Televangelists - Religion gone bad?

[fredtoast]

(11-06-2018, 01:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You weren't asking as it has already been answered (The image of Trump is secular). 

You can't just ignore the quoted scripture and pretend it does not exist.  The scripture is a direct refernce to Jesus Christ.  It has noting to do with prophets or King David or a "flawed man"

Or maybe you can pretend it does not exist.  Just depends on how desperate you are.

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2018, 01:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't just ignore the quoted scripture and pretend it does not exist.  The scripture is a direct refernce to Jesus Christ.  It has noting to do with prophets or King David or a "flawed man"

Or maybe you can pretend it does not exist.  Just depends on how desperate you are.

Or you can ignore the reasoning the folks that are responsible for the billboard provided. Just depends on how desperate you are.

No one is ignoring the words, simply stating you assigned motivation for the passage does not match the image provided.

You can agree with Benton that words are more than images on billboards if you want. I tell you I would be offended (I guess that's the word we are using) if they had depicted him on the cross and not one word on the billboard. 

[GMDino]

(11-06-2018, 01:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How Christian of you to not believe them and the message they were trying to convey. Billboards are more about the visual image than the words, we can just agree to disagree on that. Words are important on traffic signs. There is nothing in that image that leads me to believe they are trying to equate Trump to Christ.

Could they have chosen a better verse? Perhaps, but one always could. 

Scene: Group of people sitting around a dining room table.  Mostly older, white americans

1st man: "Ok folks...it's just a short time until the midterm elections and I know we're all really afraid that those Christian hating liberals are going to win a few seats so we HAVE to come up with a plan to get our message out!"

2nd man: "So we came up with the idea of getting a billboard."

(General murmuring that this is a good idea.)

1st man: "What we are picturing is a huge picture of President Trump, mouth wide open, arms up.  Gives him that "preaching to the congregation" look."

Woman: "Very presidential looking too."

(general murmuring in agreement)

1st man: "And we are going with the message 'Make the GOSPEL great again!"

(excitement builds from the others around the table)

2nd man: "Honestly we haven't had a President who has spoken the Word more clearly since Reagan and we need to show they godless commies that Mr. Trump has been sent here to save us all from them!

(pounding of table and agreement rises from the others)

Woman: "I was thinking though...perhaps we could add a quote from scripture.  Really drive the point home with the words of our God as if they are coming from the President himself?"

2nd man: "Excellent!  Really will add to the image of Trump preaching to the masses!"

1st man: "But what we need is a quote that is specific to our message that Donald Trump was elected due to divine providence in order to help us spread the word of Jesus Christ."

(more murmuring and the occasional suggestion of a  verse as they group talks among itself)

1st man: "I've got it!  John 1:6-15!  Roger, read that to us."

(Older man stands and reads the verses aloud to the group)

Roger: "6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.


14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.



15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”)"


Woman: "It's perfect!  It speaks of John coming to announce the coming of Jesus!  But is it too, I don't know, long for a billboard?"


1st man: "You're right.  We need to limit it to one verse that really drives home that President Trump is where he is not just thanks to God but also to spread the word of God!"


Woman: "So we use John 1:7-8..."


2nd man (interrupting her) "No, I was leaning more toward 1: 14."

Woman: "But that is not about John at all it's about Jesus coming to...."


1st man: "Yes!  It will be just like Trump is speaking those words!"

Woman: "But might that make look like we're saying President Trump is the 'word made flesh' instead?"

1st man: "Why would anyone think that?"

Woman: "Because that's the quote under a picture of the President."

2nd man: "It's pretty obvious we are saying Trump is like John by having his mouth open like HE is speaking the words...I don't see how that could be misinterpreted at all."


Woman: "But if we just use the verse explaining what John did...."


1st man: "So it's agreed then."

Woman: "Well no...."

2nd man: "This will be a CLEAR message that President Trump is a messenger for Jesus.  No other way to interpret that verse under his picture in my eyes"

(General murmuring)


The end.

[XenoMorph]

generally its all bad with religion...


but whatever floats someones boat...

[Benton]

(11-06-2018, 01:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How Christian of you to not believe them and the message they were trying to convey. 

A corrupt tree doesn't bear good fruit.

Quote:Billboards are more about the visual image than the words, we can just agree to disagree on that. 

Scripture is more about God's words than visuals. Taking what God said (in this instance, that He would give physical form to his word) and putting that on a picture of anyone is saying that person is fulfillment of God's word. You can disagree with that all you want... and you'll be wrong.

Quote:Words are important on traffic signs. 

You're comparing the Bible to a traffic sign?

That's disappointing.

Quote:There is nothing in that image that leads me to believe they are trying to equate Trump to Christ.

 Agreed. That's why the words matter.

A picture of Donald Trump no way implies he's divine. A picture of Donald Trump with a Biblical verse about God coming to Earth implies that he is.

Quote:Could they have chosen a better verse? Perhaps, but one always could. 

Their message is clear. As is you're attempt to deflect.

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2018, 02:52 PM)Benton Wrote: 1. A corrupt tree doesn't bear good fruit.


2. Scripture is more about God's words than visuals. Taking what God said (in this instance, that He would give physical form to his word) and putting that on a picture of anyone is saying that person is fulfillment of God's word. You can disagree with that all you want... and you'll be wrong.


4. You're comparing the Bible to a traffic sign? That's disappointing.


 4. Agreed. That's why the words matter.  A picture of Donald Trump no way implies he's divine. A picture of Donald Trump with a Biblical verse about God coming to Earth implies that he is.


5. Their message is clear. As is you're attempt to deflect.

1. Nor should we pass judgement on each other any longer, but we all stumble

2. Well as long as you're keeping score, I've got a good feeling that the other person will always be wrong. But I'm still going to roll with the impact of a billboard that we fly by everyday is more in the image than wording, but as I said we can agree to disagree; but you seem to want to go more with the "you're wrong route"

3. No I was comparing a billboard to a traffic sign. Your comprehension of the point is disappointing

4. Glad we agree that there is nothing visual in that billboard that is trying to equate Trump to Christ

5. There message is not clear; it is conflicting in the assertion that they are trying to equate Trump to Christ. Call it deflecting if you want, just not sure who I'm deflecting for. Is it for the folks that state their intention is not to equate Trump to Christ? 

[Bengalzona]

There is a gamut of TV evangelists ranging from horrible money-grubbing asshats (Creflo Dollar, Robert Tilton, T.D. Jakes, Joel Osteen, and Kenneth Copeland) to some apologists with some pretty good messages and intentions (Frank Turek, Charles Swindoll, Ravi Zaccharias, etc.). It's sort of the nature of TV in America: caveat emptor.... "let the buyer beware".

[Benton]

(11-06-2018, 03:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 1. Nor should we pass judgement on each other any longer, but we all stumble

2. Well as long as you're keeping score, I've got a good feeling that the other person will always be wrong. But I'm still going to roll with the impact of a billboard that we fly by everyday is more in the image than wording, but as I said we can agree to disagree; but you seem to want to go more with the "you're wrong route"

3. No I was comparing a billboard to a traffic sign. Your comprehension of the point is disappointing

4. Glad we agree that there is nothing visual in that billboard that is trying to equate Trump to Christ

5. There message is not clear; it is conflicting in the assertion that they are trying to equate Trump to Christ. Call it deflecting if you want, just not sure who I'm deflecting for. Is it for the folks that state their intention is not to equate Trump to Christ? 

1. No judging, just taking it for what it is: an image of a man with scripture about God coming to Earth.

Quote:This verse describes the incarnation, the central fact of the entire Bible. It is the key to understanding everything else the Scriptures teach about God, human beings, the meaning of history, time and life itself. And what does the incarnation mean? Simply this: The one, eternal, triune God of holiness and love; the very God who created the world and everything in it; this very God has Himself entered into the world that He made, and He did so in the most personal and intimate of ways–as a Baby in a manger, as a Man on a tree.

https://billygraham.org/decision-magazine/november-2006/the-word-became-flesh/

2. Because you are. It's ok to be wrong, even I am on occasion. But in this instance, it's a billboard with a verse about God taking human form and a picture of a person. I don't know what they're message is, but the implied is that Trump is God. That's abhorrent.

3. Sure.

4. I believe we both agree on what the billboard is about. I don't believe you're being honest about the interpretation. And, yes, it is — consciously or accidentally — trying to compare Trump to Christ.

5. Not sure where there would be a conflict. It's a picture of a guy and scripture about God becoming a guy. If the message is anything outside of "Trump is something divine" then they sent the wrong message.