Netanyahu has said similar things in the past. It doesn't really change the heart of the disagreement.
Israel felt threatened in the 60s. Probably rightly so. They launched attacks on Syria, Egypt and Jordan. They claimed land belonging to those countries and kicked out the Palestinians, who — understandably — want their homeland back. Israel says what most people who win wars say, tough luck, we won, get out. It's not as much about ethnic cleansing as it is about wanting what Palestinians see as an occupying army removed from their land.
(12-27-2016, 11:49 PM)Benton Wrote: so we give them billions so they don't sell military technology to Russia and china. And we know they would because they've sold military tech to Russia and China?
I want a dang refund then.
seriously though, that has nothing to do with it.
Right, like that's the only reason we give them money.
(12-27-2016, 06:09 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Learn how to read people. I said we pay them to keep that technology out of the hands of Russia and China.
So if you want to make comparisons, make it with Russia, China and Israel.
(12-27-2016, 09:30 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Where have you been? They have sold both some military technology in the recent past.
In fact, China is selling J-10's to Iran and those fighter planes have Israeli technology in them.
Also isn't Russia deploying Israeli Drones in Syria right now?
(12-27-2016, 11:49 PM)Benton Wrote: so we give them billions so they don't sell military technology to Russia and china. And we know they would because they've sold military tech to Russia and China?
I want a dang refund then.
seriously though, that has nothing to do with it.
(12-29-2016, 04:37 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Right, like that's the only reason we give them money.
(12-27-2016, 06:09 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Learn how to read people.
I said we pay them to keep that technology out of the hands of Russia and China.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
But I am glad someone finally said it--Israel cannot be an ethnic/religious state and a liberal democracy at the same time--especially if it holds millions of people under military occupation, while incrementally taking their land.
I've pondered about the entire situation a bit more since hearing about this.
When surrounded by brutal dictatorships and nations that habitually violate the human rights of at least half their population, it's pretty striking that Israel's the one everyone has a hard-on for. Personally, I don't find anti-semitism to be the culprit; I suspect it's more about near-far thinking, where it's easier to condemn Israel's actions because they seem like they should be more like us - no reasonable person expects that from the other nations in the region.
(12-31-2016, 01:30 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: I've pondered about the entire situation a bit more since hearing about this.
When surrounded by brutal dictatorships and nations that habitually violate the human rights of at least half their population, it's pretty striking that Israel's the one everyone has a hard-on for. Personally, I don't find anti-semitism to be the culprit; I suspect it's more about near-far thinking, where it's easier to condemn Israel's actions because they seem like they should be more like us - no reasonable person expects that from the other nations in the region.
I suggest you research how the modern state of Israel was formed.
(12-31-2016, 01:30 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: I've pondered about the entire situation a bit more since hearing about this.
When surrounded by brutal dictatorships and nations that habitually violate the human rights of at least half their population, it's pretty striking that Israel's the one everyone has a hard-on for. Personally, I don't find anti-semitism to be the culprit; I suspect it's more about near-far thinking, where it's easier to condemn Israel's actions because they seem like they should be more like us - no reasonable person expects that from the other nations in the region.
then why don't we meddle anywhere near the same amount in turkeys or moroccos affairs?
(12-31-2016, 01:30 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: I've pondered about the entire situation a bit more since hearing about this.
When surrounded by brutal dictatorships and nations that habitually violate the human rights of at least half their population, it's pretty striking that Israel's the one everyone has a hard-on for. Personally, I don't find anti-semitism to be the culprit; I suspect it's more about near-far thinking, where it's easier to condemn Israel's actions because they seem like they should be more like us - no reasonable person expects that from the other nations in the region.
Jordan, the country from whom Israel took the West Bank, has a very well liked king. Far from a brutal dictatorship. They have taken in the bulk of refugees, both from '48 and '67. Far from suppressing half their population, they have done their best to educate and raise their standard of living, while taking care of millions of refugees.
One reason we have "hard on" for Israel is that since Camp David it has received over 3 billion in foreign aid per year--by far the largest US aid recipient. It is not clear what the US gains from this. The costs are pretty clear though, as this support was one of the main reasons for 9/11. It has also led us to support dictatorships which suppress anti-Israeli dissent, especially in Egypt. Virtually all anti-Americanism in the region has its roots in this support for Israel.
Another reason we have a hard on for Israel is that, because our support floats its economy, we have (theoretically) more leverage than anyone else over its policies. Other countries pressure us act in good faith as a peace broker. We do expect a country we support because it is supposedly the only liberal democracy in the region (though it is not) to behave like one. No "brutal dictatorship" in the Middle East holds a captive population under military control the way that Israel does. The double standard in our foreign policy is recognized throughout the world. Our veto of unanimous UN resolutions against the occupation and human rights abuses makes the US an arm of Israeli foreign policy, and our media audiences are a target for Israeli propaganda. Benton mentions one element of this in post #13 on this thread--the religious tourism to "the holy land" which helps align the religious right with Israeli policy as part of God's plan. Palestinians are the Biblical "philistines" whose challenge to God's chosen must be eradicated.
That is also why it is not easy at all to condemn Israel's actions in the US. AIPAC and similar groups rush to tar anyone who speaks out against human rights abuses in Gaza and the West Bank as anti-semitic. College professors lose their jobs for teaching about the Nakhba and current land theft/human rights abuses under the occupation--e.g. bulldozing homes and destroying olive orchards. Most Americans are completely unaware of what the settlement issue is about and settler violence against the Palestinians whose land they have taken. That is not an accident.
(12-31-2016, 03:49 PM)Dill Wrote: Jordan, the country from whom Israel took the West Bank, has a very well liked king. Far from a brutal dictatorship. They have taken in the bulk of refugees, both from '48 and '67. Far from suppressing half their population, they have done their best to educate and raise their standard of living, while taking care of millions of refugees.
One reason we have "hard on" for Israel is that since Camp David it has received over 3 billion in foreign aid per year--by far the largest US aid recipient. It is not clear what the US gains from this. The costs are pretty clear though, as this support was one of the main reasons for 9/11. It has also led us to support dictatorships which suppress anti-Israeli dissent, especially in Egypt. Virtually all anti-Americanism in the region has its roots in this support for Israel.
Another reason we have a hard on for Israel is that, because our support floats its economy, we have (theoretically) more leverage than anyone else over its policies. Other countries pressure us act in good faith as a peace broker. We do expect a country we support because it is supposedly the only liberal democracy in the region (though it is not) to behave like one. No "brutal dictatorship" in the Middle East holds a captive population under military control the way that Israel does. The double standard in our foreign policy is recognized throughout the world. Our veto of unanimous UN resolutions against the occupation and human rights abuses makes the US an arm of Israeli foreign policy, and our media audiences a target for Israeli propaganda. Benton mentions one element of this in post #13 on this thread--the religious tourism to "the holy land" which helps align the religious right with Israeli policy as part of God's plan. Palestinians are the Biblical "philistines" whose challenge to God's chosen must be eradicated.
That is also why it is not easy at all to condemn Israel's actions in the US. AIPAC and similar groups rush to tar anyone who speaks out against human rights abuses in Gaza and the West Bank as anti-semitic. College professors lose their jobs for teaching about the Nakhba and current land theft/human rights abuses under the occupation--e.g. bulldozing homes and destroying olive orchards. Most Americans are completely unaware of what the settlement issue is about and settler violence against the Palestinians whose land they have taken. That is not an accident.
(12-31-2016, 01:30 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: I've pondered about the entire situation a bit more since hearing about this.
When surrounded by brutal dictatorships and nations that habitually violate the human rights of at least half their population, it's pretty striking that Israel's the one everyone has a hard-on for. Personally, I don't find anti-semitism to be the culprit; I suspect it's more about near-far thinking, where it's easier to condemn Israel's actions because they seem like they should be more like us - no reasonable person expects that from the other nations in the region.
Because no one has a hard on for Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Lybia, or Syria.
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