We need to learn Christian forgiveness and look past Trump's past actions!

[Belsnickel]

(03-28-2018, 02:19 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Had we been aggressively enforcing the immigration policy none of these people would have fallen through the cracks to the point these hard decisions must be made.

The benefit of aggressive enforcement is people try and find the way to get right who are makes an honest effort to get right.

wasn't he a legal permanent resident, though?

[*michaelsean*]

(03-28-2018, 02:21 PM)Griever Wrote: nope, christianity (religion in general) has no place in the political spectrum

just that we have people who claim christianity, that the country are founded on christian principles, but then ignore parts of the bible that go against how they feel about a certain type of people

just pointing out the hypocrisy of folks

So what solution are you looking for and from whom?  Because the only solution I see is for them to stop being hypocrites as you label them, and allow this man to stay in the country because it's the Christian thing to do.  

[StLucieBengal]

(03-28-2018, 02:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: wasn't he a legal permanent resident, though?

A felony can forfeit his LPR status. I will check on that now and edit as necessary

Edit: http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/legal-issues-renewing-green-card-felony-conviction.html

Quote:If you are a U.S. lawful permanent resident and have been convicted of a felony -- or indeed any crime -- renewing your green card will put you at risk of removal from the U.S. (deportation). That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to renew the card. It expires every ten years, and you are legally obligated to carry a valid green card with you at all times. But you should absolutely consult with an attorney before submitting your renewal application. Here's why.
Your Crimes Will Become Known During the Renewal Application Process

In order to apply for a renewal of your green card, you must fill out and submit Form I-90 to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) and pay the appropriate fees for both the application and "biometrics." As you may know by now, USCIS's collection of biometrics data includes taking your fingerprints. After checking your prints against various databases, USCIS will find out whether you have any crimes on your record since the last time it reviewed your file.
If USCIS thinks that your crimes make you removable, it will place you into removal (deportation proceedings). That means that you'll have to appear before an immigration judge and defend yourself against deportation, very likely by arguing that your crime doesn't actually fit within one of the grounds of deportability (described below). If your argument fails, you will likely lose your lawful permanent residency and be deported from the United States.
What Crimes Make a Green Card Holder Deportable

The Immigration and Nationality Act (I.N.A.) contains a long list of types of crimes that make a green card holder deportable. It's far more complicated than saying, "You'll be deported with a felony." Some people who have committed a crime that is considered a felony in their state may nevertheless not be found deportable, while other people who have committed a crime that's considered a mere misdemeanor in their state will be found deportable.
For example, you can be found deportable for having committed:
an aggravated felony
a crime of moral turpitude within five years of receiving a green card
two deportable crimes at any time
a sex crime
a drug crime
domestic violence
a firearms offense
a fraud-related offense.

This is also interesting. Looking for it on USCIS now.

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/can-i-lose-green-card-and-be-deported.html

[GMDino]

(03-28-2018, 02:24 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So what solution are you looking for and from whom?  Because the only solution I see is for them to stop being hypocrites as you label them, and allow this man to stay in the country because it's the Christian thing to do.  

The bold is the best part.

[GMDino]

(03-28-2018, 02:19 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Had we been aggressively enforcing the immigration policy none of these people would have fallen through the cracks to the point these hard decisions must be made.  

The benefit of aggressive enforcement is people try and find the way to get right who are makes an honest effort to get right.

So you would have kicked this man out crime or no crime.  Despite him doing more this country than your or me.

What a world.

[StLucieBengal]

(03-28-2018, 02:44 PM)GMDino Wrote: So you would have kicked this man out crime or no crime.  Despite him doing more this country than your or me.

What a world.

Me personally? My own feelings are based on the law. If he had LPR then no. But his crimes forfeited his LPR status. So at that point he should Be deported.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-28-2018, 02:42 PM)GMDino Wrote: The bold is the best part.

How do you suggest they do this?  What do you think they should do as Christians?  And btw, the group who reviews these are given discretion.  

So give the solution.  The law says this guy can deported under the discretion of a board.  They chose to deport him.  What should the Christian nation that you don't want to be a Christian nation do?

[Belsnickel]

(03-28-2018, 02:36 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: A felony can forfeit his LPR status. I will check on that now and edit as necessary

Edit: http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/legal-issues-renewing-green-card-felony-conviction.html


This is also interesting. Looking for it on USCIS now.

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/can-i-lose-green-card-and-be-deported.html

So it is quite possible that his deportation is completely in line with the law. My guess, and I haven't read too in depth on this, is that his green card was up for renewal and he decided to apply for citizenship instead. However, conviction would not have led to deportation according to your link, it would've just been delayed until renewal.

[GMDino]

(03-28-2018, 02:46 PM)michaelsean Wrote: How do you suggest they do this?  What do you think they should do as Christians?  And btw, the group who reviews these are given discretion.  

So give the solution.  The law says this guy can deported under the discretion of a board.  They chose to deport him.  What should the Christian nation that you don't want to be a Christian nation do?

I think they should stop trying to BS people and actually ACT like Christians versus just SAYING they are Christians.  Pretty simple really.  And we'd all be better off.

A Christian nation, heck  even a RATIONAL nation, would look at a man who did two tours serving his country, one who committed a crime but was serving his punishment and bettering himself, and made him a citizen of the country he defended.  Instead we have leaders who care more about showing how they are making their scared constituency "safe" that they will follow the letter of the law no matter what as long as they can say they got another "illegal" out of the greatest country God ever created.

Clear?

[*michaelsean*]

(03-28-2018, 03:04 PM)GMDino Wrote: I think they should stop trying to BS people and actually ACT like Christians versus just SAYING they are Christians.  Pretty simple really.  And we'd all be better off.

A Christian nation, heck  even a RATIONAL nation, would look at a man who did two tours serving his country, one who committed a crime but was serving his punishment and bettering himself, and made him a citizen of the country he defended.  Instead we have leaders who care more about showing how they are making their scared constituency "safe" that they will follow the letter of the law no matter what as long as they can say they got another "illegal" out of the greatest country God ever created.

Clear?

No not clear.  You give these vague answers to a concrete situation.  What is your solution in this case.  Their is no letter of the law as you put it.  There is discretion, and even with that discretion, they chose to deport him.  So what do you want all the Christians to do about it?  What is the mechanism at their disposal?

[StLucieBengal]

(03-28-2018, 02:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So it is quite possible that his deportation is completely in line with the law. My guess, and I haven't read too in depth on this, is that his green card was up for renewal and he decided to apply for citizenship instead. However, conviction would not have led to deportation according to your link, it would've just been delayed until renewal.

Looks like the caught him during renewal. Or maybe he lost his card.

[*bfine32*]

(03-28-2018, 02:21 PM)Griever Wrote: nope, christianity (religion in general) has no place in the political spectrum

just that we have people who claim christianity, that the country are founded on christian principles, but then ignore parts of the bible that go against how they feel about a certain type of people

just pointing out the hypocrisy of folks

Nothing in this thread has shown hypocrisy in anyone. It has shown where some will try to make a feeble correlation in an attempt to show hypocrisy but  have failed miserably. The story in and of itself has legs; however, the correlation of this matter with Christian forgiveness is as Matt said 'just trolling".  

[Nebuchadnezzar]

So what you're saying is that we don't have to follow laws anymore and that we can just do whatever we want.

Oh I see, we have to follow the laws that you think are necessary but those you think, YOU THINK, are unjust we should just toss out or disregard.

[Belsnickel]

(03-28-2018, 03:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Looks like the caught him during renewal. Or maybe he lost his card.

What I am saying is it looks like the system is intended to catch them during renewal and not to automatically deport them.

[GMDino]

(03-28-2018, 03:15 PM)michaelsean Wrote: No not clear.  You give these vague answers to a concrete situation.  What is your solution in this case.

(03-28-2018, 03:04 PM)GMDino Wrote: I think they should stop trying to BS people and actually ACT like Christians versus just SAYING they are Christians.  Pretty simple really.  And we'd all be better off.

A Christian nation, heck  even a RATIONAL nation, would look at a man who did two tours serving his country, one who committed a crime but was serving his punishment and bettering himself, and made him a citizen of the country he defended.  Instead we have leaders who care more about showing how they are making their scared constituency "safe" that they will follow the letter of the law no matter what as long as they can say they got another "illegal" out of the greatest country God ever created.

Completely clear.

(03-28-2018, 03:15 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Their is no letter of the law as you put it.  There is discretion, and even with that discretion, they chose to deport him.  So what do you want all the Christians to do about it?  What is the mechanism at their disposal?

Try to read the post again.

[HarleyDog]

(03-28-2018, 01:59 PM)Griever Wrote: we all know christians cherry pick the bible...if they didnt, they would have to be ok with foreigners in the US (legal status doesnt matter either)

Leviticus 19:33-34 New Living Translation (NLT)
33 “Do not take advantage of foreigners who live among you in your land. 34 Treat them like native-born Israelites, and love them as you love yourself. Remember that you were once foreigners living in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.

Much like you cherry pick 2 versus to make a point? Read the whole thing then come back and give us a full report.

[StLucieBengal]

(03-28-2018, 03:28 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: What I am saying is it looks like the system is intended to catch them during renewal and not to automatically deport them.

Yes but if he had other pending stuff going on it would have popped up.

Probably had a request to remove conditions ongoing. That would have flagged him.

If he was auto deport he would have been deported long ago.

[GMDino]

(03-28-2018, 03:30 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Much like you cherry pick 2 versus to make a point? Read the whole thing then come back and give us a full report.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+19&version=NIV

Quote:Various Laws

19 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the entire assembly of Israeland say to them: ‘Be holy because I, the Lord your God, am holy.
3 “‘Each of you must respect your mother and father, and you must observe my Sabbaths. I am the Lord your God.
4 “‘Do not turn to idols or make metal gods for yourselves. I am the Lordyour God.
5 “‘When you sacrifice a fellowship offering to the Lord, sacrifice it in such a way that it will be accepted on your behalf. 6 It shall be eaten on the day you sacrifice it or on the next day; anything left over until the third day must be burned up. 7 If any of it is eaten on the third day, it is impure and will not be accepted. 8 Whoever eats it will be held responsible because they have desecrated what is holy to the Lord; they must be cut off from their people.
9 “‘When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. 10 Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen.Leave them for the poor and the foreigner. I am the Lord your God.
11 “‘Do not steal.
“‘Do not lie.
“‘Do not deceive one another.
12 “‘Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.
13 “‘Do not defraud or rob your neighbor.
“‘Do not hold back the wages of a hired worker overnight.
14 “‘Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block in front of the blind,but fear your God. I am the Lord.
15 “‘Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.
16 “‘Do not go about spreading slander among your people.
“‘Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor’s life. I am the Lord.
17 “‘Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in their guilt.
18 “‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.
19 “‘Keep my decrees.
“‘Do not mate different kinds of animals.
“‘Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
“‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
20 “‘If a man sleeps with a female slave who is promised to another manbut who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment.[a] Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed. 21 The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the tent of meeting for a guilt offering to the Lord. 22 With the ram of the guilt offering the priest is to make atonement for him before the Lord for the sin he has committed, and his sin will be forgiven.
23 “‘When you enter the land and plant any kind of fruit tree, regard its fruit as forbidden.[b] For three years you are to consider it forbidden[c]; it must not be eaten. 24 In the fourth year all its fruit will be holy, an offering of praise to the Lord. 25 But in the fifth year you may eat its fruit. In this way your harvest will be increased. I am the Lord your God.
26 “‘Do not eat any meat with the blood still in it.
“‘Do not practice divination or seek omens.
27 “‘Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.
28 “‘Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the Lord.
29 “‘Do not degrade your daughter by making her a prostitute, or the land will turn to prostitution and be filled with wickedness.
30 “‘Observe my Sabbaths and have reverence for my sanctuary. I am the Lord.
31 “‘Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God.
32 “‘Stand up in the presence of the aged, show respect for the elderlyand revere your God. I am the Lord.
33 “‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
35 “‘Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight or quantity. 36 Use honest scales and honest weights, an honest ephah[d]and an honest hin.[e] I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt.
37 “‘Keep all my decrees and all my laws and follow them. I am the Lord.’”

Sooooo.....are we supposed to ignore those two verses for some reason?

[*michaelsean*]

(03-28-2018, 03:29 PM)GMDino Wrote:


Completely clear.


Try to read the post again.

Still no solution.  What do you want done, and who do you want to do it?  

[*bfine32*]

(03-28-2018, 04:00 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+19&version=NIV




Sooooo.....are we supposed to ignore those two verses for some reason?

I'll admit I'm Christian but I do clip the edges of my beard,

WTS, Leviticus is in the old testament, that's more of a Jewish/hebrew thing than a Christian one. But to the scripture I am against anyone mistreating a foreigner in our land, but if the law of man says they must go, then they must go and from what i understand we do so in a humane fashion.

Bottom line is this thread tries to create a correlation where none exists and is feeble in nature, but as long as you are willing to continue to bury yourself, I have no problem helping out with the dirt.