Time for Nugent to go

[reuben.ahmed]

Yep, I guess just because we can see some other kickers perform poorly does not mean that magically Nugent is amazing.

His overall 50yard+ accuracy is not a winning formula, I definitely worry we will lose a game (or playoff game) because of his leg. It's not as much a concern when we have a ton of other problems, I guess.

[fredtoast]

(10-25-2016, 01:41 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote:  Marvin hardly let him attempt any because his leg is weak.   

Nugent is a game changer for us and not in a good way.  We always have to punt from the opponents 40, which then ends up a touchback.  So basically they get the around the same spot as if we kicked off.  Except we're missing the 3 points.  Or we could go for it on 4th and 7, which sometimes pays off and sometimes does not.

Last year Nugent attempted 3 FG from 50+.  The league average was 5.  You make it sound like every other team in the league is automatically getting 3 from 50+, but that just is not true.

The difference between Nugents attempts from 50+ and other teams is about one every 8 games.  Thta is far from being a "game changer".

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2016, 02:32 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Yep, I guess just because we can see some other kickers perform poorly does not mean that magically Nugent is amazing.

No one is saying that Nugent is amazing.  But it is stupid to claim that he should be cut because "anyone would be better than Nugent".

I wish the team would bring is more competition in the offseason, but the people who think that it would be easy to upgrade from Nugent are just wrong.

[JumboTron]

(10-27-2016, 03:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No one is saying that Nugent is amazing.  But it is stupid to claim that he should be cut because "anyone would be better than Nugent".

I wish the team would bring is more competition in the offseason, but the people who think that it would be easy to upgrade from Nugent are just wrong.

Yeah I have to agree with this.  I am a firm believer that Nuge needs to be gone, but we need to absolutely make sure his replacement is better (not that difficult) but still, we can't just take the approach of "plug-n-play".  Make sure the next guy is markedly better and more efficient and not just bring in a new kicker just because his name isn't Mike Nugent.

Al in all, just find someone better and soon because the guy just doesn't have it.

[XenoMorph]

(10-23-2016, 05:05 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Enough excuses. He's a huge liability (a la Brad St. Louis). Anybody at this point is a huge upgrade. Time for his defenders to take off their scarlet and gray glasses and realize he's done

Actually only kickers with a better make % would be better at this point.

[reuben.ahmed]

(10-27-2016, 03:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No one is saying that Nugent is amazing.  But it is stupid to claim that he should be cut because "anyone would be better than Nugent".

I wish the team would bring is more competition in the offseason, but the people who think that it would be easy to upgrade from Nugent are just wrong.

I never said anyone/everyone would be better than Nugent. It's not stupid to say the kid should be cut, though. Cut your sentence in half.

The team is 3-4, everyone deserve a spot...right? No. This team needs changes. Average is unacceptable, and we're below average.

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2016, 05:06 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I never said anyone/everyone would be better than Nugent. It's not stupid to say the kid should be cut,

Yes it is stupid to say he should be cut.

Who is available right now who is better than him?

[eoxyod]

(10-27-2016, 05:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes it is stupid to say he should be cut.

Who is available right now who is better than him?

Josh Brown

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2016, 05:16 PM)eoxyod Wrote: Josh Brown

Not available.

He is on the commissioner exempt list.

[JumboTron]

(10-27-2016, 05:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes it is stupid to say he should be cut.

Who is available right now who is better than him?

[2MinutesHate]

(10-27-2016, 03:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Last year Nugent attempted 3 FG from 50+.  The league average was 5.  You make it sound like every other team in the league is automatically getting 3 from 50+, but that just is not true.

The difference between Nugents attempts from 50+ and other teams is about one every 8 games.  Thta is far from being a "game changer".

 
If the league average is somewhere around 62%, then we should "average" around 2 points for each time we reach this area.  

3 seasons where he missed every kick from 50+ yards.
11-27 from 50+ yards (lifetime) (40.7%).
No higher than 23rd in touchbacks since 2011.
I think that's poor but you can spin it anyway you want it.
When Marvin decides to punt from the other team's 40 (or even maybe the 37  ) , you'll know what I meant about it being a "game changer".  Staying with the same kicker every single year is not improving.  I know good kickers don't grow on trees but I think we've got room for improvement.

[bengals73]

Robbie Gould would have been better than Nugent, but of course we missed out on him.

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2016, 05:33 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote:  
If the league average is somewhere around 62%, then we should "average" around 2 points for each time we reach this area.  

This makes no sense at all.

The average NFL team made just over 3 FGs from over 50 yards last year.  So how the hell do you figure that they all average 2 points every time they get in range for a 50 yard FG?

[JumboTron]

(10-27-2016, 05:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sorry, but your son is not good enough to kick in the NFL.

That didn't stop Nugent from making a living though.

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2016, 05:46 PM)JumboTron Wrote: That didn't stop Nugent from making a living though.

Don't know what this even means.  Every year Nugent has a higher FG% than other starting NFL kickers.  Despite missing 2 Sunday he is still 23rd in the league.

[XenoMorph]

(10-27-2016, 05:06 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I never said anyone/everyone would be better than Nugent. It's not stupid to say the kid should be cut, though. Cut your sentence in half.

The team is 3-4, everyone deserve a spot...right? No. This team needs changes. Average is unacceptable, and we're below average.

Its like quiting a job you hate... you don't just walk out unless you got another Better job lined up.

we could cut nugent... and end up with some crap kicker that kicks off out of bounds and cant make any field goal at all.

gotta have someone better lined up before moving on.  If he struggles more I think we see some kickers brought in over the bye week if for nothing else to motiviate nuge.

[2MinutesHate]

(10-27-2016, 05:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This makes no sense at all.

The average NFL team made just over 3 FGs from over 50 yards last year.  So how the hell do you figure that they all average 2 points every time they get in range for a 50 yard FG?

You're not a math major are you?

Ok, I'll put it in very simple terms for you.  If a team reaches field goal range of 50+ yards 100 times and they attempt to kick a field goal each time, (are you still with me?), they will make, say, 66 field goals and miss around 34 field goals.  (2013 NFL kickers make 65.8% from 50+)

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303482504579177862083737556

Here's the tricky part.  Each FG is worth 3 points.  66 X 3 = 198 points. 

Now we're going to get crazy and DIVIDE 198 points by 100 trips = 1.98 points per trip.  Crazy huh?  Let's round it up to 2 points just for argument's sake even though it's not exact. 

Face it,  unless you can go back in time and make Nugent's kicks for him, he's still 40.7% lifetime from 50+ and that sucks for an NFL kicker.  That's not going to change no matter how hard you try.

What's shocking is that since 2014 he's attempted 8 and missed 6!  (That includes his 0-2 for this year).  I doubt very seriously he's getting better.

You are not going to convince me Nugent is a decent long range kicker and I'm not going to convince you otherwise.

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2016, 09:18 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: You're not a math major are you?

Ok, I'll put it in very simple terms for you.  If a team reaches field goal range of 50+ yards 100 times and they attempt to kick a field goal each time, (are you still with me?), they will make, say, 66 field goals and miss around 34 field goals.  (2013 NFL kickers make 65.8% from 50+)

You don't watch much football do you?

Last year there were only 160 FG attempts of 50 yards or longer in 256 games.  That is 0.3 attempts per team per game.

I know just as much math as you, but the big difference is that I know enough about football to realize that no team in the league attempts a 50+ yard FG everytime they get in range.

So here is some more math (plus reality) for you.  160 FG attempts is exactly 5 per team.   62% for a full season would produce 9.3 points over 16 games.  41% would produce 6.2 points.  So the difference between Nugent and an average NFL kicker is 0.2 points per game.

What a "game changer"!  One full point every 5 games.  How could the Bengals ever overcome such a huge deficit?!?!?!?

[tlotharw]

(10-27-2016, 10:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You don't watch much football do you?

Last year there were only 160 FG attempts of 50 yards or longer in 256 games.  That is 0.3 attempts per team per game.

I know just as much math as you, but the big difference is that I know enough about football to realize that no team in the league attempts a 50+ yard FG everytime they get in range.

So here is some more math (plus reality) for you.  160 FG attempts is exactly 5 per team.   62% for a full season would produce 9.3 points over 16 games.  41% would produce 6.2 points.  So the difference between Nugent and an average NFL kicker is 0.2 points per game.

What a "game changer"!  One full point every 5 games.  How could the Bengals ever overcome such a huge deficit?!?!?!?

Thanks Geoff.

[2MinutesHate]

(10-27-2016, 10:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You don't watch much football do you?

Last year there were only 160 FG attempts of 50 yards or longer in 256 games.  That is 0.3 attempts per team per game.

I know just as much math as you, but the big difference is that I know enough about football to realize that no team in the league attempts a 50+ yard FG everytime they get in range.

So here is some more math (plus reality) for you.  160 FG attempts is exactly 5 per team.   62% for a full season would produce 9.3 points over 16 games.  41% would produce 6.2 points.  So the difference between Nugent and an average NFL kicker is 0.2 points per game.

What a "game changer"!  One full point every 5 games.  How could the Bengals ever overcome such a huge deficit?!?!?!?

Oh but you missed the most obvious point.  Marvin is not going to trot the Nuge out there 5 times because Marvin knows he don't have the leg for it.  He's never attempted more than 4 in a season. 

I'll take the guy with the leg to make the long field goal anytime.  You might think it's not important to be able to make a long field goal when needed but I do.  

How about I just let you prove to me how good Nugent is?  

His high FG%?  Nope (actually he's in the bottom 10 of the league). 
His deep kicks that lead to a high % of touchbacks?  Sorry. 

I just don't see the same greatness in the Nuge that you do Fred.  That goes for Marvin too.  Give me some more numbers that will make me feel better about the 0-7 playoff record, while you're making excuses for people.