"Well Regulated Militia"

[*Nately120*]

(08-06-2019, 11:24 AM)GMDino Wrote: Totally.

That's why being in the country is the best bet.  the cities will be hell first, and for awhile until they run out of supplies and start moving out.  By then populations have dwindled and those us of prepared to hunker down have established defenses.


I'm not a doomsday prepper, but I'd lean that way.

This is the stuff that fascinates me about our societal norms regarding fear and danger.  It's reasonably ok for people to have some doomsday-ish preparations and strategies, but if one of my co-workers says he and the family are driving upstate to visit his parents and I say "Have a safe trip, hope you don't get in a fatal accident on the way" I'm being a morbid alarmist and breaking the rules of societal good taste.

Though maybe the plausibility of the car accident is what makes it anathema to speak of...hmm...I suppose we can subtly say such things with "drive safe" and "have a safe trip" we just have to leave it in the hopeful phrasing.

[*michaelsean*]

(08-06-2019, 11:22 AM)Nately120 Wrote: If I recall, part of the great depression was caused by banks not having enough money to cover everyone taking their savings out at once but people assumed "If I don't take my money out I'll lose it because everyone else will take their money out and the money will be gone" so instead of the perfect yet unreasonable event of no one taking out their money and things being OK-ish everyone went at once because "everyone else was gonna do it."

It's the old Prisoner's Dilemma puzzle...I've got to screw you over because you are going to screw me over even though you are only going to screw me over because you have to screw me over because I'm going to screw you over.

You're thinking of "It's a Wonderful Life".  Quite possibly the most overrated movie of all time.BTW who didn't like the Bedford Falls without George better?

[Au165]

(08-06-2019, 10:46 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You're both speaking like the military is a monolith in which every member thinks the same way.  In such a hypothetical scenario (and hopefully it stays that way) as we're discussing there would be considerable "defection" to the other side within the military as well.  After all, the military are all volunteer citizens.

Right, which is why I pointed to the fact that coups that didn't gain substantial military backing have not been successful in modern times.

[Au165]

Can I just point out that this whole conversation has been far more engaging and positive then I had expected? It's kind of a breath of fresh air that it hasn't led to name calling and bickering.

[GMDino]

(08-06-2019, 11:33 AM)Nately120 Wrote: This is the stuff that fascinates me about our societal norms regarding fear and danger.  It's reasonably ok for people to have some doomsday-ish preparations and strategies, but if one of my co-workers says he and the family are driving upstate to visit his parents and I say "Have a safe trip, hope you don't get in a fatal accident on the way" I'm being a morbid alarmist and breaking the rules of societal good taste.

Though maybe the plausibility of the car accident is what makes it anathema to speak of...hmm...I suppose we can subtly say such things with "drive safe" and "have a safe trip" we just have to leave it in the hopeful phrasing.

We freely ignore things are more likely to happen (car accident) in order to worry about much less likely but BIG things like meteor strike, tyrants, super volcanoes, etc.  It's human nature.

It's why every mass shooting gets blown up in the news.  The likelihood of it happening to you or me is small compared to the likelyhood you will, say, falling down stairs and breaking our necks.  But the shootings are BIG so they get attention.

That doesn't change my mind about trying to limit them.  Accidents are different than murders in my book.

[GMDino]

(08-06-2019, 12:05 PM)Au165 Wrote: Can I just point out that this whole conversation has been far more engaging and positive then I had expected? It's kind of a breath of fresh air that it hasn't led to name calling and bickering.

It's early.  Give it time.  

[*Nately120*]

(08-06-2019, 12:05 PM)Au165 Wrote: Can I just point out that this whole conversation has been far more engaging and positive then I had expected? It's kind of a breath of fresh air that it hasn't led to name calling and bickering.

[*michaelsean*]

(08-06-2019, 12:08 PM)GMDino Wrote: We freely ignore things are more likely to happen (car accident) in order to worry about much less likely but BIG things like meteor strike, tyrants, super volcanoes, etc.  It's human nature.

It's why every mass shooting gets blown up in the news.  The likelihood of it happening to you or me is small compared to the likelyhood you will, say, falling down stairs and breaking our necks.  But the shootings are BIG so they get attention.

That doesn't change my mind about trying to limit them.  Accidents are different than murders in my book.

We don't ignore accidents.  We have air bags, the majority of us wear seat belts, cars are designed to protect the passenger better and better.  

[GMDino]

(08-06-2019, 12:20 PM)michaelsean Wrote: We don't ignore accidents.  We have air bags, the majority of us wear seat belts, cars are designed to protect the passenger better and better.  

Sorry, I meant "ignore" in the context of we don't worry and prepare all the time for them.  We don't think that every time we get in a car we could be in an accident.  We just get in and drive.

There are lots of ways to die each and every day that we just don't think about but we will talk to no end about "doomsday scenarios".

Not that we aren't careful.  Or that we haven't taken sensible steps to help in case of an accident.

Which is what a lot of people would like to see with guns.  Be careful and take sensible steps to prevent accidents.

[Bengalzona]

(08-06-2019, 12:20 PM)michaelsean Wrote: We don't ignore accidents.  We have air bags, the majority of us wear seat belts, cars are designed to protect the passenger better and better.  

Good point.

I'm now in favor of putting child-proof locks on all firearms nationwide.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2019, 12:29 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Good point.

I'm now in favor of putting child-proof locks on all firearms nationwide.

One law I am in favor of is that if you don't have a firearm properly stored and it is used to kill or injure someone, whether intentionally or on accident, that you are held liable.

[*Nately120*]

(08-06-2019, 12:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: One law I am in favor of is that if you don't have a firearm properly stored and it is used to kill or injure someone, whether intentionally or on accident, that you are held liable.

That seems logical, but I'm sure there is a story about a kid grabbing his father's loaded gun off of the coffee table and shooting someone bad.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2019, 01:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: That seems logical, but I'm sure there is a story about a kid grabbing his father's loaded gun off of the coffee table and shooting someone bad.

Someone could still leave a loaded firearm unlocked by wording the law this way, but it means that you better have trust in members of your household knowing how to properly handle a firearm and that they have no ill intentions. It puts the responsibility on the firearm owner, that's all.

[*Nately120*]

(08-06-2019, 01:04 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Someone could still leave a loaded firearm unlocked by wording the law this way, but it means that you better have trust in members of your household knowing how to properly handle a firearm and that they have no ill intentions. It puts the responsibility on the firearm owner, that's all.

Ehh, my house is full of wrenches, candlesticks, ropes, and the occasional lead pipe...I'm in trouble regardless.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-06-2019, 11:06 AM)Nately120 Wrote: My mainest of main takaways from this stuff is always about the irrationality of fear.

In 2017....


~14,500 gun homicides.
~37,000 car accident deaths.
~47,000 suicide deaths.
~55,600 influenza & pneumonia deaths.
~83,500 diabetes deaths.

But which do you think got the most attention and coverage? The fear has been formented. Even though once you take gang-on-gang violence out of the gun homicides it becomes even lower.

Meanwhile we all still drive cars (most of the time 1 person to a car to clog the roads), we don't have any expanded efforts to curb suicides, we don't make flu shots mandatory, and SNAP cards can still be used to buy soda and candy.

People have been flooded by coverage and told how they need to be scared, so they are. Just look at sharks... the US averages ~1 death by shark attack a year. How many people are scared of it, though?

[*Nately120*]

(08-06-2019, 01:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: In 2017....


~14,500 gun homicides.
~37,000 car accident deaths.
~47,000 suicide deaths.
~55,600 influenza & pneumonia deaths.
~83,500 diabetes deaths.

But which do you think got the most attention and coverage? The fear has been formented. Even though once you take gang-on-gang violence out of the gun homicides it becomes even lower.

Meanwhile we all still drive cars (most of the time 1 person to a car to clog the roads), we don't have any expanded efforts to curb suicides, we don't make flu shots mandatory, and SNAP cards can still be used to buy soda and candy.

People have been flooded by coverage and told how they need to be scared, so they are. Just look at sharks... the US averages ~1 death by shark attack a year. How many people are scared of it, though?

How dare you marginalize the work and influence of the great Wilford Brimley?

[*michaelsean*]

(08-06-2019, 01:26 PM)Nately120 Wrote: How dare you marginalize the work and influence of the great Wilford Brimley?

How about his selling of Quaker Oats?  It was pretty much, "Look at me.  Somehow I'm still alive.  Eat your damn oatmeal."

[*Nately120*]

(08-06-2019, 01:30 PM)michaelsean Wrote: How about his selling of Quaker Oats?  It was pretty much, "Look at me.  Somehow I'm still alive.  Eat your damn oatmeal."

My favorite ones were the ones where he threatened you by telling you that sure, you CAN eat cereal, but you're gonna get hungry at about 10:15.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-06-2019, 01:26 PM)Nately120 Wrote: How dare you marginalize the work and influence of the great Wilford Brimley?

I would never discredit his work in fighting diabeetus. Why do you think that it's off the list and diabetes is on the list now? He survived it.

[*michaelsean*]

(08-06-2019, 12:29 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Good point.

I'm now in favor of putting child-proof locks on all firearms nationwide.

Perhaps you didn't read the thread.  A few of us are taking on the US military.  Child-proof locks are at the bottom of our to do list.