Trump Is Giving This Country Its Identity Back

[Dill]

(04-16-2017, 06:49 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Trump is adapting his positions as-needed to fit the current problems.  That's what great leaders do.

To successfully adapt positions to current problems, as great leaders do, requires an ability foresee consequences, long term as well as short. It requires knowledge, experience and judgment.

Trump adapts his positions according to Breitbart and cable news reports, while publicly denying and calling out his own intel services--i.e., lack of knowledge, inexperience, poor judgment.

Foreign powers could conceivably guide Trump's foreign policy decisions by getting the right fake news on Breitbart.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-16-2017, 06:49 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Trump is adapting his positions as-needed to fit the current problems.  That's what great leaders do.

Explain how the situations changed to prompt Trump's 180 degree course correction on several topics this past week.

[BFritz21]

(04-17-2017, 12:48 AM)Dill Wrote: To successfully adapt positions to current problems, as great leaders do, requires an ability foresee consequences, long term as well as short. It requires knowledge, experience and judgment.

Trump adapts his positions according to Breitbart and cable news reports, while publicly denying and calling out his own intel services--i.e., lack of knowledge, inexperience, poor judgment.

Foreign powers could conceivably guide Trump's foreign policy decisions by getting the right fake news on Breitbart.

(04-17-2017, 01:37 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Explain how the situations changed to prompt Trump's 180 degree course correction on several topics this past week.

Assad became more hostile to his own people and required action to keep him in check.

North Korea became more adamant about developing nuclear weapons and became increasingly defiant in their actions, which required Trump to take action or risk a horrible situation developing.

The tunnel had recently started blocking US and Afghan forces from advancing in Afghanistan and it's bombing was necessary to keep ISIS from becoming a stronghold in the area and to prevent other terrorist activity.  

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-17-2017, 02:04 AM)BFritz21 Wrote:

Assad became more hostile to his own people and required action to keep him in check.

North Korea became more adamant about developing nuclear weapons and became increasingly defiant in their actions, which required Trump to take action or risk a horrible situation developing.

The tunnel had recently started blocking US and Afghan forces from advancing in Afghanistan and it's bombing was necessary to keep ISIS from becoming a stronghold in the area and to prevent other terrorist activity.  

The situations in Syria and North Korea are essentially unchanged. Assad isn't more hostile to his people. North Korea isn't more adamant or increasingly defiant. It's business as usual for both.

Syria was a flip flop. The MOAB bomb in Afghanistan definitely wasn't. I'm not sure what position changed regarding North Korea, if any.

Do you want to take a stab at the flip flops on NATO and China?

[Belsnickel]

(04-17-2017, 12:08 AM)bfine32 Wrote: The most ironic dynamic of this is: The ones that disagreed with his campaign promises are the ones making the most noise that he is altering them.

For me it isn't that I disagreed with everything. I found most of them to be ridiculous, and often not well thought out, but in truth he doesn't have an ideology and so I knew this was coming. I was one of those saying we didn't know whatbwe would get with Trump.

I think my issue is that I am social democrat populist, and when people fall for a populist message being spouted from someone who is anything but a populist it is going to do damage to the people. He is a show man and a confidence man, and enough people bought it in the right places to win him the electoral college.

[hollodero]

(04-17-2017, 12:08 AM)bfine32 Wrote: The most ironic dynamic of this is: The ones that disagreed with his campaign promises are the ones making the most noise that he is altering them.

This might be true, but maybe because it's about something else, which is unmasking. Making promises that are popular, but not achievable is a con man trick, and pointing that out is not ironic at all. 

The ironic thing is people still not seeing it. It really is.

[fredtoast]

(04-17-2017, 12:27 AM)bfine32 Wrote: As for me. I have enough faith in our process of checks and balances; that I really don't care.

Right, because you never supported Trump or opposed Hillary in any way.  You made thousands of posts argueing with people with who did not like Trump but somehow never supported the man.

[fredtoast]

(04-17-2017, 08:26 AM)hollodero Wrote:  Making promises that are popular, but not achievable is a con man trick, and pointing that out is not ironic at all. 

Rep.


Personally I am upset because I am stuck with a President who has no plan or consistent strategy to deal with anything.  He has no idea what he is doiung.  He got elected by telling a bunch of lies to a bunch of rubes who were stupid enough to believe it all or did not care if he was lying. 

And some people still can not understand why I should be upset about this? 

[Dill]

(04-17-2017, 12:27 AM)bfine32 Wrote: As for me. I have enough faith in our process of checks and balances; that I really don't care. I do get a kick out of watching folks losing their minds over it.

Checks and balances won't prevent a shooting war in Asia if Trump wants one.  Would you get a kick out of that? 
Nor will they prevent him from deporting parents of US children if the parents are "illegal."

Do you see a total separation between Trump's words and actions on the one hand and actual effects out there in the real world on the other?

[Dill]

(04-17-2017, 08:26 AM)hollodero Wrote: This might be true, but maybe because it's about something else, which is unmasking. Making promises that are popular, but not achievable is a con man trick, and pointing that out is not ironic at all. 

The ironic thing is people still not seeing it. It really is.

Yes that is the irony.

We are talking about ethics, the lack thereof, and total acceptance of that lack by the Trumpster base.
Some even find it amusing that people with ethics could be upset by the flim flam. Like those who saw through Trump from the beginning should now be happy this reckless incompetent P-grabber is in charge of the US military and changing foreign policy weekly.

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2017, 10:28 AM)Dill Wrote: Checks and balances won't prevent a shooting war in Asia if Trump wants one.  Would you get a kick out of that? 
Nor will they prevent him from deporting parents of US children if the parents are "illegal."

Do you see a total separation between Trump's words and actions on the one hand and actual effects out there in the real world on the other?

Nope, but I do get a kick out of the reaction from folks around here.

As I have said: It seems those that opposed him the most are the ones pointing out he is going counter to many of the promises he ran upon. I suppose it makes them feel better to try and point out: "See I was right." 

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2017, 08:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Right, because you never supported Trump or opposed Hillary in any way.  You made thousands of posts argueing with people with who did not like Trump but somehow never supported the man.

OK Dino. I have said a 100 times if it were only a 2 person race I would take Trump over Hills. Some liked his lies better some liked hers. I just find the new politicians make false campaign promises moral outrage to be amusing.

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2017, 08:26 AM)hollodero Wrote: This might be true, but maybe because it's about something else, which is unmasking. Making promises that are popular, but not achievable is a con man trick, and pointing that out is not ironic at all. 

The ironic thing is people still not seeing it. It really is.

Welp I suppose all you and others can do is "fight the good fight" and continue to self-assigned unmasking task for the next 3.5 years. always found construction more beneficial than destruction, but that's just me.

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2017, 07:40 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: For me it isn't that I disagreed with everything. I found most of them to be ridiculous, and often not well thought out, but in truth he doesn't have an ideology and so I knew this was coming. I was one of those saying we didn't know whatbwe would get with Trump.

I think my issue is that I am social democrat populist, and when people fall for a populist message being spouted from someone who is anything but a populist it is going to do damage to the people. He is a show man and a confidence man, and enough people bought it in the right places to win him the electoral college.

As I said a 100 times: Everybody wanted a Washington outsider until we got one. 

[GMDino]

(04-17-2017, 12:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope, but I do get a kick out of the reaction from folks around here.

As I have said: It seems those that opposed him the most are the ones pointing out he is going counter to many of the promises he ran upon. I suppose it makes them feel better to try and point out: "See I was right." 

So you can admit that those who saw through the snake oil sales pitch were right.

There's one.  Now if a few million others can have their eyes opened the country has a chance again....

[GMDino]

(04-17-2017, 12:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: OK Dino. I have said a 100 times if it were only a 2 person race I would take Trump over Hills. Some liked his lies better some liked hers. I just find the new politicians make false campaign promises moral outrage to be amusing.

You have also said you "don't support Trump".

Which is it?

And campaign promises are one thing...outright lying is another.  

[GMDino]

(04-17-2017, 12:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Welp I suppose all you and others can do is "fight the good fight" and continue to self-assigned unmasking task for the next 3.5 years. always found construction more beneficial than destruction, but that's just me.

Even if it's the construction of a lie built upon other lies?

What Trump has "constructed" so far is a mere fake facade in front of an empty warehouse.

[GMDino]

(04-17-2017, 12:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said a 100 times: Everybody wanted a Washington outsider until we got one. 

I believe a sane, rational, non con artist would be more accepted.  But some just want to focus on the "outsider" part of the equation.

Manson (either one) is an outsider.

*I* am an outsider.

The vast majority of this country are outsiders.

The one that have the millions of dollars to get elected is barely an outsider given all his political connections anyway.

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2017, 12:31 PM)GMDino Wrote: So you can admit that those who saw through the snake oil sales pitch were right.

There's one.  Now if a few million others can have their eyes opened the country has a chance again....

I suppose it depends on what you consider right. But if it makes them feel better and they would prefer being right over coming up with solutions then YES.

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2017, 12:35 PM)GMDino Wrote: I believe a sane, rational, non con artist would be more accepted.  But some just want to focus on the "outsider" part of the equation.

Manson (either one) is an outsider.

*I* am an outsider.

The vast majority of this country are outsiders.

The one that have the millions of dollars to get elected is barely an outsider given all his political connections anyway.

Trump was the perfect outsider. A successful businessman that had expressed Political views in the past. Comparing him to Manson lets me know you really have no legitimate counter.