POTUS UN Speech

[*bfine32*]

(09-22-2017, 06:34 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: And you really think Japan is enjoying a nuclear war ( once again ) close to their land because two stupid people are arguing like kids in a classroom ?

And yes, Trump is the laughing stock of the world at this moment. Deal with it. 

Hey, I'm dealing with it just fine. You might want to refocus your "deal with it' group.

[*jason*]

(09-22-2017, 10:11 AM)hollodero Wrote: Now wait a minute. Austrian is a language. Sort of. OK, it isn't. But on this matter, Trump picked an ambassador to Austria because that man had the qualifications of having seen Sound of Music 75 times. Now that is actually not a blunder, it's deliberately ignorant.

In response, we will send you someone who had seen Dances with Wolves 75 times. Lead him to the Sioux, he's looking for a squaw.

The Lakota... The Lakota.

[Matt_Crimson]

(09-22-2017, 09:47 AM)GMDino Wrote: Trump? 

No, all seriousness aside There is a reason the adults use diplomacy even when it "doesn't work" rather than name call and threaten to destroy other countries.

North Korea is testing nuclear weapons and literally shooting missles over Japan. I don't know how you can defend them.

[GMDino]

(09-22-2017, 10:46 AM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: North Korea is testing nuclear weapons and literally shooting missles over Japan. I don't know how you can defend them.

I'm not defending NK.

I saying that Trump lacks the skills to even contain the situation let alone lessen the threat.

[Belsnickel]

(09-22-2017, 10:46 AM)jason Wrote: The Lakota... The Lakota.

Now, that's just exclusionary. Leaving out the Nakota and the Oglala like that.

Seriously, though, I am against the usage of the word Sioux, as well.

[GMDino]

(09-22-2017, 10:24 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I was actually going to say the same thing as SSF when I first saw Dill's post. In fact, every one of those articles is from before Trump was in office. The difference being that what he said on the campaign trail can be (note I am saying can be, not is) different than actions since he has taken office. Japan rightly got riled by his rhetoric on the campaign trail because of his message being a threat to their security and economy. But, has he enacted policy to that regard and how have the Japanese responded since he has been in office?

We would need articles talking about the views of the Japanese on Trump since he has taken office to really get a good feel for that, and pretending otherwise is just being stubborn.

(09-22-2017, 10:43 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Do you have anything a little more current (Perhaps from this year). Like since NK has been launching missiles over their country?

I'll help you with your research. They recently had a meeting.

(09-22-2017, 10:13 AM)GMDino Wrote: Well it seems the people of japan did not have a high regard for Trump around the election.

http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/2042333/what-japanese-really-think-donald-trump

And based on their view of him:



I'd guess his behavior as POTUS hasn't changed that view much.

I'm sure the politicians are handling it with kid gloves as that is what politicians do (not what Trump does) so they probably haven't said anything too negative publicly.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/15/asia/japan-north-korea-missile-reaction/index.html

Quote:CNN's Tokyo producer Yoko Wakatsuki said broader reaction in Tokyo and across national media was more measured.




"People know what North Korea is doing is a little bit of provocation ... they know this is not a direct attack to Japan, it's not an overture to war," CNN Tokyo producer Yoko Wakatsuki said.

But underneath the calm exterior, Friday's launch has widened a growing fault line in the ideological war over how Japan should deal with the North Korean threat to the region.

Abe's government have sought closer ties with the United States while working to change Japan's post-World War II constitution to allow the country to actively defend itself against external threats.

But Koichi Nakano, Political Science professor at Sophia University, told CNN Abe's opponents are angry their supposed ally in Washington was making Japan less safe under President Trump and want to soften their ties to the US, while upholding their nation's pacifist values.

"The danger of North Korea has been if anything heightened after Trump came to power (due to) his sometimes really provocative language and tweets. He's not really helping that much," he said.

[url=http://www.cnn.com/specials/asia/north-korea][/url]

[Belsnickel]

Just in case anyone was curious, here is something from the Pacific area on how Japan and South Korea feel about all of this:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-20/japan-and-south-korea-applaud-trump-for-brazenness-in-un-speech/8965076

[*bfine32*]

(09-22-2017, 10:51 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Just in case anyone was curious, here is something from the Pacific area on how Japan and South Korea feel about all of this:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-20/japan-and-south-korea-applaud-trump-for-brazenness-in-un-speech/8965076

Thanks Matt for being open-minded.

[Belsnickel]

(09-22-2017, 10:53 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Thanks Matt for being open-minded.

I have a lot of legitimate reasons to dislike Trump and what he is doing. I don't like Trump's decorum, but I can't deny that NK is a threat to the region. There has been too much dithering on this issue and Lil' Kim has it in his mind that a nuclear arsenal is the only way he is going to retain power. Unfortunately, and this is where I get critical of Trump, his statements regarding Iran show NK that a deal isn't going to mean much with the US. I abhor war, but I feel like this situation really needs to come to a head and we need to help protect our major Pacific allies.

[Matt_Crimson]

(09-22-2017, 10:47 AM)GMDino Wrote: I'm not defending NK.

I saying that Trump lacks the skills to even contain the situation let alone lessen the threat.

If NK shot a missle over the US what would you think a good response would be.

[*michaelsean*]

(09-22-2017, 11:12 AM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: If NK shot a missle over the US what would you think a good response would be.

You mean a test missile?  Should we wait to find out if it's armed or not?  

[hollodero]

(09-22-2017, 10:46 AM)jason Wrote: The Lakota... The Lakota.

Don't tell our ambassador which Indian tribes' squaws he should lay eyes on.

(09-22-2017, 10:48 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Seriously, though, I am against the usage of the word Sioux, as well.

I apologize, I meant no disrespect. And the portrayed ignorance is of course the ignorance of the fictional ambassador we send to you as a response to Mr. Sound of Music, was hence used in a satirical context and not meant to be an insult to Indians. Using the term "Indians", however, is part of my genuine ignorance and should not be seen in said satirical context. 

Having said that, I really didn't know that the word "Sioux" was somehow tainted. 


-----
Now, back to topic please. I think Trump's harsh words about Iran and questioning the nuclear deal are counter-productive. I wonder what's the plan when dealing with a country's nuclear buildup. Shall deals be made like with Iran, or no deals like with North Korea, or just predending there's no problem like with Pakistan, or going preventive war like in Iraq (I know that example is heavily flawed)? I'd say going for the contract option is the best of those ideas. But I can't compare, I don't kow what Trump's idea is. Is there any?
Plus, Iran heads, it appears, in a more moderate direction, which won't accelerate much by aggressive US wording. And the contract-cosponsors in Europe think it's strange that Trump makes an unilateral call about that one. Condescending, isn't it?

[GMDino]

(09-22-2017, 11:12 AM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: If NK shot a missle over the US what would you think a good response would be.

Shooting it out of the sky to show NK they can't attack us?

I'd hope we wouldn't just start bombing the country though.

I'm just not looking forward to WWIII.

So maybe we should find a new way to stop such a scenario from happening other than tweeting out name calling like a 7th grade girl?

[*bfine32*]

(09-22-2017, 11:00 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have a lot of legitimate reasons to dislike Trump and what he is doing. I don't like Trump's decorum, but I can't deny that NK is a threat to the region. There has been too much dithering on this issue and Lil' Kim has it in his mind that a nuclear arsenal is the only way he is going to retain power. Unfortunately, and this is where I get critical of Trump, his statements regarding Iran show NK that a deal isn't going to mean much with the US. I abhor war, but I feel like this situation really needs to come to a head and we need to help protect our major Pacific allies.

No doubt NK has to be/ should be dealt with. Not only for the threat they currently pose to the region and are trying to expand it globally; but the way the population is treated there makes those under Saddam look like they were on holiday.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-22-2017, 10:28 AM)hollodero Wrote: ? What has that to do with our ambassador? But whatever, that astounding line stands on its own anyway. 

We guys can't tell that, hm. While "you guys" can. Of course! It's so easy. Whenever he says something you like, he's serious. Whenever he says something false, pointless or moronic, he's simply working the room. What's not to get there.

And why wouldn't he work the room? It's not like there are more important things to work on. It's also no big deal to be misunderstood by the wrong people. Who cares about them?

But right, I don't get all that, being part of "them guys". To me it seems that your admiration for a full level right-wing troll as president is so high that you misinterpret baloney as hilariously playing people. 

It's the UN. Without us there is no UN and really our president can pretty much say anything and everyone has to sit there and take it.

The UN is there so diplomates have a job.

[hollodero]

(09-22-2017, 12:04 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: It's the UN.   Without us there is no UN and really our president can pretty much say anything and everyone has to sit there and take it.  

Yeah, that's the attitude.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-22-2017, 10:19 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So the answer to my question is, yes, events from 2016 do influence events in 2017. Those stories and the current situation have a common denominator.

Incorrect.  If you feel the need to have everything in life reduced to a yes or no answer then you're not going to have a good time.  Please read my response and try, try, try again.  Head first this time, dive right in!

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-22-2017, 10:24 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I was actually going to say the same thing as SSF when I first saw Dill's post. In fact, every one of those articles is from before Trump was in office. The difference being that what he said on the campaign trail can be (note I am saying can be, not is) different than actions since he has taken office. Japan rightly got riled by his rhetoric on the campaign trail because of his message being a threat to their security and economy. But, has he enacted policy to that regard and how have the Japanese responded since he has been in office?

We would need articles talking about the views of the Japanese on Trump since he has taken office to really get a good feel for that, and pretending otherwise is just being stubborn.

He won't respond to this Matt.  The far left posters on this board display an unerring ability to ignore points they can't refute or twist.  Of course the far right posters on this board do the same thing, but we aren't dealing with one of them in this instance.

[Belsnickel]

(09-22-2017, 12:47 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: He won't respond to this Matt.  The far left posters on this board display an unerring ability to ignore points they can't refute or twist.  Of course the far right posters on this board do the same thing, but we aren't dealing with one of them in this instance.

I don't know, I'm pretty far left on the political spectrum of this board. But my field of study is also public policy, so I treat it a bit more scientifically.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-22-2017, 10:51 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Just in case anyone was curious, here is something from the Pacific area on how Japan and South Korea feel about all of this:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-20/japan-and-south-korea-applaud-trump-for-brazenness-in-un-speech/8965076

(09-22-2017, 10:53 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Thanks Matt for being open-minded.

I said upon his election that a possible positive of a Trump presidency is that he won't play by conventional rules in regards to foreign policy.  While consistency is good for allies, it's something they can rely upon, it can be exploited by enemies.  North Korea has been able to conduct itself with such bellicosity precisely because the US would predictably respond with restraint.  The same could be said for Putin's annexation of the Crimean peninsula.  Trump doesn't allow for that kind of predictability and consequently the North Korean can may no longer be kicked down the road.  Whether it turns out well, or in a bloodless fashion, of course remains to be seen.