We need to learn Christian forgiveness and look past Trump's past actions!

[BmorePat87]

(03-29-2018, 11:13 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't know if he was a substance abuser or not, but that's not what he got in trouble for.  He was delivering cocaine.  Maybe that was to feed a substance abuse problem?

Yea, he got into drugs and alcohol abuse because of his PTSD and said the drug charges were a result of this addiction.

[*bfine32*]

(03-29-2018, 11:13 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't know if he was a substance abuser or not, but that's not what he got in trouble for.  He was delivering cocaine.  Maybe that was to feed a substance abuse problem?

Actually he stated he was delivering the drugs to help a friend. 

Now that we are talking about the case and not the faulty premise of the OP, I am torn by this case just as others are. I know there are expedited paths to citizenship connected with Military Service and have read over 100,000 immigrants have received citizenship connected with their service. 

For some reason this guy chose not to take advantage of those paths or was ineligible because he was not honorably discharged from service (apparently came up positive for marijuana on a urinalysis). He states he believed he became a citizen when he enlisted, this I find almost impossible to believe. Every solder has a form known as an Enlisted Records Brief and on that for your citizenship is plainly stated. Also each Battalion size element has a security section designed to issue clearances.

In this case it appears he had no interest in obtaining citizenship until he found out that his crimes could lead to deportation. As to the PTSD: I know many who suffer (hell, one might be typing right now) and I do not know of any who have turned to illegal drugs for treatment. It is real and needs treatment. Hopefully he finds the help he needs in Mexico.   

[Belsnickel]

(03-29-2018, 12:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Now that we are talking about the case and not the faulty premise of the OP, I am torn by this case just as others are. I know there are expedited paths to citizenship connected with Military Service and have read over 100,000 immigrants have received citizenship connected with their service. 

For some reason this guy chose not to take advantage of those paths or was ineligible because he was not honorably discharged from service (apparently came up positive for marijuana on a urinalysis). He states he believed he became a citizen when he enlisted, this I find almost impossible to believe. Every solder has a form known as an Enlisted Records Brief and on that for your citizenship is plainly stated. Also each Battalion size element has a security section designed to issue clearances.

In this case it appears he had no interest in obtaining citizenship until he found out that his crimes could lead to deportation. As to the PTSD: I know many who suffer (hell, one might be typing right now) and I do not know of any who have turned to illegal drugs for treatment. It is real and needs treatment. Hopefully he finds the help he needs in Mexico.   

This is what makes me less sympathetic towards him. He could've become a citizen even before serving. As an LPR from the age of 8, he could have easily done it at any time prior to his problems.

Now, I do know PTSD sufferers that have self-medicated with illegal substances. One person I went to high school with is currently in rehab for opiates after nearly overdosing a couple of weeks ago and he has been in and out since his tours in Iraq. People seek out different coping mechanisms, but they will often migrate to what is most available to them and fits what they see as their needs. He is, unfortunately, refusing to seek help for his PTSD, which why he has been in and out so much.

[BmorePat87]

(03-29-2018, 11:09 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: These are the situations I have a tough time with, but also highlight why a technocracy isn't the best thing. Per the laws and policies in place, the deportation was appropriate. As a bureaucrat, I like that. It's nice and neat in its explanation. But life isn't cut and dry. There is room here to say "our systems failed this person, causing him to seek help in places he shouldn't have because he wasn't getting it where he should've been." Should we not have sympathy to that situation?

I just wish that we could fix the VA system in a way that people like this would be supported. That isn't going to be happening any time soon, though.

I'll respond to this more in the other thread, but Shulkin's latest comments support the idea that no improvements are coming 

[*michaelsean*]

(03-29-2018, 01:11 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'll respond to this more in the other thread, but Shulkin's latest comments support the idea that no improvements are coming 

That's something I don't get and never will.  I don't know anyone who doesn't think the vA needs to be way better.  Seems like this should be a slam dunk.

[Belsnickel]

(03-29-2018, 01:37 PM)michaelsean Wrote: That's something I don't get and never will.  I don't know anyone who doesn't think the vA needs to be way better.  Seems like this should be a slam dunk.

They don't want to pay for it. That is the problem.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-29-2018, 01:40 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: They don't want to pay for it. That is the problem.

I mean I don't ever hear anyone (and I mean citizens) say that.  Neither conservative nor liberal.  Obviously anecdotal but still.  So I'm wondering which constituency is being sucked up to.

[Belsnickel]

(03-29-2018, 01:43 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I mean I don't ever hear anyone (and I mean citizens) say that.  Neither conservative nor liberal.  Obviously anecdotal but still.  So I'm wondering which constituency is being sucked up to.

They don't say they don't want to fund the VA, but that's because that's not what they realize they are saying no to. The tax bill that passed, and other tax cuts before it? Everybody likes money in their pockets and not going to the government, but that means departments like the VA aren't going to be funded.

Out of the 15 cabinet departments, VA actually gets a fair amount. What is left after the DoD gets half of the discretionary spending, of course.

[BmorePat87]

(03-29-2018, 01:37 PM)michaelsean Wrote: That's something I don't get and never will.  I don't know anyone who doesn't think the vA needs to be way better.  Seems like this should be a slam dunk.

Everyone supports the idea of improving the VA. Not everyone supports funding it or addressing all of the issues we're seeing associated with it. That's not a partisan issue either. 


It seems like Shulkin wasn't on board with the privatization approach to improvement, but my opinion is the wellbeing of our veterans shouldn't be a business venture, it should be an obligation of ours. 

[StLucieBengal]

(03-29-2018, 10:56 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This is indicative of our attitude in this country of preferring punishment over treatment and not dealing with veteran issues like PTSD.

You have a man who served this adopted country in uniform and the result of that turned him to substance abuse. He admits to his crimes and seeks to better himself. For that he is deported.

Felons have a difficult time succeeding in life. Why would they even deal with this guy if he got his felony after his military service. All he had to do was not commit a crime Before he got his citizenship.

Hate to constantly repeat this but, it’s his own stupidity that led to his deportation. Yes it’s a shame for him and I certainly hope he gets his life in order in Mexico. Good luck to him.

[BmorePat87]

(03-29-2018, 05:55 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Felons have a difficult time succeeding in life.  Why would they even deal with this guy if he got his felony after his military service.    All he had to do was not commit a crime Before he got his citizenship.  

Hate to constantly repeat this but, it’s his own stupidity that led to his deportation.   Yes it’s a shame for him and I certainly hope he gets his life in order in Mexico.  Good luck to him.

Or we could treat a man's PTSD after he served this country. 

[StLucieBengal]

(03-29-2018, 07:17 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Or we could treat a man's PTSD after he served this country. 

Being a citizen was never a priority for him. Citizenship isn’t charity, yes he served but he also threw that good will aside when he decided to become a felon. Wish him best of luck in his home country.

[BmorePat87]

(03-29-2018, 07:30 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Being a citizen was never a priority for him.  

No doubt trying to fight for this nation to help him become a citizen is evident of this asinine claim of yours. 

[*bfine32*]

(03-30-2018, 09:57 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: No doubt trying to fight for this nation to help him become a citizen is evident of this asinine claim of yours. 

I know a few service members that have no desire to become US citizens. 

[BmorePat87]

(03-30-2018, 11:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I know a few service members that have no desire to become US citizens. 

and did you find this out by talking to them or making assumptions of people you have never met?

[*bfine32*]

(04-02-2018, 03:50 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: and did you find this out by talking to them or making assumptions of people you have never met?

Do I need to define "know"? 

[StLucieBengal]

(04-02-2018, 05:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Do I need to define "know"? 

Да

[BmorePat87]

(04-02-2018, 05:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Do I need to define "know"? 

I'm too lazy to find that hilariously hypocritical post where you criticize people for answering questions with questions. 

Instead I'll just respond with a "lulz, thanks for making my point that Lucie's assumption about someone he doesn't know was asinine". 

[*bfine32*]

(04-02-2018, 06:39 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'm too lazy to find that hilariously hypocritical post where you criticize people for answering questions with questions. 

Instead I'll just respond with a "lulz, thanks for making my point that Lucie's assumption about someone he doesn't know was asinine". 

Simply pointing out that not everyone who serves in the US Military is interested in becoming a US Citizen, In this case I don't find it extremely stupid (asinine) to suggest becoming a citizen was not a priority for this guy, until he realized that he was facing deportation. i would most likely find it asinine if anyone believes this guy didn't know he wasn't a citizen.

But apologies if I misinterpreted your question. 

[StLucieBengal]

(04-02-2018, 06:39 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'm too lazy to find that hilariously hypocritical post where you criticize people for answering questions with questions. 

Instead I'll just respond with a "lulz, thanks for making my point that Lucie's assumption about someone he doesn't know was asinine". 

If it was a priority he wouldn’t be transporting illegal drugs.