RUMOR - Biden to announce cancellation of student debt

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(08-24-2022, 01:25 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It's official. $10k forgiveness for non-Pell grant recipients. $20k for Pell grant recipients. $125k limit for individuals, $250k limit for joint income.

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1562462774969581570

I don’t really remember all the loans and stuff I got as that was 10+ years ago, but it’s showing I got like $9000 from the pell grant so I’m wondering if that would qualify me for $20000. If so I about have enough in savings to pretty much pay the rest of what would be leftover off and I’d be completely free of debt entirely.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(08-24-2022, 02:19 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I feel like there have been a number of proposed initiatives to combat or curb predatory lending and life-crippling interest rates, education and otherwise.  Methinks they tend to be labeled as government interfering with the free market, though. 

I would have said interest free loans would help but I reckon no one would want to give out a loan for nothing in return and half the time not getting the money they lent back at all.

College should be cheaper or maybe the cost of college vary by your degree. Some degrees can be worth it. The one I was going for was not one of those but I was originally planning on jumping into a graduate degree program that might have been worth it if I finished it all the way. But I quit before I got there.

Either way I think most kids should go to a 2 year college and move up from there. That’s what I did and I went to a local 4 year college and drove. Only reason I owed $25k and my brothers wife who went for 4 years and lived on campus owed $125k

[Mickeypoo]

(08-24-2022, 02:19 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I feel like there have been a number of proposed initiatives to combat or curb predatory lending and life-crippling interest rates, education and otherwise.  Methinks they tend to be labeled as government interfering with the free market, though. 

Methinks the Gov needs to stop with the handouts.  Especially when it is blatantly obvious it is for political reasons and buying votes.

[*Nately120*]

(08-24-2022, 02:25 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Methinks the Gov needs to stop with the handouts.  Especially when it is blatantly obvious it is for political reasons and buying votes.

Again, there is a pollical party that is focused on fewer handouts than the two major parties we have and they get 1% of the vote.  People want free stuff, and that's why the Ds and Rs promise you free stuff for voting for them.

We are a "what's in it for me?" society.  Maybe anyone who didn't vote for Biden (myself included) will sack up and refuse this handout. If no one has his/her hand out then the government won't be handing stuff out, I guess. The power is ours, isn't it?

[Mickeypoo]

(08-24-2022, 02:28 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Again, there is a pollical party that is focused on fewer handouts than the two major parties we have and they get 1% of the vote.  People want free stuff, and that's why the Ds and Rs promise you free stuff for voting for them.

We are a "what's in it for me?" society.  Maybe anyone who didn't vote for Biden (myself included) will sack up and refuse this handout.  If no one has his/her hand out then the government won't be handing stuff out, I guess.  The power is ours, isn't it?

We are too complacent and rely too much on Gov.  just they way they want it.  Easy to control people that way.

[Au165]

I'll say it again, this doesn't actually fix the problem. I would have rather seen work done to reduce the interest rates retroactively to allow people to simply pay the premium they owed. Going forward though this does nothing to fix the problem for people this coming year and beyond who are about to take on crazy debt.

The Government needs to steal a page from the insurance industry and negotiate better rates for those taking out loans. If the government starts denying loans because the schools are overcharging the industry will change quickly because they need those loans approved. They should not only negotiate better rates but force the institutions to abandon one price fits all pricing and move to a major based pricing model that is tied to average pay for people with those degrees. Obviously there will be a lot of nuance here like handling time before declaring and then even adjustments for CoL and such.

Bottom line, even a complete reset was never going to fix the bigger picture problem so I have been against this from the start. I don't care if someone gets something forgiven and someone else doesn't, my issue is that those that have them forgiven don't seem to care that the ones behind them are just as screwed as they were since the forgiveness doesn't help them.

[Mickeypoo]

(08-24-2022, 02:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: I'll say it again, this doesn't actually fix the problem. I would have rather seen work done to reduce the interest rates retroactively to allow people to simply pay the premium they owed. Going forward though this does nothing to fix the problem for people this coming year and beyond who are about to take on crazy debt.

The Government needs to steal a page from the insurance industry and negotiate better rates for those taking out loans. If the government starts denying loans because the schools are overcharging the industry will change quickly because they need those loans approved. They should not only negotiate better rates but force the institutions to abandon one price fits all pricing and move to a major based pricing model that is tied to average pay for people with those degrees. Obviously there will be a lot of nuance here like handling time before declaring and then even adjustments for CoL and such.

Bottom line, even a complete reset was never going to fix the bigger picture problem so I have been against this from the start. I don't care if someone gets something forgiven and someone else doesn't, my issue is that those that have them forgiven don't seem to care that the ones behind them are just as screwed as they were since the forgiveness doesn't help them.

They are not trying to fix any problem.  They are pandering and trying to buy votes.  They don't give a rats a$$ about fixing any problems.

[Belsnickel]

(08-24-2022, 02:21 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I don’t really remember all the loans and stuff I got as that was 10+ years ago, but it’s showing I got like $9000 from the pell grant so I’m wondering if that would qualify me for $20000. If so I about have enough in savings to pretty much pay the rest of what would be leftover off and I’d be completely free of debt entirely.

From what I was reading, you should be eligible for the $20k amount.

https://studentaid.gov/debt-relief-announcement/

I would have rather they say "Pell eligible" borrowers, but this is at least a step in the right direction. I also like some of the other initiatives they have in this announcement that are intended to help curb the problem in the future.

[Belsnickel]

(08-24-2022, 02:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: I'll say it again, this doesn't actually fix the problem. I would have rather seen work done to reduce the interest rates retroactively to allow people to simply pay the premium they owed. Going forward though this does nothing to fix the problem for people this coming year and beyond who are about to take on crazy debt.

The Government needs to steal a page from the insurance industry and negotiate better rates for those taking out loans. If the government starts denying loans because the schools are overcharging the industry will change quickly because they need those loans approved. They should not only negotiate better rates but force the institutions to abandon one price fits all pricing and move to a major based pricing model that is tied to average pay for people with those degrees. Obviously there will be a lot of nuance here like handling time before declaring and then even adjustments for CoL and such.

Bottom line, even a complete reset was never going to fix the bigger picture problem so I have been against this from the start. I don't care if someone gets something forgiven and someone else doesn't, my issue is that those that have them forgiven don't seem to care that the ones behind them are just as screwed as they were since the forgiveness doesn't help them.

You act like this is the only action being taken. I hear constantly about efforts to reduce college costs coming from the federal and state levels. The announcement itself had indications about plans to help this problem going forward in the future. This is big news because it is a short-term success and a good lede, but this is far from the only thing being done.

[Belsnickel]

So, one of the reasons that student loan forgiveness is a big talking point right now is because of the impact it has on the overall economy. We often hear about the way "Millennials have ruined everything!" What this is a result of is that my generation isn't having kids, aren't buying houses, aren't investing in the same ways generations before us have. Why? Because we can't afford it.

Thanks to Clinton, we grew up hearing that college was a necessity for a good job. They made it easier to borrow money under the auspices of making college more affordable. However, they didn't foresee the increase in demand which combined with the changing landscape of higher education in general and the defunding of public higher education by state legislatures to drive prices through the roof. So, policy decisions caused a huge domino effect and caused my generation to take on billions upon billions of dollars in debt. So, in trying to pay all of this off, we aren't having kids, buying houses, buying new cars, etc. So what does this do?

Issues with the housing market, the declining birth rate, less spending on big ticket items and other things that help drive the economy. We aren't spending money on those because wages haven't kept up with inflation so it is all many of us can do to pay for the essentials plus make the loan payments. Have a kid? That's too expensive, and forget the idea of having two to replace us in society. The housing market is experiencing changes in how it all operates as the market is manipulated more and more by large companies because there aren't enough buyers in the market to keep up the way it has been.

It's a larger problem for the economy than just the debt itself. When you look at this problem from a systems view, you can see that these things are highly interconnected. You can't silo this issue off on its own.

[Au165]

(08-24-2022, 03:20 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You act like this is the only action being taken. I hear constantly about efforts to reduce college costs coming from the federal and state levels. The announcement itself had indications about plans to help this problem going forward in the future. This is big news because it is a short-term success and a good lede, but this is far from the only thing being done.

This is the "big" move before the mid terms. You know how you know that? Because they would be telling us about all the other things they are doing to fix the problem but instead they are touting 10k leading into the mid terms. They could have been doing more this whole time but all they have been focused on his how much are they going to forgive and are they going to extend the moratorium. 

As I said, this money is money wasted because the interest will accrue back up for many of these people very quickly. It didn't fix the problem at hand and the people starting school right now who are taking these same loans are going to be screwed in 4 short years like everyone who just had their stuff forgiven. Biden could instruct the DoE to change the qualifications for federal student loans today that would disqualify many institutions that are gouging their students. With the threat of being excluded from federal money they would find a way to make their offerings more affordable, I guarantee it.

This was a political move, nothing more. It had to be done in some fashion because it was promised during the campaign but it will do little to solve the problem. I am pretty liberal but I push for things that actually create change not act as illusions of change.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-23-2022, 07:39 PM)Nately120 Wrote: had the luxury of lower tuition rates

Obviously not an answer to the uncontrolled rising costs of college... but there's too many people ignoring community colleges, trade schools, and also failing to ask themselves if their degree is financially feasible.

Rough costs for the different option in Columbus...
Columbus State Community College: $4,900/yr for in-state, $10k/yr for out-state
Ohio State University: $12,000 for in-state, $35k/yr for out-state
Easteland Fairfield Tech School: $9,000 for Welding, $10,500 for HVAC, $11,000 for Plumbing, $11,000 for Medical Assistant, $12,000 for Dental Assistant

We really need to make people ask themselves and be honest "if you take out $X in loans, will the type of job you are majoring in ever be able to repay this?" Also how many majors have teaching others said major as the only realistic source of income?

- - - - - - -

Again, that's not to say that predatory loans and uncontrolled rising costs of college aren't the main issue. It's just saying that people aren't doing a very good job as controlling what they can control on their end either.

This all started as a problem when they brought up generations indoctrinating them that they would never be happy or successful without college. Funneled far too many people there who had no business or true desire being there. 

Only thing worse than going in debt for a degree that statistically won't have anything to do with your job (only 27% of people with a degree have a job related to their major as of a handful of years ago) is going in debt for a couple years of an unfinished degree because you find out you had no desire or business getting one but just went along with the flow of what you were told you had to do in order to be successful in life.

- - - - - - - -

This move seems to do absolutely nothing to solve anything. If they actually wanted to solve a problem they would cap student loan interest rates, cap/limit student loans for certain majors that have no chance of paying itself off, destigmatize trade schools, destigmatize community colleges, and stop telling kids for 7 straight years throughout middle/high school that college NEEDS to be their next step if they ever want to be happy.

We're going to go right back to people building student debt again after this one time relief/vote buy.

Think about this... about 2/3rds of high school graduates immediately enroll in college. Do any of us here honestly believe that higher education (at great cost no less) was a good idea for an entire two thirds of their graduating class?

[treee]

The interest rate cap for income based repayment will actually stop the effect where people pay what they can and the principal still goes up because it's not enough. Very clutch.

[*michaelsean*]

I’m a little confused about the spell grant thing. Pell grants mean you got free money right? Why would they get double?

[treee]

(08-24-2022, 05:35 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I’m a little confused about the spell grant thing. Pell grants mean you got free money right?  Why would they get double?

Pell grant is a need based grant, so it is income limited. So it's another way that they're aiming this forgiveness at lower income people. 

[Belsnickel]

(08-24-2022, 05:35 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I’m a little confused about the spell grant thing. Pell grants mean you got free money right? Why would they get double?

(08-24-2022, 05:39 PM)treee Wrote: Pell grant is a need based grant, so it is income limited. So it's another way that they're aiming this forgiveness at lower income people. 

Indeed. The idea behind Pell Grants were that the neediest students would be able to attend school, essentially for free. The program has not been updated and funded to keep that up, but it is still the case that Pell eligible students are the ones most in need of tuition assistance.

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-24-2022, 03:03 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: They are not trying to fix any problem.  They are pandering and trying to buy votes.  They don't give a rats a$$ about fixing any problems.

I prefer helping out the lower and middle class. Compared to pandering to the rich. If you vote for the GOP you would rather see this money go to the rich. If you vote for democrats you would rather see this money go to lower and middle class.

Now under democratic control. The lower and middle class are getting a break. And the rich are getting an army of IRS agents to cast a wide net and catch a bunch of tax cheats.

Won’t see me crying about it

[HarleyDog]

(08-24-2022, 05:54 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I prefer helping out the lower and middle class. Compared to pandering to the rich. If you vote for the GOP you would rather see this money go to the rich. If you vote for democrats you would rather see this money go to lower and middle class.

Bullshit! It’s capped at $125,000 per individual. That’s right, $125,000. Not $30,000, Not $50,000 or even $60,000. $125,000. What a f’n joke. That there is ridiculous. Now, I want reimbursed $20k for my college debt that’s 100% paid off. This ain’t nothing but a first class raping without Vaseline. Now I have to pay for some lazy ass who refuses to work up to their potential while paying for Bidens political publicity points.

[KillerGoose]

(08-24-2022, 07:05 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Bullshit! It’s capped at $125,000 per individual. That’s right, $125,000. Not $30,000, Not $50,000 or even $60,000. $125,000. What a f’n joke. That there is ridiculous. Now, I want reimbursed $20k for my college debt that’s 100% paid off. This ain’t nothing but a first class raping without Vaseline. Now I have to pay for some lazy ass who refuses to work up to their potential while paying for Bidens political publicity points.

While I understand what you’re saying, you aren’t really refuting anything he is saying. An individual making $125k is still middle class, which is what NATI was speaking about.

[HarleyDog]

(08-24-2022, 07:16 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: While I understand what you’re saying, you aren’t really refuting anything he is saying. An individual making $125k is still middle class, which is what NATI was speaking about.

By who? I consider middle class between $35,000 and $65,000.