Televangelists - Religion gone bad?

[*bfine32*]

(11-05-2018, 02:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Even the Christians who support Trump should be offended by this.

John 1:14 is clearly about Jesus Christ.  

Who should I be offended at? 

[fredtoast]

(11-05-2018, 07:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Who should I be offended at? 

Because it implies that Trump is the messiah?

Oh, wait.  I don't guess that does offend you, does it?

Nevermind.

[*bfine32*]

(11-05-2018, 08:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because it implies that Trump is the messiah?

Oh, wait.  I don't guess that does offend you, does it?

Nevermind.

I asked who I should be offended at. Surprisingly you had no answer.

[fredtoast]

(11-05-2018, 08:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I asked who I should be offended at. Surprisingly you had no answer.

I did have an answer, but apparently it went over your head.  Let me make it a little more simple.

You (specifically) would not be offended by this because you actually believe that Donald Trump is the Son of God sent to save the world.

The only Christians who should be offended are the ones who do not think he is the messiah.

[*bfine32*]

(11-05-2018, 08:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I did have an answer, but apparently it went over your head.  Let me make it a little more simple.

You (specifically) would not be offended by this because you actually believe that Donald Trump is the Son of God sent to save the world.

The only Christians who should be offended are the ones who do not think he is the messiah.

Of course I don't believe Trump is the messiah. 

Who should I be offended at? 

[Mike M (the other one)]

I learned at 17 that a lot of it is a sham.
My Pastor left to go to a bigger congregation "to spread the word" to more people.
He drove one of the nicest cars in the Church Parking lot, and had a bigger house than most (and this church was full of middle upper class).

After talking to him for a while, it finally came out that it was about the money, he could make more at his new church than here.

After that, I lost a lot of faith in Religion in general.

[fredtoast]

(11-05-2018, 08:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course I don't believe Trump is the messiah. 

Who should I be offended at? 

The people who put up a billboard labeling Trump as the messiah i.e. "The Word became Flesh".

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2018, 12:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The people who put up a billboard labeling Trump as the messiah i.e. "The Word became Flesh".

OK. I'm offended at the guy that installed the billboard. 

[fredtoast]

(11-06-2018, 12:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: OK. I'm offended at the guy that installed the billboard. 

He was just doing his job.  You should be more offended by the people who came up with the idea and paid for it.

But only if you REALLY don't think Trump is the Messiah.

[GMDino]

You can't blame the evangelicals though...Trump lies to them about what he has done and they NEED to believe it it seems.

Story is a couple months old but...


https://nypost.com/2018/08/28/trump-to-evangelicals-therell-be-violence-if-we-lose-the-house/?utm_source=facebook_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

Quote:President Trump warned evangelical leaders in a closed-door meeting that there would be “violence” if Republicans lose the House in the November midterm elections.



“You’re one election away from losing everything that you’ve got,” Trump told the gathering, according to recorded excerpts reviewed by NBC News, comparing the GOP’s Democratic opponents to violent anti-fascist protesters.


“They will overturn everything that we’ve done and they’ll do it quickly and violently, and violently. There’s violence. When you look at Antifa and you look at some of these groups — these are violent people,” the president said at the Monday meeting.


“The level of hatred, the level of anger is unbelievable. Part of it is because of some of the things I’ve done for you and for me and for my family, but I’ve done them,” he continued.


“This Nov. 6th election is very much a referendum on not only me, it’s a referendum on your religion, it’s a referendum on free speech and the First Amendment.”


Trump’s comments echoed those of his lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, who [predicted Americans would stage a “revolt” if Trump were impeached.


Trump also repeated his false claim that he had gotten “rid of” a law forbidding churches and charities from endorsing political candidates.


“Now one of the things I’m most proud of is getting rid of the Johnson Amendment,” the president said. “That was a disaster for you.”


But the law remains in effect after Congress failed to overturn it last year.


Trump signed an executive order in May 2017 that he said eased enforcement of the Johnson Amendment — but the order has no teeth, the network reported.


Later, Trump repeated his claim that Americans were once again allowed to say “Merry Christmas” — thanks to him.


“Little thing — Merry Christmas. You couldn’t say Merry Christmas,” Trump said.


“I’m telling you — when I started running I used to talk about it and I hate to mention it in August, but I used to talk about it.
They don’t say Merry Christmas anymore,” he continued as the audience cheered.

“They say Merry Christmas a lot right now. It’s all changed. It’s all changed.”

I'l ask again, and again, and again until I get answers:  Why do you allow yourself to be lied to?  Why do you defend the lies?

[fredtoast]

(11-06-2018, 12:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: I'l ask again, and again, and again until I get answers:  Why do you allow yourself to be lied to?  Why do you defend the lies?

FAITH=Belief without proof.

Why do you think so many snake oil salesmen have been so succesful swindling religious people?  They are trained to believe things with no facts or evidence to support them.

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2018, 12:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He was just doing his job.  You should be more offended by the people who came up with the idea and paid for it.

But only if you REALLY don't think Trump is the Messiah.

Here's the deal:

I am unsure of the message the sign is trying to make. Is it suggesting that Trump is the savior or is it suggesting that even a flawed human can receive the word or could they be reaching for something else.

I would have to know the intent of those behind the message to determine my level of offense. I do know the sign got you to research the bible, my assumption it has motivated others to do the same; perhaps even someone who has never been exposed to the word at all. 

So in short: I am not offended by this sign; if I was told that anyone was asserting that Trump was the savior then I would share my thoughts with them. 

[GMDino]

(11-06-2018, 12:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Here's the deal:

I am unsure of the message the sign is trying to make. Is it suggesting that Trump is the savior or is it suggesting that even a flawed human can receive the word or could they be reaching for something else.

I would have to know the intent of those behind the message to determine my level of offense. I do know the sign got you to research the bible, my assumption it has motivated others to do the same; perhaps even someone who has never been exposed to the word at all. 

So in short: I am not offended by this sign; if I was told that anyone was asserting that Trump was the savior then I would share my thoughts with them. 

So you would NOT be offended even if the intent was to assert that Trump is the word made flesh?

Interesting take there for a Christian and non-Trump supporter.

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2018, 12:32 PM)GMDino Wrote: So you would NOT be offended even if the intent was to assert that Trump is the word made flesh?

Interesting take there for a Christian and non-Trump supporter.

Most likely not offended at the sign, but as I said I would share my thoughts with them. Now if the sign would have portrayed Trump on the Cross, standing in a robe with welcoming arms, or other images we associate with Christ, then I would be offended. What I see in the sign is Trump in a secular pose with a word of scripture beside it and a cheesy slogan. 

Glad you find that to be interesting. 
 

[fredtoast]

(11-06-2018, 12:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Here's the deal:

I am unsure of the message the sign is trying to make. Is it suggesting that Trump is the savior or is it suggesting that even a flawed human can receive the word or could they be reaching for something else.

How could you possibly get "a flawed man can receive the word" from this.  .  .  

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

You deserve the gold medal in mental gymnastics.

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2018, 12:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How could you possibly get "a flawed man can receive the word" from this.  .  .  

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

You deserve the gold medal in mental gymnastics.

Because, regardless what you think, you do not get to tell me what I believe or how I interpret the message. 

[Benton]

(11-06-2018, 12:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Most likely not offended at the sign, but as I said I would share my thoughts with them. Now if the sign would have portrayed Trump on the Cross, standing in a robe with welcoming arms, or other images we associate with Christ, then I would be offended. What I see in the sign is Trump in a secular pose with a word of scripture beside it and a cheesy slogan. 

Glad you find that to be interesting. 
 

I don't see how it would be saying Trump has received the word as the majority of his public comments are un-Christlike. 

Personally, I do think it's trying to say Trump is Christ returned, which is repugnant, and no different than depicting him coming down off the cross or in robes blessing people.The images we associate with it (cross, robes, stigmata, etc) don't matter as much as the word. That particular verse is typically used to reference the fulfillment of prophecy that God would become man.

Of course, a group has stepped forward claiming the billboard is their's, and they weren't trying to equate Trump with Christ, but instead as a messenger.

Quote:Our billboard IS NOT equating Jesus with President Donald Trump. Salvation comes only from a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not any man. But God does send his messengers to us, and just as King David liberated the faithful in his day, President Trump is doing this today through his protection of the unborn, defense of our land against foreign invaders and standing up for Israel. He surrounds himself with champions for Christian Rights –Mike Pence, Neil Gorsuch, and Brett Kavanaugh. Compared to the disaster of a president we had in Obama, how is this not the “word become flesh” for Americans? As Christians we must not stand against God’s will despite the persecution we face for doing so.

https://www.kmov.com/news/make-the-gospel-great-again-large-billboard-of-trump-removed/article_538f78d0-e0a9-11e8-b68e-4735053c1e10.html

Which, if that's true, these people are morons and could have selected from dozens of verses about those come to share His word. I'd recommend Proverbs 13:17. But honestly, I don't think the Facebook group is being honest, I think someone is trying to brush off some conservative fallout right before an election after an idiot put up a controversial message equating Trump to Christ, as the verse quoted isn't really about messengers, it's about prophecy and God's authority.

[fredtoast]

(11-06-2018, 12:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Because, regardless what you think, you do not get to tell me what I believe or how I interpret the message. 

I was not "telling".  I was "asking".

Care to answer? 

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2018, 01:04 PM)Benton Wrote: I don't see how it would be saying Trump has received the word as the majority of his public comments are un-Christlike. 

Personally, I do think it's trying to say Trump is Christ returned, which is repugnant, and no different than depicting him coming down off the cross or in robes blessing people.The images we associate with it (cross, robes, stigmata, etc) don't matter as much as the word. That particular verse is typically used to reference the fulfillment of prophecy that God would become man.

Of course, a group has stepped forward claiming the billboard is their's, and they weren't trying to equate Trump with Christ, but instead as a messenger.

https://www.kmov.com/news/make-the-gospel-great-again-large-billboard-of-trump-removed/article_538f78d0-e0a9-11e8-b68e-4735053c1e10.html

Which, if that's true, these people are morons and could have selected from dozens of verses about those come to share His word. I'd recommend Proverbs 13:17. But honestly, I don't think the Facebook group is being honest, I think someone is trying to brush off some conservative fallout right before an election after an idiot put up a controversial message equating Trump to Christ, as the verse quoted isn't really about messengers, it's about prophecy and God's authority.

How Christian of you to not believe them and the message they were trying to convey. Billboards are more about the visual image than the words, we can just agree to disagree on that. Words are important on traffic signs. There is nothing in that image that leads me to believe they are trying to equate Trump to Christ.

Could they have chosen a better verse? Perhaps, but one always could. 

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2018, 01:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I was not "telling".  I was "asking".

Care to answer? 

You weren't asking as it has already been answered (The image of Trump is secular). You were awarding medals for mental gymnastics