As I've said before, the whole conservative lack of respect for Jill Biden being a doctor because she isn't a medical doctor would play a lot better if conservatives hadn't decided during covid that medical doctors were also know-nothing hacks.
Also, given the nature of this thread I'd like to point out that a wealth of advancements in forensics and law enforcement policy and procedure have come from people who have *GASP* non medical doctorates in the field of criminal justice! Back the blue who are fake doctors.
(03-31-2024, 10:47 AM)pally Wrote: Jill Biden, holds a Doctorate in Education. , as such she is entitled to use the academic title of Dr., just like Henry Kissenger and every other person who has a doctorate.
Do you laugh at all of them or just her? Why do you think her academic qualifications are laughable?
The Oxford English Dictionary defines doctor as the following
noun
1) a qualified practitioner of medicine; a physician.
2) a person who holds a doctorate.
Yes but she is a woman and a Democrat. To many that means she isn't only being called a Doctor not because she earned it but because she is a woman and a Democrat.
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(03-30-2024, 07:33 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think what bothers me with your position is that you ignore all his efforts that are in line with your views when it comes to things he has control over, giving him no credit, but when it comes to things he really has nothing to do with that you disagree with, you focus on that and blame him for it. It's an illogical argument.
It is hardly illogical. Let's use another example. Say Obama actually came out in support of same sex marriage early in his presidency. Do you not think that would shift attitudes further down the line, that it would have a ripple effect within his own party? People would take note, they would register that the leader of the entire party has made a public statement out of line with current party position. If you don't think that would be a significant sea change for that issue you're fooling yourself.
(03-31-2024, 10:47 AM)pally Wrote: Jill Biden, holds a Doctorate in Education. , as such she is entitled to use the academic title of Dr., just like Henry Kissenger and every other person who has a doctorate.
Do you laugh at all of them or just her? Why do you think her academic qualifications are laughable?
The Oxford English Dictionary defines doctor as the following
noun
1) a qualified practitioner of medicine; a physician.
2) a person who holds a doctorate.
I have a very good friend with a PhD in economics. he's a college professor. He'd be mortally embarrassed if you called him doctor. Unless you're a medical doctor you shouldn't be asking anyone to call you "doctor". It's pretentious as hell. Also, predictable left wing attack in 3,2,1...
(03-31-2024, 12:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yes but she is a woman and a Democrat. To many that means she isn't only being called a Doctor not because she earned it but because she is a woman and a Democrat.
Predictable, it has to be because of misogyny!!! The modern left uses these attacks so predictably, and often, that it's lost literally all meaning.
(03-31-2024, 01:01 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I have a very good friend with a PhD in economics. he's a college professor. He'd be mortally embarrassed if you called him doctor. Unless you're a medical doctor you shouldn't be asking anyone to call you "doctor". It's pretentious as hell. Also, predictable left wing attack in 3,2,1...
Predictable, it has to be because of misogyny!!! The modern left uses these attacks so predictably, and often, that it's lost literally all meaning.
It was explained to you, but someone you respect on the boards, why it is perfectly acceptable to call Dr. Biden, Dr. But you have another good friend that backs up what you already believe. Amazing how often that happens.
As to you quoting me I stand by it. Many do say it for only that reason. If you're not one congrats I guess, but I didn't quote you ro say you...so maybe stop making it about you.
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(03-31-2024, 01:06 PM)GMDino Wrote: It was explained to you, but someone you respect on the boards, why it is perfectly acceptable to call Dr. Biden, Dr. But you have another good friend that backs up what you already believe. Amazing how often that happens.
As to you quoting me I stand by it. Many do say it for only that reason. If you're not one congrats I guess, but I didn't quote you ro say you...so maybe stop making it about you.
I find it amazingly pretentious to have people call you Doctor simply because you have a PhD. I didn't say she couldn't do it, I just find it laughable, and it has nothing to do with her being a woman or a Dem. But, again, quickly throwing out -ist and -ism attacks is what you guys do best.
(03-31-2024, 01:01 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I have a very good friend with a PhD in economics. he's a college professor. He'd be mortally embarrassed if you called him doctor. Unless you're a medical doctor you shouldn't be asking anyone to call you "doctor". It's pretentious as hell. Also, predictable left wing attack in 3,2,1...
Predictable, it has to be because of misogyny!!! The modern left uses these attacks so predictably, and often, that it's lost literally all meaning.
that's a personal choicen for your friend.
Personally, most people with PhDs, that I know, worked their butts off to get that doctorate. They earned the title...so go ahead and use it. Its arrogant to dismiss others academic credentials just because they don't meet your standards of achievement
(03-31-2024, 01:23 PM)pally Wrote: that's a personal choicen for your friend.
Personally, most people with PhDs, that I know, worked their butts off to get that doctorate. They earned the title...so go ahead and use it. Its arrogant to dismiss others academic credentials just because they don't meet your standards of achievement
I find it arrogant to make other people refer to you as Doctor. Also, everyone with a PhD worked their butt off to get it. No one calls me Officer while I'm off duty, did I not earn that title? No one refers to me by my work rank when I'm off duty. I find it pretentious as hell, my personal opinion.
Every military member uses their rank even when not in uniform
Every former government person with a title uses it even after their terms in office end
Every minister uses their title
Heck even professional sports coaches are called coach
It takes no extra time to call someone by their title if that is how they present themselves. So if in real life you want to be called titled SSF that is what I would call you
(03-31-2024, 01:59 PM)pally Wrote: are you only picking on PhD holders?
Every military member uses their rank even when not in uniform
Every former government person with a title uses it even after their terms in office end
Every minister uses their title
Heck even professional sports coaches are called coach
It takes no extra time to call someone by their title if that is how they present themselves. So if in real life you want to be called titled SSF that is what I would call you
Cool, you do you. I find it pretentious, as I stated. If I was at a social event talking to a person and they insisted on being called Colonel, Senator or Reverend I'd have the same reaction.
(03-31-2024, 12:57 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It is hardly illogical. Let's use another example. Say Obama actually came out in support of same sex marriage early in his presidency. Do you not think that would shift attitudes further down the line, that it would have a ripple effect within his own party? People would take note, they would register that the leader of the entire party has made a public statement out of line with current party position. If you don't think that would be a significant sea change for that issue you're fooling yourself.
If we compare apples to apples, though, we have seen Biden come out in support of stronger criminal justice policies. Not only does his voting record show it to be the case, but he has made statements and proposed budgets since in the White House indicating this. What you want is the equivalent of Obama coming down hard on some Democratic mayor for their position on same-sex marriage that runs opposite to his. It wouldn't be his place to do that.
(03-31-2024, 02:23 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Cool, you do you. I find it pretentious, as I stated. If I was at a social event talking to a person and they insisted on being called Colonel, Senator or Reverend I'd have the same reaction.
So, I think context is important. Do I ever call any of the people I know with doctorates, doctor? Hell no. Do I use the title when writing about them? Absolutely. There is a difference in those contexts. Were I a journalist writing an article about you or where you were mentioned it would be "Officer SSF" or "[insert rank here] SSF." Same goes for reverends I know, military personnel, etc. I hang around with an Army LTC on a regular basis. I certainly don't call him "Colonel," but when I wrote a letter nominating him for an award, you best believe his name was preceded by "LTC" or "Lt. Col." depending on the appropriateness. On the same token, I call my PCP Shawn but refer to him as Dr. [insert last name] when talking about him to anyone else.
FWIW, anecdotally, most of the academic doctors I know that prefer the title to be used are women, and it stems from the patriarchal conditions in academia in which they are often disrespected.
Also FWIW, and not necessarily just directed at you, but Jill Biden's doctorate is not a PhD. It is an EdD, and there are even some PhDs out there that consider degrees like that "not real doctorates." Academia is full of jagoffs.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(03-31-2024, 02:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: If we compare apples to apples, though, we have seen Biden come out in support of stronger criminal justice policies. Not only does his voting record show it to be the case, but he has made statements and proposed budgets since in the White House indicating this. What you want is the equivalent of Obama coming down hard on some Democratic mayor for their position on same-sex marriage that runs opposite to his. It wouldn't be his place to do that.
Not really. What I'd like is his pointing out that failing to actually enforce the law endangers the average US resident. Honestly, I think if you and I were discussing this in person we'd burn through this topic in under ten minutes. He doesn't have to name anyone personally, he just has to state the obvious, that enabling criminals is irresponsible and dangerous. What I'd really like is a federal law requiring that any elected or appointed prosecutorial position require "X" years of experience as a prosecutor. Prosecutorial discretion is absolutely necessary, but it was created by people in a time in which what is happening now was an inconceivable idea. You have people running for DA, or equivalent who are flat out saying they will refuse to enforce certain laws. They are refusing to use enhancements when appropriate. I have zero issue with former PD's or private defense lawyers becoming judges, I have a major issue with them being handed the keys to the head prosecutor or US Attorney position.
Quote:So, I think context is important. Do I ever call any of the people I know with doctorates, doctor? Hell no. Do I use the title when writing about them? Absolutely. There is a difference in those contexts. Were I a journalist writing an article about you or where you were mentioned it would be "Officer SSF" or "[insert rank here] SSF." Same goes for reverends I know, military personnel, etc. I hang around with an Army LTC on a regular basis. I certainly don't call him "Colonel," but when I wrote a letter nominating him for an award, you best believe his name was preceded by "LTC" or "Lt. Col." depending on the appropriateness. On the same token, I call my PCP Shawn but refer to him as Dr. [insert last name] when talking about him to anyone else.
I concur, and yes, I'd agree with all of this. I still get mail addressed to Lt. "my name" and it's been over twenty five years.
Quote:FWIW, anecdotally, most of the academic doctors I know that prefer the title to be used are women, and it stems from the patriarchal conditions in academia in which they are often disrespected.
This has been my exact same experience as well. At the risk of being labeled a misogynist by the predictable parties I would add that nearly to a person they were very rude and condescending about it as well. Whether that is due to your stated reason or not I obviously cannot attest to.
Quote:Also FWIW, and not necessarily just directed at you, but Jill Biden's doctorate is not a PhD. It is an EdD, and there are even some PhDs out there that consider degrees like that "not real doctorates." Academia is full of jagoffs.
It is indeed. It's such an insular world they really do seem to be almost totally disconnected from the outside and it's very clannish.
(03-31-2024, 02:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: If we compare apples to apples, though, we have seen Biden come out in support of stronger criminal justice policies. Not only does his voting record show it to be the case, but he has made statements and proposed budgets since in the White House indicating this. What you want is the equivalent of Obama coming down hard on some Democratic mayor for their position on same-sex marriage that runs opposite to his. It wouldn't be his place to do that.
So, I think context is important. Do I ever call any of the people I know with doctorates, doctor? Hell no. Do I use the title when writing about them? Absolutely. There is a difference in those contexts. Were I a journalist writing an article about you or where you were mentioned it would be "Officer SSF" or "[insert rank here] SSF." Same goes for reverends I know, military personnel, etc. I hang around with an Army LTC on a regular basis. I certainly don't call him "Colonel," but when I wrote a letter nominating him for an award, you best believe his name was preceded by "LTC" or "Lt. Col." depending on the appropriateness. On the same token, I call my PCP Shawn but refer to him as Dr. [insert last name] when talking about him to anyone else.
FWIW, anecdotally, most of the academic doctors I know that prefer the title to be used are women, and it stems from the patriarchal conditions in academia in which they are often disrespected.
Also FWIW, and not necessarily just directed at you, but Jill Biden's doctorate is not a PhD. It is an EdD, and there are even some PhDs out there that consider degrees like that "not real doctorates." Academia is full of jagoffs.
My best friend is a medical doctor and I don't call, or introduce him as, "doctor X". But in professional settings people do.
Sometimes I really believe people just WANT to get upset about things.
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(03-31-2024, 03:17 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Not really. What I'd like is his pointing out that failing to actually enforce the law endangers the average US resident. Honestly, I think if you and I were discussing this in person we'd burn through this topic in under ten minutes. He doesn't have to name anyone personally, he just has to state the obvious, that enabling criminals is irresponsible and dangerous. What I'd really like is a federal law requiring that any elected or appointed prosecutorial position require "X" years of experience as a prosecutor. Prosecutorial discretion is absolutely necessary, but it was created by people in a time in which what is happening now was an inconceivable idea. You have people running for DA, or equivalent who are flat out saying they will refuse to enforce certain laws. They are refusing to use enhancements when appropriate. I have zero issue with former PD's or private defense lawyers becoming judges, I have a major issue with them being handed the keys to the head prosecutor or US Attorney position.
The problem with what you propose is that it would be unconstitutional. The federal government does not have the constitutional authority to make such a law. I definitely think that there is a real need to think about who we put in positions, though. I seriously had someone approach me about running for sheriff in my county, which I told them was a stupid idea. There are roles out there that do not have requirements that really should. How many judges sit on benches around the U.S. that had never been a trial attorney before? This is a big problem in multiple areas of our criminal justice system, to be quite honest. I don't see us doing anything similar in other fields, but we're more than willing to put people in charge of this stuff who have zero real-world experience.
(03-31-2024, 03:17 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This has been my exact same experience as well. At the risk of being labeled a misogynist by the predictable parties I would add that nearly to a person they were very rude and condescending about it as well. Whether that is due to your stated reason or not I obviously cannot attest to.
Depends on the individual. I know a few that walk around with a chip on their shoulder because of the academic environment. But then some of them are just shitty people. That's how the world works.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(03-31-2024, 03:35 PM)GMDino Wrote: My best friend is a medical doctor and I don't call, or introduce him as, "doctor X". But in professional settings people do.
Sometimes I really believe people just WANT to get upset about things.
Finding something laughable and being upset about it are completely different things. I do, however, understand why you don't grasp this difference.
(03-31-2024, 04:04 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The problem with what you propose is that it would be unconstitutional. The federal government does not have the constitutional authority to make such a law. I definitely think that there is a real need to think about who we put in positions, though. I seriously had someone approach me about running for sheriff in my county, which I told them was a stupid idea. There are roles out there that do not have requirements that really should. How many judges sit on benches around the U.S. that had never been a trial attorney before? This is a big problem in multiple areas of our criminal justice system, to be quite honest. I don't see us doing anything similar in other fields, but we're more than willing to put people in charge of this stuff who have zero real-world experience.
You are probably, sadly, correct. It is both a strength and a weakness of our system that states can have large areas of autonomy in which to subvert the system, in either direction. What you could absolutely do is make a law for US Attorney appointees. A lifelong defense attorney has absolutely zero business being appointed as a prosecutor. Their entire career was built in opposition to that.
Quote:Depends on the individual. I know a few that walk around with a chip on their shoulder because of the academic environment. But then some of them are just shitty people. That's how the world works.
Of course. I can only speak from my personal experience that those people exhibited the behavioral traits I named. As for that is how the world works, you reminded me of this.
We've had this discussion before.
Most people associate the term "Dr" to the medical field.
If someone is talking with their peers, ok, but when talking to the masses and not talking about your chosen field (English in this case), then it's meaning less and only used as a "i'm smarter than you cause i'm a Dr".
(03-31-2024, 05:40 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Finding something laughable and being upset about it are completely different things. I do, however, understand why you don't grasp this difference.
Oh, do tell. 'Cause you seem awfully upset about it.
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(03-31-2024, 06:09 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: We've had this discussion before.
Most people associate the term "Dr" to the medical field.
If someone is talking with their peers, ok, but when talking to the masses and not talking about your chosen field (English in this case), then it's meaning less and only used as a "i'm smarter than you cause i'm a Dr".
I must be super likable, because when people find out I have a doctorate they seem to enjoy calling me Dr. Nate, though I'd imagine the fact that I don't point it out probably helps me not come off as really wanting to shove it in people's faces. When people asked where I got it I either make a joke about sending in some box tops or say that I went to Trump University. I also mention how stupid I must be to have to be in school for that damn long.
Confident people aren't upset about the accomplishments of others, and I don't like being called Mr. either, so honestly I just prefer informality because I feel old enough as it is when all the pretty girls call me sir, so to speak.
But again, I also grew up calling uncles and aunts by their first names and not being overly formal with titles and hung up on ages, so I think that helps in the sense that if people think you want to be called "doctor" they won't want to do it, and if people think it's a bit of a novelty or even an eye rolling "over formality" they'll make a push to do it. I also had multiple professors in college who went by their first names and I was one of the few who'd insist on calling them Dr. _____, mostly because I was still stuck in Catholic upbringings mode.
Doctorates are like anything else; if you aren't big enough without one, you'll never be big enough with one.
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