People That Will Blindly Vote For Biden.....

[Belsnickel]

(08-10-2020, 11:42 AM)Mer Wrote: That's the first time I've heard that. Honestly, I don't really care or support it, but I'm not the one that has to stand before God on the day of judgement and answer for their way of life. 

I have enough sins of my own to answer for.

Yeah, there were some articles, recently, where one of the co-directors discusses how the Matrix was about being trans. Interesting stuff.

[*Nately120*]

(08-10-2020, 11:43 AM)Mer Wrote: Why do you think Trump ran for president?

Why do you think Biden is running for president?

[CJD]

(08-10-2020, 11:44 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, there were some articles, recently, where one of the co-directors discusses how the Matrix was about being trans. Interesting stuff.

Given that both writer/directors are trans, that wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Mer]

(08-10-2020, 11:45 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Why do you think Biden is running for president?

Well, he is a career politician. Which I believe is a major problem in politics. The original idea was that someone would run for a political office and then when their term was up they'd go back to their previous job.   
To get back to the question, I'm not sure Biden really wants to be president. I'm more along the lines that the Democratic party was pushing him to run because they felt that he would pull in the Obama voters. 
Sadly, I feel his mental state is a major concern that all Americans should have.

I'll ask again. Why do you think Trump ran for president? He was already rich, powerful, and famous so what could he possibly gain, other than ridicule, for running?

[*Nately120*]

(08-10-2020, 12:12 PM)Mer Wrote: I'll ask again. Why do you think Trump ran for president? He was already rich, powerful, and famous so what could he possibly gain, other than ridicule, for running?

The same thing most people seek...money, power, influence, and so on.  You have to understand that I'm a behaviorist and I deduce the mind based upon observable actions.  If Trump loves america and the constitution his actions are telling a very different story.

You are free to believe what you want, but granting you that also means I have to allow people who think Biden is awesome to think so, as well.  You might be able to convince me Trump is a better choice than Biden, but Trump being country-first...nah, doesn't add up.

[Mer]

(08-10-2020, 12:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The same thing most people seek...money, power, influence, and so on.  You have to understand that I'm a behaviorist and I deduce the mind based upon observable actions.  If Trump loves america and the constitution his actions are telling a very different story.

You are free to believe what you want, but granting you that also means I have to allow people who think Biden is awesome to think so, as well.  You might be able to convince me Trump is a better choice than Biden, but Trump being country-first...nah, doesn't add up.

I'd like you to vote Trump but that's the beauty of our nation. You can vote for whomever you want and I'm glad that's the case. 

As far as your comment about Trump not loving the nation and the constitution, do you have proof of this or is it just echoing the left's agenda?  

BTW Trump already had money, power, and influence before he ran for president. I understand that as the leader of the greatest nation those things increase but if he didn't care about where our nation is going would it really be worth the headache it has been for him?

[*Nately120*]

(08-10-2020, 12:36 PM)Mer Wrote: I'd like you to vote Trump but that's the beauty of our nation. You can vote for whomever you want and I'm glad that's the case. 

As far as your comment about Trump not loving the nation and the constitution, do you have proof of this or is it just echoing the left's agenda?  

BTW Trump already had money, power, and influence before he ran for president. I understand that as the leader of the greatest nation those things increase but if he didn't care about where our nation is going would it really be worth the headache it has been for him?

There is plenty of evidence Trump doesn't love this nation via his policy, his statements, his use of his power/platform, and his constant undermining of the democratic process.  Hearing this from me isn't likely to change your mind if seeing Trump in action hasn't.

Assuming you've read through this thread there are many cogent and logical arguments to refute your claim, in addition to Trump's own words and actions.  The best argument I've heard for being pro-Trump is that he is absolutely addicted to winning at all costs and that he isn't a great guy and he is selfish but his dedication to be the best will benefit the country.

The idea that Trump is going to make this country great due to his sheer narcissistic desire to be the best is far easier to swallow than the guy being some sort of selfless public servant. 


EDIT - Also, indicating that it takes some sort of liberal agenda to be skeptical of Trump doesn't help your case, in my mind.  Just my take.  

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-10-2020, 11:04 AM)Mer Wrote: Yeah!!! Why would you vote for someone that loves this country and believes in the things it was founded upon when we could vote for someone that represents the party of socialism!! Right on!! Vote for BIDEN!! MAS!! Make Americans Socialists!!!! Everyone should be equal!! Why should we pay the doctors more than the garbage men!!! They didn't really go to school that long!!! Socialism!!!!

Since you brought up evidence, you got any that Democrats want doctors to be pain as much as garbage men?

[*Nately120*]

(08-10-2020, 01:22 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Since you brought up evidence, you got any that Democrats want doctors to be pain as much as garbage men?

I have a doctorate and I make peanuts working in a job related to this country's national defense.  I don't even see evidence that Trump gives half as much of a crap about this country as I do.

Do I want to be paid as much as garbage man?  Well no, I want to live in a country where if I want to be paid as much as a garbage man I can go be a garbage man.

[Mer]

(08-10-2020, 01:22 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Since you brought up evidence, you got any that Democrats want doctors to be pain as much as garbage men?

Sorry, I guess I forgot this... .

[Mer]

(08-10-2020, 01:25 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I have a doctorate and I make peanuts working in a job related to this country's national defense.  I don't even see evidence that Trump gives half as much of a crap about this country as I do.

Do I want to be paid as much as garbage man?  Well no, I want to live in a country where if I want to be paid as much as a garbage man I can go be a garbage man.

Then why do you support the Democratic candidate? 

I don't believe he's as bad as some of the up and coming ones like AOC who's completely out there but unfortunately his party his shifting more and more to the extreme liberal side. 

Personally I wish we didn't have political parties.

[*Nately120*]

(08-10-2020, 01:40 PM)Mer Wrote: Then why do you support the Democratic candidate? 

I don't. I just recognize that there are more logical arguments for Biden > Trump presented here and many other places I've looked. You combat my skepticism of Trump by labeling me a victim of leftist mind-warping and then ask me why I support a candidate I don't intend to vote for.

[Belsnickel]

(08-10-2020, 01:40 PM)Mer Wrote: Then why do you support the Democratic candidate? 

I don't believe he's as bad as some of the up and coming ones like AOC who's completely out there but unfortunately his party his shifting more and more to the extreme liberal side. 

Personally I wish we didn't have political parties.

So, I can't answer for Nately, but I figured responding to this post was as good a place for this discussion as any. Social democratic policies such as those that help ensure everyone has a livable wage, universal healthcare, a social safety net, etc., actually give people more freedom to pursue their passions than neo-liberal/conservative policies advocate for the free market. When an adequate social safety net exists it allows people to receive the education they need for their career of choice, it mitigates some of the risk and therefore encourages entrepreneurism. So the social programs that are associated with progressives/leftists in this country are often ones that promote economic freedom. The deregulation and privatization we have seen since the Reagan administration has done nothing but increase the wealth and income gaps in this country and cause our Gini coefficient to rise, showing that our country is currently experiencing a decline in economic freedom.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-10-2020, 01:40 PM)Mer Wrote: Then why do you support the Democratic candidate? 

I don't believe he's as bad as some of the up and coming ones like AOC who's completely out there but unfortunately his party his shifting more and more to the extreme liberal side. 

Personally I wish we didn't have political parties.

Again, what Democrat supports a flat wage for everyone?

[*Nately120*]

(08-10-2020, 01:46 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, I can't answer for Nately, but I figured responding to this post was as good a place for this discussion as any. Social democratic policies such as those that help ensure everyone has a livable wage, universal healthcare, a social safety net, etc., actually give people more freedom to pursue their passions than neo-liberal/conservative policies advocate for the free market. When an adequate social safety net exists it allows people to receive the education they need for their career of choice, it mitigates some of the risk and therefore encourages entrepreneurism. So the social programs that are associated with progressives/leftists in this country are often ones that promote economic freedom. The deregulation and privatization we have seen since the Reagan administration has done nothing but increase the wealth and income gaps in this country and cause our Gini coefficient to rise, showing that our country is currently experiencing a decline in economic freedom.

Nicely done.  I will point out that in my possibly incorrect mind it is not deregulation that causes issues so much as our neo-conservative/plutocratic version of deregulation wherein our system allows the ultra-rich to operate without oversight yet receive publicly-funded bailouts when their unsupervised plans fail.

The privatization of profit and the socialization of loss has killed fiscal conservatism and our concept of a free market for the benefit of the few.

[Belsnickel]

(08-10-2020, 01:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Nicely done.  I will point out that in my possibly incorrect mind it is not deregulation that causes issues so much as our neo-conservative/plutocratic version of deregulation wherein our system allows the ultra-rich to operate without oversight yet receive publicly-funded bailouts when their unsupervised plans fail.

The privatization of profit and the socialization of loss has killed fiscal conservatism and our concept of a free market for the benefit of the few.

This is very true, and again where idea of liberal policies can be beneficial. The way the gains are disproportionately spread at the top and the losses to the bottom is a gross display of inequity in our system. We see it not just in economics, but also in environmentalism. This inequity, truthfully injustice, is something that modern/social liberalism is intended to help mitigate. I am also speaking here of equity, not equality. A key difference in these is that equity means everyone gets a fair shake, which isn't the case right now because of our systemic issues like the ones that cause the disproportional distribution of gains and losses and make it so those on the lower rungs face a disadvantage through no action of their own.

[Mer]

(08-10-2020, 01:46 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, I can't answer for Nately, but I figured responding to this post was as good a place for this discussion as any. Social democratic policies such as those that help ensure everyone has a livable wage, universal healthcare, a social safety net, etc., actually give people more freedom to pursue their passions than neo-liberal/conservative policies advocate for the free market. When an adequate social safety net exists it allows people to receive the education they need for their career of choice, it mitigates some of the risk and therefore encourages entrepreneurism. So the social programs that are associated with progressives/leftists in this country are often ones that promote economic freedom. The deregulation and privatization we have seen since the Reagan administration has done nothing but increase the wealth and income gaps in this country and cause our Gini coefficient to rise, showing that our country is currently experiencing a decline in economic freedom.

Do you not believe that everyone in this country has the same opportunity to get an education that leads to success or failures?

[Belsnickel]

(08-10-2020, 02:18 PM)Mer Wrote: Do you not believe that everyone in this country has the same opportunity to get an education that leads to success or failures?

Not only do I not believe it, I have seen the research that shows that not everyone has the same opportunity to get an education.

Edit to add: I've also done some research that resulted in highlighting inequity in education in Virginia whereby poor urban areas have the lowest access to education and the education they receive is of a lower quality. Poor rural areas come in not far behind them, but they fair a little better.

[Mer]

(08-10-2020, 02:16 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is very true, and again where idea of liberal policies can be beneficial. The way the gains are disproportionately spread at the top and the losses to the bottom is a gross display of inequity in our system. We see it not just in economics, but also in environmentalism. This inequity, truthfully injustice, is something that modern/social liberalism is intended to help mitigate. I am also speaking here of equity, not equality. A key difference in these is that equity means everyone gets a fair shake, which isn't the case right now because of our systemic issues like the ones that cause the disproportional distribution of gains and losses and make it so those on the lower rungs face a disadvantage through no action of their own.

Yet those "disadvantaged" individuals have more educational things set up for them to succeed as compared to someone from a middle class family. I agree one person's circumstance is not the same as the next but someone raised on poverty has more opportunity for scholarships and financial assistance. I taught in the inner city for over 10 years. I've seen it first hand. The problem is not the lack of opportunity. It's lack of people taking advantage of those opportunities. A lot of it comes down to culture.

[Belsnickel]

(08-10-2020, 02:26 PM)Mer Wrote: Yet those "disadvantaged" individuals have more educational things set up for them to succeed as compared to someone from a middle class family. I agree one person's circumstance is not the same as the next but someone raised on poverty has more opportunity for scholarships and financial assistance. I taught in the inner city for over 10 years. I've seen it first hand. The problem is not the lack of opportunity. It's lack of people taking advantage of those opportunities. A lot of it comes down to culture.

However, they still have to meet certain educational requirements that their primary and secondary education may not have prepared them for. They also lack the information that informs them of these things. One of the big reasons scholarships and other programs aren't taken advantage of is because people simply don't know. First generation students in higher education lack someone to help guide them through more often than not, which creates a disadvantage for them compared to others.