Thoughtson Biden's speech/plan?

[fredtoast]

Typical ask for everything in order to get something.

But eventually I think his message will get through to the middle class. We need a capitalist economy to promote efficiency and progress, but unregulated capitalism leads to all the money in the hands of an elite few at the very top.

For years now the right/Republicans have been able to convince many in the middle class that making rich people richer was better for everyone. But the middle class has been squeezed for so long it is about to reach its limit. Jobs have not just disappeared overseas. They have also disappeared to innovation, and that tend is on the cusp of exploding with recent developments in Artificial Intelligence and robot technology. If the government does not step in to provide some balance and protection to the current system pretty soon the middle class will be non-existent.

[Dill]

(04-29-2021, 08:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Typical ask for everything in order to get something.

But eventually I think his message will get through to the middle class.  We need a capitalist economy to promote efficiency and progress, but unregulated capitalism leads to all the money in the hands of an elite few at the very top.

For years now the right/Republicans have been able to convince many in the middle class that making rich people richer was better for everyone.  But the middle class has been squeezed for so long it is about to reach its limit.  Jobs have not just disappeared overseas.  They have also disappeared to innovation, and that tend is on the cusp of exploding with recent developments in Artificial Intelligence and robot technology.  If the government does not step in to provide some balance and protection to the current system pretty soon the middle class will be non-existent.

Ben Domenech thinks Biden's speech was a "tissue of lies."

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/foxs-ben-domenech-completely-dismisses-chris-wallace-praise-of-bidens-tissue-of-lies-speech/

Martha MacCallum threw to Domenech moment before Senator Tim Scott gave his rebuttal.

“Last time I was on the air talking at the same time as Chris Wallace about a Joe Biden speech he waxed eloquent about how it was ‘so powerful and unifying,'” Domenech opened. “I don’t think that turned out to be true at all; I think it turned out to be a tissue of lies Republicans rejected. It’s something that did not lead to any bipartisanship. I expect the same results in this speech.”

Domenech then pivoted from calling out Wallace to predictably criticizing Biden’s speech. “It will be a political blip, immediately forgotten it won’t change the course of anything in Washington which is a now mono-partisan affair under Joe Biden.”

According to snap polls, Wallace’s prediction that the speech would be popular with the American people has thus far proven to be true. A CBS/YouGov poll reports that “Speech viewers described the president as  ‘Presidential,’ ‘Caring,’ ‘Inspiring’ and ‘Bold,’ and that “Eighty-five percent of Americans who watched Mr. Biden’s first address to a joint session of Congress overwhelmingly approve of his speech.

[*Nately120*]

Ted Cruz dozing off during it has got to spell doom for his political career since Republicans hate sleepy politicians so much these days.

[Dill]

(04-30-2021, 03:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ted Cruz dozing off during it has got to spell doom for his political career since Republicans hate sleepy politicians so much these days.

But it was a way of publicly dissing Biden and Dems.  

It probably helped way more than it hurt.

[*Nately120*]

(04-30-2021, 05:38 PM)Dill Wrote: But it was a way of publicly dissing Biden and Dems.  

It probably helped way more than it hurt.

Oh I'm sure it will play well with his base, just like the republicans who doodled and refused to pay attention during the impeachment hearings.  Hell, make me a GOP representative and I'll be so dismissive to Biden that I'll refuse to even step into the same state as him.

[*jason*]

(04-30-2021, 03:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ted Cruz dozing off during it has got to spell doom for his political career since Republicans hate sleepy politicians so much these days.

Putting up with an ugly wife is exhausting... And those diva daughters. Oy vey...

[Older Than You Too]

It's obvious he has dementia.

[BFritz21]

We are being groomed for socialism and one party control. He said multiple times that our ‘form’ of democracy doesn’t work, it’s too slow, requires more government intervention, etc. These are the same general messages that Hitler, Mousselini and Stalin used to prepare their citizens for government takeover. More recently it was Hugo Chavez. He criticized China for being in bed together with Chinese companies...yet its exactly what the Democrats are engineering here. Spending in the many Trillions (what comes after Trillion??) will be the largest transfer of wealth in the history of the world. And it won’t be you or I that benefits...how will you feel working for the government? Because in essence, you will be. We have to stop this crap and stop it fast.

He's trying to destroy what made America great. He wants to give handouts.

[Dill]

(05-02-2021, 08:52 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: We are being groomed for socialism and one party control. He said multiple times that our ‘form’ of democracy doesn’t work, it’s too slow, requires more government intervention, etc. These are the same general messages that Hitler, Mousselini and Stalin used to prepare their citizens for government takeover. More recently it was Hugo Chavez. He criticized China for being in bed together with Chinese companies...yet its exactly what the Democrats are engineering here.  Spending in the many Trillions (what comes after Trillion??) will be the largest transfer of wealth in the history of the world.  And it won’t be you or I that benefits...how will you feel working for the government? Because in essence, you will be. We have to stop this crap and stop it fast.

He's trying to destroy what made America great.  He wants to give handouts.

China is in bed with Chinese companies?

I am rather familiar with Hitler's "general messages" to his party and to the German people. He was certainly interested in one-party control of Germany. But he didn't sound much like Biden. E.g. nothing about child care for working women and treating foreign-born with respect. Also, Hitler seems to have been PRO systemic racism. In his first 100 days as Chancellor, he actually managed to gain full emergency powers to rule as a dictator, to censor the press, to arrest opposition leaders, outlaw the Communist party and dissolve the SPD. He purged Jews from the civil service and constructed the first concentration camps for socialists. His private army of thugs, the SA, was integrated with the police to "enforce" the new order by beating people on the streets and arresting anyone who complained. Thus began the process of making Germany great again. Biden and the Dems are far behind if Hitler is the measure of "grooming for one party control." 

Stalin didn't "groom" Soviet citizens for one-party control using media "messages"; the Soviet Union was already a one-party state when assumed control of its government, and it became one via revolution, a coup.  I am trying to recall parallels with Mussolini, whose biggest step to power was his March on Rome. I do recall that he did not promise "handouts," but urged sacrifice in service of the nation. 

Also, I want to know why I won't benefit from the greatest transfer of wealth in history, which will involve taking tax money from U.S. citizens (especially the super rich) and using it to build roads and infrastructure and spur adaption to clean energy, also caregiving for the elderly (like myself) and much more. 

Also, just wondering--if federal money goes to a construction company to build a new bridge, would you view their employees as "working for the government"? 

 I ask these questions to better understand of what you are warning us.

[Goalpost]

(05-02-2021, 02:45 PM)Dill Wrote: Also, I want to know why I won't benefit from the greatest transfer of wealth in history, which will involve taking tax money from U.S. citizens (especially the super rich) and using it to build roads and infrastructure and spur adaption to clean energy, also caregiving for the elderly (like myself) and much more. 

CNBC did a check last week.  How long does one appear on a millionaires list?  The results were surprising to me.  After 10 years, only 9 percent of those that appeared on it, were still on it.  That's right.  91 percent of people 10 years later on a millionaire list are new people, not the same people.  Basically you are transferring wealth out of a short term success people had.  Is it a fair share that someone in NY who makes a million dollars can be taxed between 55 and 60 percent on it.  I only ask the question.  It's not a perpetual rich person we're dealing with.

There is also an argument that corporations are cheating on taxes.  Many of these corporations get tax credits, that well, congress people approved.  I mention this because you mention clean energy.  These companies have done exactly what the tax code encouraged them to do.  Changed their energy usage, at a cost, which is approved as a write off.  Now somehow, corporations are being blamed for doing exactly what the tax laws, and the people who made them, encouraged them to do.  I watched Elizabeth Warren asked this question last week, to which she basically ran away from.   How can you blame companies as a congress person, when companies are operating in a system that same said congress people created?

[fredtoast]

(05-03-2021, 04:09 AM)Goalpost Wrote: CNBC did a check last week.  How long does one appear on a millionaires list?  The results were surprising to me.  After 10 years, only 9 percent of those that appeared on it, were still on it.  That's right.  91 percent of people 10 years later on a millionaire list are new people, not the same people.

I need to see a link to this.

Not calling you a liar at all.  I just want to see the exact details of this claim.

[fredtoast]

(05-02-2021, 08:52 AM)BFritz21 Wrote:  And it won’t be you or I that benefits.

Why not?

[*Nately120*]

(05-02-2021, 08:52 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: We are being groomed for socialism and one party control. He said multiple times that our ‘form’ of democracy doesn’t work, it’s too slow, requires more government intervention, etc. These are the same general messages that Hitler, Mousselini and Stalin used to prepare their citizens for government takeover. More recently it was Hugo Chavez. He criticized China for being in bed together with Chinese companies...yet its exactly what the Democrats are engineering here.  Spending in the many Trillions (what comes after Trillion??) will be the largest transfer of wealth in the history of the world.  And it won’t be you or I that benefits...how will you feel working for the government? Because in essence, you will be. We have to stop this crap and stop it fast.

He's trying to destroy what made America great.  He wants to give handouts.

I wouldn't be in this country if my great grandparents didn't move away when Mussolini did his thing.  Every time one country goes down a path of ruin it's an opportunity for people to head somewhere that fits them better.  I'm not telling you to "GIT OUT" I'm just saying sometimes when a coutnry is going down the tubes you've got to move on. There is a reason ships have lifeboats, after all.

[Dill]

(05-03-2021, 04:09 AM)Goalpost Wrote: CNBC did a check last week.  How long does one appear on a millionaires list?  The results were surprising to me.  After 10 years, only 9 percent of those that appeared on it, were still on it.  That's right.  91 percent of people 10 years later on a millionaire list are new people, not the same people.  Basically you are transferring wealth out of a short term success people had.  Is it a fair share that someone in NY who makes a million dollars can be taxed between 55 and 60 percent on it.  I only ask the question.  It's not a perpetual rich person we're dealing with.

There is also an argument that corporations are cheating on taxes.  Many of these corporations get tax credits, that well, congress people approved.  I mention this because you mention clean energy.  These companies have done exactly what the tax code encouraged them to do.  Changed their energy usage, at a cost, which is approved as a write off.  Now somehow, corporations are being blamed for doing exactly what the tax laws, and the people who made them, encouraged them to do.  I watched Elizabeth Warren asked this question last week, to which she basically ran away from.   How can you blame companies as a congress person, when companies are operating in a system that same said congress people created?

Hey GP. Thanks for responding, and sorry I am late getting back to you.

I don't much mind if temporary millionaires get charged at the millionaire tax rate, but I'm wondering where you got the 55-60% number.

I thought the new top rate was 39.6. 

As far as the bolded goes, I never saw blaming corporations as some end in itself. And I don't think that is what Biden et al. are doing when they remind us of billion-dollar corporations which paid no taxes over the last few years. If you give them loopholes and subsidies and tax breaks they will take them. (I will too, by the way.) 

So the point is not to "blame companies" but to change the law. And that is what the Dems are trying to do now--because it has not been "the same" Congress people who gave them all those tax breaks. The Dems did not lead Trump's massive tax cut for the rich back in 2017. That's why it matters whom we vote for.

So far as I can tell, green incentives will remain.

[Goalpost]

(05-05-2021, 03:31 AM)Dill Wrote: Hey GP. Thanks for responding, and sorry I am late getting back to you.

I don't much mind if temporary millionaires get charged at the millionaire tax rate, but I'm wondering where you got the 55-60% number.

I thought the new top rate was 39.6. 

Yea.  I see the 55-60 figure as total tax result.  I guess that includes state and local and also maybe the effects on capital gains proposed  It is complicated but that's what CNBC uses.  New York is used as their main example because taxes are already high there.  NY City, metro area, is half the size population wise as the entire state of Florida, but the expense budget NY city has proposed is equal to the state of Florida's budget.  There is 'flight' occurring right now because of taxing.    

[BFritz21]

(05-03-2021, 08:21 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Why not?

Because everything will start collapsing, the government will take over, and the dollar will be devalued, just to name a few reasons.  

The elite at the top may benefit, but the normal people won't.  

You can't take from the rich and give to the poor because then the rich start laying people off and stop opening new businesses and other things that create jobs.  You can't just say "we're going to make things equal by taking from (x) and giving to (y)."  Raising taxes also just raises prices to offset them.  That's not the way the world works and it's not how America became great.

That's socialism, and socialism always fails, even so-called "democratic socialism."

Look at the places that have tried those things: Cuba, Venezuela, Sweden, and notice that they all fail.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2021, 02:49 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: You can't take from the rich and give to the poor because then the rich start laying people off and stop opening new businesses and other things that create jobs. 

No they won't.  This is just absurd.

Would rich people rather make a million dollars and pay 30% tax or make nothing?

Absolutely NO ONE is going to chose making nothing over making something and paying taxes on what they make.

[BFritz21]

(05-09-2021, 03:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No they won't.  This is just absurd.

Would rich people rather make a million dollars and pay 30% tax or make nothing?

Absolutely NO ONE is going to chose making nothing over making something and paying taxes on what they make.

I don't think you realize how the economy works or businesses work.

You don't make more money just for hiring people.  When you hire people, you have to pay them.  Hiring people doesn't automatically make you money.  

If your business is doing well, hiring more people makes your business work more efficient, but businesses hire more people as they're growing, so you can't tax the rich heavily and give them less money to hire people.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2021, 02:49 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Look at the places that have tried those things: Cuba, Venezuela, Sweden, and notice that they all fail.

How did Sweden's economy fail.  they have one of the highest GDP per capita in the world.  They have a very high standard of living.  So where is the "fail"?

[BFritz21]

(05-09-2021, 04:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How did Sweden's economy fail.  they have one of the highest GDP per capita in the world.  They have a very high standard of living.  So where is the "fail"?

It failed in the 70s and 80s when they tried it.

It's not a socialist country anymore.

Did you not know that or did you just think I was too stupid to know?