Roe vs Wade vs SCOTUS legitimacy

[BFritz21]

I find it hilarious that a lot of people are only Democrats and only voted for Biden because they're pro-abortion and then it still was overturned at the national level.

[Belsnickel]

(05-03-2022, 06:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: What percentage of Americans actually want this overturned? If the court is acting against the interests and wishes of the majority it might not be too crazy to assume other stuff people generally accept could be next.

Roughly 20% based on the last polls I saw on the issue.

(05-03-2022, 07:00 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I am certianly not a legal scholar, and while I don't think same-sex marriage is necessarily at great risk, you can't really fault people for their fear when the draft reads that rights not mentioned in the constitution  "must be 'deeply rooted in this Nation's history and Traditional and 'implicit in the conceptual of ordered liberty.'" The draft also mentions how "...until the latter part of the 20th century, [the right to an abortion] was entirely unknown in American law." 

I dont think it is unreasonable to believe that an opening is presented here to challenge same-sex marriage. 

I don't disagree with anything you're saying, here. I just tend to be a voice of reason in situations like these. Lots of people like to take "the sky is falling" approach, but I like to look at the various components to a situation and think about the likely outcomes. Attacks on same-sex marriage may come, and Alito's draft certainly highlights his hostility towards the institution. However, the political willpower isn't there. While the evangelical churches aren't fans of it, they aren't using it to craft their culture war like they did for abortion. I guess give them time since they may no longer have this one soon.

[Belsnickel]

(05-03-2022, 07:48 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I find it hilarious that a lot of people are only Democrats and only voted for Biden because they're pro-abortion and then it still was overturned at the national level.

That's not really a thing. Abortion being a deciding issue for people is not something that really pushes people to vote Democrat. It's much more common for GOP voters to be single-issue in that way. For instance, in the area where my family is from their politics truthfully run pretty progressive and they were always big union folks. However, since the abortion culture war they have been voting GOP.

[*Nately120*]

So the government is making something illegal with the support of 20% of people ? Isn't this when people usually start with the 2A talk? This seems like that sort of situation.

[Belsnickel]

(05-03-2022, 07:59 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So the government is making something illegal with the support of 20% of people ? Isn't this when people usually start with the 2A talk? This seems like that sort of situation.

SCOTUS is not making something illegal. They are kicking it to the states to decide. Now, it is estimated that 26 states will move to make abortion illegal in the event Roe is overturned. Some have trigger laws that are already in place and others are poised to initiate the legislation. I just wanted to clarify that.

[BFritz21]

(05-03-2022, 07:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's not really a thing. Abortion being a deciding issue for people is not something that really pushes people to vote Democrat. It's much more common for GOP voters to be single-issue in that way. For instance, in the area where my family is from their politics truthfully run pretty progressive and they were always big union folks. However, since the abortion culture war they have been voting GOP.

Every woman that I know that's a Democrat only votes so "because she doesn't want the government having control over her body."

I don't know of anyone that votes Republican based off of the abortion issue.

[*Nately120*]

(05-03-2022, 08:04 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Every woman that I know that's a Democrat only votes so "because she doesn't want the government having control over her body."

They're probably just saying that to trigger you.

[*michaelsean*]

I don’t like it. I’ve always been pro-life but we are just too far in. Weak reasoning but that’s where my brain is.

[BFritz21]

(05-03-2022, 08:13 PM)Nately120 Wrote: They're probably just saying that to trigger you.

Why would they be trying to trigger me?

It's something important to them.

[*Nately120*]

(05-03-2022, 08:20 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Why would they be trying to trigger me?

It's something important to them.

How many women are we talking here?  I've met a lot of people D and R alike and I've never talked to a single person who has abortion as the only issue they care about.  I'm just intrigued that someone who seems as ultra-conservative as you would know so many(?) women who are so singularly focused on being pro-choice. 

So how many democrat women do you know since you are saying 100% of them have abortion as their sole reason for voting D?

[BFritz21]

(05-03-2022, 08:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: How many women are we talking here?  I've met a lot of people D and R alike and I've never talked to a single person who has abortion as the only issue they care about.  I'm just intrigued that someone who seems as ultra-conservative as you would know so many(?) women who are so singularly focused on being pro-choice. 

So how many democrat women do you know since you are saying 100% of them have abortion as their sole reason for voting D?

A bunch from college and then on Facebook and even places like Instagram and Snapchat.

What other issues have they said they care about?

[*Nately120*]

(05-03-2022, 08:27 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: A bunch from college and then on Facebook and even places like Instagram and Snapchat.

What other issues have they said they care about?

So every woman you've ever met or talked politics with is either a republican or a democrat who would gladly be a republican if only republicans were pro-choice?

[Au165]

If settled law is no longer settled law buckle up because things are about to get even bumpier.

[BigPapaKain]

(05-03-2022, 07:48 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I find it hilarious that a lot of people are only Democrats and only voted for Biden because they're pro-abortion and then it still was overturned at the national level.

I find it sad that you find hilarity in an attack on women's bodily autonomy.

The party of small government, folks.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-03-2022, 08:30 PM)Au165 Wrote: If settled law is no longer settled law buckle up because things are about to get even bumpier.

This surely wouldn’t be the first time it has happened.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-03-2022, 08:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: How many women are we talking here?  I've met a lot of people D and R alike and I've never talked to a single person who has abortion as the only issue they care about.  I'm just intrigued that someone who seems as ultra-conservative as you would know so many(?) women who are so singularly focused on being pro-choice. 

So how many democrat women do you know since you are saying 100% of them have abortion as their sole reason for voting D?

You should probably address this with Matt as well. He said the same thing about pro-life people.

[Belsnickel]

(05-03-2022, 08:04 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Every woman that I know that's a Democrat only votes so "because she doesn't want the government having control over her body."

I don't know of anyone that votes Republican based off of the abortion issue.

Well, let's rid ourselves of anecdotal evidence and turn to something with a little bit of scientific rigor: https://news.gallup.com/poll/313316/one-four-americans-consider-abortion-key-voting-issue.aspx

Quote:The latest findings, from Gallup's annual Values and Beliefs poll conducted May 1-13, show the continuation of a trend seen since 2001 whereby Americans who consider themselves to be pro-life are more likely than those who identify as pro-choice to say abortion is a threshold issue.

While these groups have placed varying degrees of importance on the abortion issue in the past, the gap in their views has widened. Currently, 30% of those in the pro-life camp and 19% in the pro-choice camp say they are single-issue voters when it comes to abortion.

So while I may be underestimating the degree to which this occurs towards Democrats, it is the Republican/anti-choice voters that are more likely to see it as a "must."

For the record, single-issue voters on either side just piss me off. But that's me.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-03-2022, 08:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well, let's rid ourselves of anecdotal evidence and turn to something with a little bit of scientific rigor: https://news.gallup.com/poll/313316/one-four-americans-consider-abortion-key-voting-issue.aspx




So while I may be underestimating the degree to which this occurs towards Democrats, it is the Republican/anti-choice voters that are more likely to see it as a "must."

For the record, single-issue voters on either side just piss me off. But that's me.

I thought we called people what they want to be called.

[*Nately120*]

(05-03-2022, 08:56 PM)michaelsean Wrote: You should probably address this with Matt as well.  He said the same thing about pro-life people.

He does?  Usually a dismissive take on republicans involves a few key obsessions like guns and welfare queens, too.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-03-2022, 09:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: He does?  Usually a dismissive take on republicans involves a few key obsessions like guns and welfare queens, too.

Sure did. It’s what Brad responded to. Was just afraid you missed it.