Pence staff threatens action against reporter

[GMDino]

(05-01-2020, 08:52 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, in my lifetime, the people that I've found to be the best Christians are the ones whom you don't even suspect of being followers, yet they always seem to carry out good deeds.

So, I guess it really depends upon what one's individual definition of a Christian is..  

Yep...those are the best Christians.  They are not, however, the "good" Christians.  Those always tell you how good they are no matter how they act. 

[GMDino]

(05-01-2020, 09:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Dino meme aside: You'd be surprised how compliant folks are when you explain it's a matter of life and death.

Did you just pose the question as an opportunity to post a meme or did you actually want an answer?

I knew how you'd answer.  Chain of command, respecting leaders, etc.

I'm sure they "always" do what you tell them they have to do.

Totally sure bro.

[*bfine32*]

(05-01-2020, 09:54 PM)GMDino Wrote: I knew how you'd answer.  Chain of command, respecting leaders, etc.

I'm sure they "always" do what you tell them they have to do.

Totally sure bro.

So you posed the question because you knew my answer? You just kinda make this up as you go along don't you? 

[BigPapaKain]

(05-01-2020, 09:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I've always said: If you want to know how a Christian should act, just ask an atheist. 

Following the Bible makes you Christian.

Reading the Bible makes you an atheist.

Point is, an atheist would know.

[GMDino]

(05-01-2020, 10:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So you posed the question because you knew my answer?  You just kinda make this up as you go along don't you? 

Hell, someone on this board does both those things all the time. 



All seriousness aside there is no way, zero, zilch, that your superiors or people above you "always" do something when you tell them they "have to do it".

Zip.

But thanks for the laugh anyway.  Have a good night.

[Benton]

(05-01-2020, 09:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said: They should be ashamed of themselves if they let him enter when they thought he'd be a risk by entering without a mask.

Don't you agree or just saying?

Can't really agree or disagree as I don't know what the healthcare professionals said or didn't say to the head of the corona virus task force and guy who has a say in their funding.

There's some sad humor there that the guy tasked with improving public safety can't even walk into a building safely.

[hollodero]

(05-01-2020, 09:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said: They should be ashamed of themselves if they let him enter when they thought he'd be a risk by entering without a mask.

Don't you agree or just saying?

I find it far fetched to blame the clinic for Pence setting a bad example. It's not just about actual risk, it's about the message he sends out. Look, it's all overblown, masks are not that vital, don't bother.

Optics aside, I also have to agree that it might be quite tough to tell the vice president of the United States, and the one responsible for the pandemic, what he is not allowed to do. Things go bad and Trump tweets about the incident. And then Hannity or Breitbart might pick that up and then the clinic is really screwed.

[*bfine32*]

(05-01-2020, 10:49 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Following the Bible makes you Christian.

Reading the Bible makes you an atheist.

Point is, an atheist would know.

Reading the Bible just means you read another book; sorta like reading a dictionary. Then you think you can understand how someone is feeling because you know the word to describe it.

Believing the Bible, publicly confessing your belief, constantly striving to better understand the messages, and and developing a personal relationship make you a Christian

[*bfine32*]

(05-02-2020, 11:53 AM)hollodero Wrote: I find it far fetched to blame the clinic for Pence setting a bad example. It's not just about actual risk, it's about the message he sends out. Look, it's all overblown, masks are not that vital, don't bother.

Optics aside, I also have to agree that it might be quite tough to tell the vice president of the United States, and the one responsible for the pandemic, what he is not allowed to do. Things go bad and Trump tweets about the incident. And then Hannity or Breitbart might pick that up and then the clinic is really screwed.

I clearly said Pence should be ashamed if he knowingly endangered folks.

As to the "they had no choice but let him endanger their staff and patients...bullshit. It's not "quite tough" at all. "Put on this mask or do not tour our floors." 

Mayo receives less than 1/2 its funding from Federal and state government. I doubt the Democratic Governor of Minnesota would withhold funding because they insisted Pence wear a mask and if the Feds decided to do anything (highly unlikely) the backlash would be severe and I'm sure would be more than covered in private donations. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-01-2020, 11:00 PM)GMDino Wrote: Hell, someone on this board does both those things all the time. 



All seriousness aside there is no way, zero, zilch, that your superiors or people above you "always" do something when you tell them they "have to do it".

Zip.

But thanks for the laugh anyway.  Have a good night.

Perhaps it's humorous to you because you haven't dealt with many life or death situations. I have never had a superior (btw Pence is not on the Mayo staff) deny my request when it has been explained that compliance is for safety's sake and failing to do so could endanger lives. 

We have things known as Personal Security Detachments (PSDs) and their task is to escort High Profile individuals. If you think that General Officer doesn't do exactly as that NCOIC of the PSD tells him/her to do; then I'll return the laugh. 

THE MAYO CLINIC SHOULD HAVE BEEN ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES

PENCE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ASHAMED OF HIMSELF

[hollodero]

(05-02-2020, 12:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I clearly said Pence should be ashamed if he knowingly endangered folks.

That wasn't my point though. I can't evaluate that. My point was that he set a bad example. Which is true even it it was not actually endangering people.
You tell everyone to wear a mask in clinics et al. and then you're the first guy to abandon that rule publicly? Come on, that's just bad.

(05-02-2020, 12:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As to the "they had no choice but let him endanger their staff and patients...bullshit. It's not "quite tough" at all. "Put on this mask or do not tour our floors." 

Mayo receives less than 1/2 its funding from Federal and state government. I doubt the Democratic Governor of Minnesota would withhold funding because they insisted Pence wear a mask and if the Feds decided to do anything (highly unlikely) the backlash would be severe and I'm sure would be more than covered in private donations. 

You might not risk funding. You risk Trump's wrath though. An angry tweet or something, treated so unfairly etc. - Which would be a PR nightmare, given what the extreme right wing media can do to people. Eg what Breitbart did to Megyn Kelly after she asked Trump a question he did not like.

If I were an employee at said clinic, I would be very scared to tell the Vice president what he can and cannot do. Even if his behaviour posed a risk, there's another risk you probably would have to weigh against it. I think it's naive to assume otherwise.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

If any of us walked up to the Mayo Clinic’s doors now we would probably be met by someone taking our temp and informing us of their masking policy.

Pence shouldn’t be treated differently. Bfine is right, it is up to the Mayo Clinic to educate visitors about their policy and enforce it.

I don’t agree with the explanation both Pence and his wife gave. I believe Pence should set a better example and follow CDC guidelines asked of the rest of us. I agree Pence could have contracted the virus since his last test and be an asymptomatic carrier which is a reason why the CDC has adopted their guidelines.

But, if any of us walked in off the street they wouldn’t let us walk around without a mask. They should have treated Pence the same.

If he refused and the administrators acquiesced then they’re both wrong.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-02-2020, 01:02 PM)hollodero Wrote: That wasn't my point though. I can't evaluate that. My point was that he set a bad example. Which is true even it it was not actually endangering people.
You tell everyone to wear a mask in clinics et al. and then you're the first guy to abandon that rule publicly? Come on, that's just bad.



You might not risk funding. You risk Trump's wrath though. An angry tweet or something, treated so unfairly etc. - Which would be a PR nightmare, given what the extreme right wing media can do to people. Eg what Breitbart did to Megyn Kelly after she asked Trump a question he did not like.

If I were an employee at said clinic, I would be very scared to tell the Vice president what he can and cannot do. Even if his behaviour posed a risk, there's another risk you probably would have to weigh against it. I think it's naive to assume otherwise.

I agree with everything you have to say, also. But, I got fired from my last job in retaliation for trying to correct my supervising physician’s bad behavior. They fired her within a year of letting me go, but that was a pretty hollow victory.

[*bfine32*]

(05-02-2020, 01:02 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If any of us walked up to the Mayo Clinic’s doors now we would probably be met by someone taking our temp and informing us of their masking policy.

Pence shouldn’t be treated differently. Bfine is right, it is up to the Mayo Clinic to educate visitors about their policy and enforce it.

I don’t agree with the explanation both Pence and his wife gave. I believe Pence should set a better example and follow CDC guidelines asked of the rest of us. I agree Pence could have contracted the virus since his last test and be an asymptomatic carrier which is a reason why the CDC has adopted their guidelines.

But, if any of us walked in off the street they wouldn’t let us walk around without a mask. They should have treated Pence the same.

If he refused and the administrators acquiesced then they’re both wrong.

[*bfine32*]

(05-02-2020, 01:02 PM)hollodero Wrote: That wasn't my point though. I can't evaluate that. My point was that he set a bad example. Which is true even it it was not actually endangering people.
You tell everyone to wear a mask in clinics et al. and then you're the first guy to abandon that rule publicly? Come on, that's just bad.



You might not risk funding. You risk Trump's wrath though. An angry tweet or something, treated so unfairly etc. - Which would be a PR nightmare, given what the extreme right wing media can do to people. Eg what Breitbart did to Megyn Kelly after she asked Trump a question he did not like.

If I were an employee at said clinic, I would be very scared to tell the Vice president what he can and cannot do. Even if his behaviour posed a risk, there's another risk you probably would have to weigh against it. I think it's naive to assume otherwise.

Can't disagree with the rest but as to the bold:  primum non nocere,

[hollodero]

(05-02-2020, 02:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Can't disagree with the rest but as to the bold:  primum non nocere,

That might be fair, come to think about it. I concede the point.

[GMDino]

(05-02-2020, 12:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Perhaps it's humorous to you because you haven't dealt with many life or death situations. I have never had a superior (btw Pence is not on the Mayo staff) deny my request when it has been explained that compliance is for safety's sake and failing to do so could endanger lives. 

We have things known as Personal Security Detachments (PSDs) and their task is to escort High Profile individuals. If you think that General Officer doesn't do exactly as that NCOIC of the PSD tells him/her to do; then I'll return the laugh. 

THE MAYO CLINIC SHOULD HAVE BEEN ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES

PENCE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ASHAMED OF HIMSELF

"always"

Not just "life threatening"..."always" kid.  You said "always".

If Pence was capable of "shame" he wouldn't still be VP.

The Mayo Clinic put out a tweet that they Had told Pence then took it down and changed to "told his handlers".  

No one, not even brave "they always listen to me" bfine would have denied the VP his photo-op even without the mask.

But thanks for today's giggle. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-02-2020, 02:26 PM)GMDino Wrote: "always"

Not just "life threatening"..."always" kid.  You said "always".

If Pence was capable of "shame" he wouldn't still be VP.

The Mayo Clinic put out a tweet that they Had told Pence then took it down and changed to "told his handlers".  

No one, not even brave "they always listen to me" bfine would have denied the VP his photo-op even without the mask.

But thanks for today's giggle. 

Well I consider this example to be life threatening, so yeah, the point stands. 

Many healthcare providers take an oath. I know you consider oaths to be things of ridicule but some folks take the quite seriously that they will defend regardless of the harm to them. I feel many healthcare providers take their oaths quite seriously. Your "no one would have denied Pence access to their facility without the proper PPE, shows how little respect you have for them. 

[*Nately120*]

I would have denied Pence access and then I'd be sure to call off sick before the Trump fan club showed up with assault weapons to protest our agenda against him.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-02-2020, 02:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Can't disagree with the rest but as to the bold:  primum non nocere,

If you don’t have funds you can’t provide care, particularly indigent care. Getting into a pissing contest with the Vice President over a mask might cost you millions of dollars and affect your ability to care for thousands. It is another risk benefit analysis, but you make a good point. It shouldn’t need to come to this, but ultimately the Mayo Clinic is responsible for enforcing their policy on their campus. Or turning a blind eye during a VIP visit.