding the "good to know information" which I omitted because it was old news, the article suggests that Obama's interventions, among them a direct warning call to Putin, limited or stopped the hacking of state elections.

Trump has been working to undo Obama sanctions and proposed recalling the Russian operatives Obama expelled. Perhaps the idea came to him as he was giving away state secrets to the Russian Ambassador, whom he invited into the Oval Office without a heads up to the US press--along with an undercover TASS journalist.

And you, obviously, are liking all this very much.

[Dill]

(06-25-2017, 11:05 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: On which dimension do you live on where 2/3rds of the country are against trump?  

Heck he now has 71% approval rating for his temporary Muslim Ban and extreme vetting.

Tracking Trump's approval rating: http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx

In my dimension, undefined by Fox, Trump's approval rating is lower than that of any president six months into office since presidential polling began. Only Bush II has polled consistently as low, and that was only after the Iraq fiasco and a Wall Street meltdown. Trump's numbers are the inverse of Obama's during spring of 2009.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/06/26/poll-trump-approval-plummets-health-care/22981092/
Trump's disapproval also increased by three points up to 57 percent.

[Dill]

(06-25-2017, 11:03 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Please show me at any point where Jesus was a coward and worried more for his own legacy over others around him or his followers.  

He also led his people to write the New Testament.

I don't think he led "his people" to write anything. Going by his own words, he expected the second coming in his lifetime. It's only after that prophecy failed that people began writing down his sayings.

By the way, according to the writings of his followers, the guy said he was the son of God and encouraged his followers to go tell everyone that--despite the very real risks from Romans and Jews. That was their last big job on earth. Why doesn't that qualify as "worry over his legacy"?

Even though his followers were ready to fight, Jesus let the Romans take him in the Garden of Gethsemane, where he was praying to get out of . Muhammad would have stood up to the Romans.  What kind of Alpha says "They who live by the sword shall die by the sword." Jesus had plenty of opportunities to take the fight to the Romans, but chose the Beta road. He even encouraged people to pay Roman taxes. Liberal Jesus was a long ways from the Tea Party, don't you think? The only time he went Alpha was on the money changers in the temple. Elizabeth Warren couldn't have done it better.  He wouldn't even defend himself against Pilate.

So no, Muhammad is definitely the Alpha here. Jesus may not even be a Beta. People who hate "weak" leaders and love "strong" ones need to rethink their role models, or their standards.  If we exclude the Gospel of Thomas, there is nothing in Jesus teachings or life which supports your Alpha-style leadership. Closest you come is his reaffirmation of the ten commandments.

Please show me where Muhammad was a coward and worried more for his own legacy over others around him.

[Vas Deferens]

Someone is going to take their Disney ball and go hide in their gated community like a little beta after that one.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-26-2017, 12:05 PM)Dill Wrote: I don't think he led "his people" to write anything. Going by his own words, he expected the second coming in his lifetime. It's only after that prophecy failed that people began writing down his sayings.

By the way, according to the writings of his followers, the guy said he was the son of God and encouraged his followers to go tell everyone that--despite the very real risks from Romans and Jews. That was their last big job on earth. Why doesn't that qualify as "worry over his legacy"?

Even though his followers were ready to fight, Jesus let the Romans take him in the Garden of Gethsemane, where he was praying to get out of . Muhammad would have stood up to the Romans.  What kind of Alpha says "They who live by the sword shall die by the sword." Jesus had plenty of opportunities to take the fight to the Romans, but chose the Beta road. He even encouraged people to pay Roman taxes. Liberal Jesus was a long ways from the Tea Party, don't you think? The only time he went Alpha was on the money changers in the temple. Elizabeth Warren couldn't have done it better.  He wouldn't even defend himself against Pilate.

So no, Muhammad is definitely the Alpha here. Jesus may not even be a Beta. People who hate "weak" leaders and love "strong" ones need to rethink their role models, or their standards.  If we exclude the Gospel of Thomas, there is nothing in Jesus teachings or life which supports your Alpha-style leadership. Closest you come is his reaffirmation of the ten commandments.

Please show me where Muhammad was a coward and worried more for his own legacy over others around him.

He encouraged everyone to tell His message.  That's not legacy building, and He never encouraged people to pay Roman taxes. He says more than one line in that exchange.

[GMDino]

(06-26-2017, 02:02 PM)michaelsean Wrote: He encouraged everyone to tell His message.  That's not legacy building, and He never encouraged people to pay Roman taxes.  He says more than one line in that exchange.

And one of the lines is to pay your taxes.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-26-2017, 02:04 PM)GMDino Wrote: And one of the lines is to pay your taxes.

No it is not.   He turned it on them, and challenged them to decide what belongs to Caesar and what belongs to God.  His use of the word "image' also brings to mind a certain commandment.  He doesn't say not to pay your taxes, but He most certainly does not encourage it either.

[GMDino]

(06-26-2017, 02:27 PM)michaelsean Wrote: No it is not.   He turned it on them, and challenged them to decide what belongs to Caesar and what belongs to God.  His use of the word "image' also brings to mind a certain commandment.  He doesn't say not to pay your taxes, but He most certainly does not encourage it either.

[/url]

Quote:Paying Taxes to Caesar

…16So they brought it, and He asked them, “Whose likeness is this? And whose inscription?” “Caesar’s,” they answered. 17Then Jesus told them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”And they marveled at Him.

[url=http://biblehub.com/greek/846.htm]

He said pay your taxes.  I don't know why you don't understand that.

And he wasn't the only one to say it. But we're focusing on Jesus being an "alpha" for some reason.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-26-2017, 02:34 PM)GMDino Wrote: [/url]
[url=http://biblehub.com/greek/846.htm]

He said pay your taxes.  I don't know why you don't understand that.

And he wasn't the only one to say it. But we're focusing on Jesus being an "alpha" for some reason.

I don't understand it because it's not what He said. He turned their trap on them. I'm not saying He said not to pay your taxes either. He sidestepped and forced them to declare what is Gods and what is Caesars.

[GMDino]

(06-26-2017, 03:00 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't understand it because it's not what He said. He turned their trap on them.  I'm not saying He said not to pay your taxes either. He sidestepped and forced them to declare what is Gods and what is Caesars.

Yes...give to Caesar what is Caesar's = pay your taxes.  

Not a hard concept.  You're the first person I ever heard say it DIDN'T mean that.

Did he have a deeper meaning? Yes.  But he still said to pay your taxes.  

[StLucieBengal]

(06-26-2017, 03:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: I have to give you credit for finding THE most insane websites to back up whatever your claim of the day is.

No though I know Trump is a Beta because he never fought.  Thanks.

Sorry was this supposed to get a rise out of me? I am not even a trump supporter outside of a few policies. You can call him whatever you wish.

I just said what everyone was already thinking about your boy obama. If it makes you feel better to call trump a name then go ahead. Betas often follow the Alpha so it's not surprising you go straight into calling someone else a beta.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-26-2017, 03:02 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yes...give to Caesar what is Caesar's = pay your taxes.  

Not a hard concept.  You're the first person I ever heard say it DIDN'T mean that.

Did he have a deeper meaning? Yes.  But he still said to pay your taxes.  

So why not a simple yes? He never defines what is Caesar's.  He is leaving that up to them.  And you.  There is no command either way.

We can also get into the coin itself that declares Tiberius to be divine so possessing the coin would be blasphemous.  Notice who has one and who does not.  

[GMDino]

(06-26-2017, 03:34 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So why not a simple yes? He never defines what is Caesar's.  He is leaving that up to them.  And you.  There is no command either way.

We can also get into the coin itself that declares Tiberius to be divine so possessing the coin would be blasphemous.  Notice who has one and who does not.  

Is there anything written where Jesus just said "yes" or "no"? LOL!  He didn't go for brevity to stop a stoning.

But if you want to be a stand alone on this have at it.  

[*michaelsean*]

(06-26-2017, 03:36 PM)GMDino Wrote: Is there anything written where Jesus just said "yes" or "no"? LOL!  He didn't go for brevity to stop a stoning.

But if you want to be a stand alone on this have at it.  

I'm not anywhere near alone.    This was taught to me in school.  God claims everything is His.  Caesar claims everything is his.  The graven image on the coin that proclaims Tiberius' divinity.   Who is carrying the coin and who is not?  And He never declares what belongs to whom. In the end he gave a non-answer and made them look bad. It's interesting to go beneath the surface.

[GMDino]

(06-26-2017, 03:55 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I'm not anywhere near alone.    This was taught to me in school.  God claims everything is His.  Caesar claims everything is his.  The graven image on the coin that proclaims Tiberius' divinity.   Who is carrying the coin and who is not?  And He never declares what belongs to whom.   In the end he gave a non-answer and made them look bad. It's interesting to go beneath the surface.

There are multiple places in the bible where we are told to pay our taxes.

https://www.gotquestions.org/taxes-Bible.html

Including Jesus.

But, again, you're an outlier so enjoy.  This has nothing to do with Russia and Trump.