Storming Of The Capitol Building

[Bengalzona]

Person of interest to the FBI

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-11-2021, 11:45 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Understandably so.  Being shit on by the left for the past nine months and then being "betrayed" by the right in this instance, it's a tough pill to swallow.  I think at the end of the day we're all just looking for people to understand that this is a tough job that we won't always get 100% correct.  Understanding that, and allowing for it, is all we really ask for.  There are people who suck at their job in every single profession, it just bothers me that the media and other detractors have been allowed to paint our entire profession with that brush.


I agree with literally everything you said here.  Kudos to you both.

 
I'm confused. What are you asking us to understand and allow? Busting in and killing someone sleeping in their bed? Kneeling on someone's neck until they are dead? LEOs from across the country participating in the assault and ransacking of our capital? Or the passive reaction by some of those tasked with protecting our capital when it was under assault and our elected officials lives were in danger?

I'm in a union. And it annoys me when they protect shitbags for doing shitbag things. But my job is not to protect and serve. And so the consequences of a shitbag keeping their job in my line isn't really a big deal for anyone other than people like me who have to do their work.

LEO unions should start using some common sense. Stop protecting the shitbags. Weed out the bad ones. And fix the culture. Because on Jan 6 21 it was proven to the world how broke it is. Protecting, enabling, and coddling shitbag LEOs has become a problem for all of us. 

[Belsnickel]

(01-11-2021, 10:43 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Well, it didn't take long from "we feel bad for the LEO's who were injured/killed" to, "they were complicit!" from the far left.  GM is a good weathervane in this regard.  I'm sure the strain of pretending was getting to them. 

Let's be fair, here, the officers doing things like what resulted in these suspensions certainly gives the perception of complicitness.

(01-11-2021, 11:19 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Oh, to be sure.  It's almost like advocating for us is a tool.  It's great being shit on by everyone. 

Which is why I said almost exactly that in an earlier post. LE is just used as a prop by the politicians.

(01-11-2021, 11:29 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: There were a lot of people on the Left really hounding the Capitol Police just as soon as the pictures came out showing a couple of them not pounding people in the heads with billy clubs. As I stated at that time (on FB), I think the Capitol Police did a reasonably good job considering the circumstances. A lot of people do not want to hear that. But then again, most of those people have never faced a mob or a riot, particularly when the numbers are so massively against you.

The number one job of the Capitol Police is to protect the lives of the Congresspeople (and the VP if he is there, as well). They accomplished that. They held the mob outside for ninety minutes without reinforcements. Protecting the property is a secondary mission. Obviously, they had some problems there. Considering the situation, I don't blame them for concentrating on their primary mission. It is what you do.

Here is my problem with what went down. They keep saying "we had no information that it would turn out like this." Meanwhile, all over the internet, right-wing extremists were talking openly about doing exactly what they did. To paraphrase someone from the ADL I heard yesterday, this was the most known about terrorist attack we've had in the post-9/11 country. ADL trawls the internet and dark web for this stuff and they were providing information to the feds days, if not weeks, ahead of this. It keeps being said that they refused help from other agencies and started off not in riot gear because they didn't have evidence it would turn violent. That's a lie, and it makes them look really bad.

(01-12-2021, 03:37 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: LEO unions should start using some common sense. Stop protecting the shitbags. Weed out the bad ones. And fix the culture. Because on Jan 6 21 it was proven to the world how broke it is. Protecting, enabling, and coddling shitbag LEOs has become a problem for all of us. 

Well, when you have this going on, you can see one of the problems. https://www.businessinsider.com/nypd-sergeants-union-chief-appeared-on-fox-news-with-a-qanon-mug-2020-7

[BigPapaKain]

(01-11-2021, 09:46 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: There's been at least as much violence and criminal conduct at BLM and Antifa demonstrations and riots.  That doesn't mean either group should be prohibited from protesting peacefully or any other group.  I know in Europe you have a much looser sense of speech rights, but in the US every group has the right to protest peacefully.

Ah yes. We all remember the body count from those 6 months of protests (2, caused by a right wing militant who was in a place he shouldn't have been with a gun he shouldn't have had), as opposed to the typical peace found in that one day 'protest' (5 dead, one of which was a cop).

At least as much violence, for sure.

[GMDino]

I'm glad we've moved on to the real issues about how bad BLM is and why police shouldn't be criticized when they do something wrong.

Took less than a week.

Great.

Back to the story I was listening to a podcast (they stir some questions for me) and I got to thinking that so many Trump defenders and even just the run of the mill Republicans are out here saying :Well, what can ya do?" about any kind of punishment for Trump.  They argue he's only in office for X amount of days anyway, as if he isn't still the most powerful man in the United States for those days with NO ONE stopping him from doing whatever he wants.  After four years of coddling and excuse making and attacking anyone who saw through the conman's act I've absolutely had it with these milksops.  

Show some spine or you will be replaced in future elections.

There won't be a call for "trial by combat"...there will be you losing your jobs and hopefully living a life of shame.

Every last one of you.

[GMDino]

(01-12-2021, 08:53 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Ah yes. We all remember the body count from those 6 months of protests (2, caused by a right wing militant who was in a place he shouldn't have been with a gun he shouldn't have had), as opposed to the typical peace found in that one day 'protest' (5 dead, one of which was a cop).

At least as much violence, for sure.

After saying the right uses them as a tool to get elected but they don't really care about them he just repeats their talking points.  Kinda funny.

[Au165]

Expect to hear Cruz and Hawley talk about how unconstitutional the no-fly list is if this occurs.

https://www.newsweek.com/ted-cruz-josh-hawley-no-fly-list-house-homeland-security-chair-1560748

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-12-2021, 03:37 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote:  
I'm confused. What are you asking us to understand and allow? Busting in and killing someone sleeping in their bed? Kneeling on someone's neck until they are dead? LEOs from across the country participating in the assault and ransacking of our capital? Or the passive reaction by some of those tasked with protecting our capital when it was under assault and our elected officials lives were in danger?

You're not confused, you're just buying into bullshit.  If you want to judge an entire profession from the acts of its worst members then that's on you.  This entire paragraph is silly.  

Quote:I'm in a union. And it annoys me when they protect shitbags for doing shitbag things. But my job is not to protect and serve. And so the consequences of a shitbag keeping their job in my line isn't really a big deal for anyone other than people like me who have to do their work.

Yeah, it sucks when unions work the way they are supposed to.  Trust me, it bothers me when a crap LEO keeps their job or largely escapes consequences because of union action, but guess what?  That's the unions job, to protect its members.  You should be frothing at the mouth about criminal defense attorneys though, after all their job is to get murderers, rapists and child molesters off.  You must really hate them, huh?

Quote:LEO unions should start using some common sense. Stop protecting the shitbags. Weed out the bad ones. And fix the culture. Because on Jan 6 21 it was proven to the world how broke it is. Protecting, enabling, and coddling shitbag LEOs has become a problem for all of us. 

It's baffling that you can actually be in a union and lack even a fundamental understanding of how unions work.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-12-2021, 11:54 AM)Au165 Wrote: Expect to hear Cruz and Hawley talk about how unconstitutional the no-fly list is if this occurs.

https://www.newsweek.com/ted-cruz-josh-hawley-no-fly-list-house-homeland-security-chair-1560748

Well, quite honestly the no fly list is unconstitutional.  It has enormous consequences and there is zero due process in getting placed on it.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-12-2021, 10:11 AM)GMDino Wrote: I'm glad we've moved on to the real issues about how bad BLM is and why police shouldn't be criticized when they do something wrong.

Took less than a week.

Every last one of you.

No one is saying that, shut up with your childish hyperbole.

[Bengalzona]

(01-12-2021, 08:39 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Here is my problem with what went down. They keep saying "we had no information that it would turn out like this." Meanwhile, all over the internet, right-wing extremists were talking openly about doing exactly what they did. To paraphrase someone from the ADL I heard yesterday, this was the most known about terrorist attack we've had in the post-9/11 country. ADL trawls the internet and dark web for this stuff and they were providing information to the feds days, if not weeks, ahead of this. It keeps being said that they refused help from other agencies and started off not in riot gear because they didn't have evidence it would turn violent. That's a lie, and it makes them look really bad.

I believe what you are discussing concerns those in charge and, possibly, inter-agency relationships, whereas I'm discussing the tactical situation on the ground. I believe you have some good points about the leadership situation and I think that will be brought to the forefront with Congressional investigations. But as for the "soldiers on the ground" that day, it seems to me that they generally did the best they could in a literal shitstorm they did not create.

[Belsnickel]

(01-12-2021, 01:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Well, quite honestly the no fly list is unconstitutional.  It has enormous consequences and there is zero due process in getting placed on it.

I always have mixed feelings on it. On one hand, the Fifth Amendment seems like a pretty clear case that it is a violation of due process rights. On the other, is it an actual deprivation of liberty? Someone can still travel, just not by air.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-12-2021, 08:39 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Let's be fair, here, the officers doing things like what resulted in these suspensions certainly gives the perception of complicitness.

That should read, "some of the officers".  We have no idea why some of these officers are being investigated.

Quote:Which is why I said almost exactly that in an earlier post. LE is just used as a prop by the politicians.

Much like the military, yes.  But then, what isn't used as a prop by politicians?

(01-12-2021, 08:53 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Ah yes. We all remember the body count from those 6 months of protests (2, caused by a right wing militant who was in a place he shouldn't have been with a gun he shouldn't have had), as opposed to the typical peace found in that one day 'protest' (5 dead, one of which was a cop).

At least as much violence, for sure.

Really, no one died or was killed at BLM or Antifa protests?  One need look no further than the CHAZ/CHOP in Seattle to put the lie to that ridiculous statement.  Also, the Rittenhouse incident is the clearest case of self defense I've ever seen.  Whether he should have been there (which is just your opinion) or whether he was carrying a weapon illegally (it would appear that he was) has absolutely zero bearing on whether he acted in self defense.

But seriously, your assertion that the Antifa/BLM protests resulted in zero deaths is just mind blowingly ignorant.

BTW, I feel this needs to be said so the usual disingenuous posters don't try and twist these statements.  I am responding to posts and assertions made.  I am not excusing or condoning what happened at the Capitol Building.  I would think that was obvious but...

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-12-2021, 01:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I always have mixed feelings on it. On one hand, the Fifth Amendment seems like a pretty clear case that it is a violation of due process rights. On the other, is it an actual deprivation of liberty? Someone can still travel, just not by air.

It's an interesting question to be sure.  I am amused by the Dems now gleefully wielding as a weapon when they were so horrified by it during the Bush years.  Myself, I tend to come down on the unconstitutional side of this argument.  Not being able to board an airplane can have devastating consequences.  What if you have to fly for work, well then I guess you no longer have a job.  What if a parent or sibling dies or is dying, well, hopefully they'll last long enough for you to get there by train.  I think the right to due process is very clearly violated in these instances, and it's the exact same reason I don't like how "red flag" laws are currently implemented in many states.

[Mer]

I'm not going to waste my time reading all the MSM stupidity that is most likely being spread in all the previous pages. I will tell you this:

I was at the capital on January 6th and I can give you a first hand account. Everyone there that I encountered were wonderful, peace loving Americans. There was a lot of prayer and patriotism. When it was time to walk to the capital building a bus pulled up and a bunch of people dressed in black with helmets and clear shields came out and stormed the capital. Now you can assume whatever you want but I know those people were not Trump supporters. I saw the whole thing with my own eyes.

Buckle up! You're all about to see history happen in the next 8 days. Please remember when it's all done that we're all Americans and on the same side. May God Bless you all and keep you safe.

[Belsnickel]

(01-12-2021, 01:50 PM)Mer Wrote: I'm not going to waste my time reading all the MSM stupidity that is most likely being spread in all the previous pages. I will tell you this:

I was at the capital on January 6th and I can give you a first hand account. Everyone there that I encountered were wonderful, peace loving Americans. There was a lot of prayer and patriotism. When it was time to walk to the capital building a bus pulled up and a bunch of people dressed in black with helmets and clear shields came out and stormed the capital. Now you can assume whatever you want but I know those people were not Trump supporters. I saw the whole thing with my own eyes.

Buckle up! You're all about to see history happen in the next 8 days. Please remember when it's all done that we're all Americans and on the same side. May God Bless you all and keep you safe.

I think I will trust the countless images and videos as well as the words of the people that stormed the building that show it was, in fact, Trump supporters that carried out the insurrection, as well as the FBI stating there is no evidence of this being a false flag operation, over a rando on the internet.

[Big Boss]

(01-12-2021, 01:50 PM)Mer Wrote: I'm not going to waste my time reading all the MSM stupidity that is most likely being spread in all the previous pages. I will tell you this:

I was at the capital on January 6th and I can give you a first hand account. Everyone there that I encountered were wonderful, peace loving Americans. There was a lot of prayer and patriotism. When it was time to walk to the capital building a bus pulled up and a bunch of people dressed in black with helmets and clear shields came out and stormed the capital. Now you can assume whatever you want but I know those people were not Trump supporters. I saw the whole thing with my own eyes.

Buckle up!  You're all about to see history happen in the next 8 days. Please remember when it's all done that we're all Americans and on the same side.  May God Bless you all and keep you safe.

K.

[Millhouse]

(01-12-2021, 01:50 PM)Mer Wrote: I'm not going to waste my time reading all the MSM stupidity that is most likely being spread in all the previous pages. I will tell you this:

I was at the capital on January 6th and I can give you a first hand account. Everyone there that I encountered were wonderful, peace loving Americans. There was a lot of prayer and patriotism. When it was time to walk to the capital building a bus pulled up and a bunch of people dressed in black with helmets and clear shields came out and stormed the capital. Now you can assume whatever you want but I know those people were not Trump supporters. I saw the whole thing with my own eyes.

Buckle up!  You're all about to see history happen in the next 8 days. Please remember when it's all done that we're all Americans and on the same side.  May God Bless you all and keep you safe.

History as in Biden being sworn in after the worst President of all time?  

Anything short of that is basically treasonous insurrection based on Trump's lies and false propaganda.

[Au165]

(01-12-2021, 01:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Well, quite honestly the no fly list is unconstitutional.  It has enormous consequences and there is zero due process in getting placed on it.

I agree, but it seems no one cares until they end up on it. It's kind of the same thing with drug forfeitures. 

[*Nately120*]

(01-12-2021, 01:50 PM)Mer Wrote: I'm not going to waste my time reading all the MSM stupidity that is most likely being spread in all the previous pages. I will tell you this:

I was at the capital on January 6th and I can give you a first hand account. Everyone there that I encountered were wonderful, peace loving Americans. There was a lot of prayer and patriotism. When it was time to walk to the capital building a bus pulled up and a bunch of people dressed in black with helmets and clear shields came out and stormed the capital. Now you can assume whatever you want but I know those people were not Trump supporters. I saw the whole thing with my own eyes.

Buckle up!  You're all about to see history happen in the next 8 days. Please remember when it's all done that we're all Americans and on the same side.  May God Bless you all and keep you safe.

You forgot the part where Biden showed up and deep fried and ate a bunch of orphans.  Were you even there, dude?