White House bans CNN reporter from press conference

[*PhilHos*]

(08-02-2018, 03:52 PM)GMDino Wrote: To be fair FOX was using the tagline "Fair and Balanced" then too.  It was pretty easy for "the left" to point out their spin and, in some cases, outright lies that showed them to less than "Fair and Balanced".  And need I add that old Limbaugh (in his prime) was busy telling his Dittoheads that HE would be the only one that could tell them the "truth" about current events...long before Obama was elected.

I'm not talking about actual criticism. I'm talking about outright dismissal that the left STILL partakes in when it comes to Fox News (ever heard someone call it "Faux News"?) So many were (and are) quick to dismiss the entirety of the news organization simply because it dared/dares to have a conservative bias. 
And unless Rush has changed (haven't listened to him in a looooooooooooooooong time), he never claimed to be a journalist or a newsman, so I don't know why you bring it up unless you're TRYING to double down on your hypocrisy where it's okay to be critical of Fox but heaven forbid you be critical of CNN.

(08-02-2018, 03:52 PM)GMDino Wrote: But, honest question: If Obama's occasional mention that FOX News didn't like him was a "constant attack" how do you rate Trump's attacks on the media?  

Like on a sliding scale of 1-20 if Obama was a 4 or even a 10 how the heck to we rate the current administration's "attack" on the media?  Because Obama was certainly wasn't as aggressive about it as Trump is.

Of course Trump is way worse than Obama was or any leftist has been. The latter only had 1 news station they called "fake news" whereas Trump is calling all the OTHER ones "fake news". That doesn't take away from the fact that the left has been unjustly critical of a news organization prior to Trump's presidency.

[hollodero]

(08-02-2018, 04:05 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm not talking about actual criticism. I'm talking about outright dismissal that the left STILL partakes in when it comes to Fox News (ever heard someone call it "Faux News"?) So many were (and are) quick to dismiss the entirety of the news organization simply because it dared/dares to have a conservative bias. 

I know I involve myself without being asked, but that's again a view I wish to challenge. The conservative bias is not the problem. The fact that they spin stories like Seth Rich is, or that they follow the president on the path to discredit the Mueller probe, or that FOX folks call for jailtime for all kinds of democrats and FBI operatives, or that Sean Hannity promotes a deep state consopiracy theory night by night, or that they in fact (Chris Wallace, whom I actually like, and Shepard Smith aside) are nothing more than a republican propaganda outlet with way too close ties to Trump. That's not hyperbolic to say. That's exactly what they "dare" to be.

(Only a few things about the US are more socking to Europeans than FOX news.)

(08-02-2018, 04:05 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Of course Trump is way worse than Obama was or any leftist has been. The latter only had 1 news station they called "fake news" whereas Trump is calling all the OTHER ones "fake news". That doesn't take away from the fact that the left has been unjustly critical of a news organization prior to Trump's presidency.

I can live with that viewpoint. So disregard my prior answer if you please.

[GMDino]

(08-02-2018, 04:05 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm not talking about actual criticism. I'm talking about outright dismissal that the left STILL partakes in when it comes to Fox News (ever heard someone call it "Faux News"?) So many were (and are) quick to dismiss the entirety of the news organization simply because it dared/dares to have a conservative bias. 

Well the general misconception comes from the way FOX markets itself as a news channel.  Most (the vast majority) of their programming is opinion.  So when Hannity or another talking head spouts out "facts" that are spin/lies/opinion it gets lumped in with the actual small bits of "news" they broadcast.  

(08-02-2018, 04:05 PM)PhilHos Wrote: And unless Rush has changed (haven't listened to him in a looooooooooooooooong time), he never claimed to be a journalist or a newsman, so I don't know why you bring it up unless you're TRYING to double down on your hypocrisy where it's okay to be critical of Fox but heaven forbid you be critical of CNN.

Oh, *I* knew he was just entertainment.  But millions of people believed everything he said was "true" because they agreed with it.  

I brought it up because you said:

Quote:...it was the left (including Obama) that started it with their constant attacks on Fox News.

The "right" accusing the "left" of being wrong/making stuff up started long before Obama.  Limbaugh was just the biggest name I could think of from back in the day.  There were certainly others.

(Edit: Just to add that one side accusing the other of lying has ALWAYS gone on...but I was referring to more current times.)

(08-02-2018, 04:05 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Of course Trump is way worse than Obama was or any leftist has been. The latter only had 1 news station they called "fake news" whereas Trump is calling all the OTHER ones "fake news". That doesn't take away from the fact that the left has been unjustly critical of a news organization prior to Trump's presidency.

Trump attacks ANYONE who disagrees with him...even when he is demonstrably wrong.  He even said things about FOX hosts if he thought they were "unfair" to him.

It's not WHO he attacks...it's HOW he attacks.  And how often.  And how his defenders/supporters eat it up and repeat it.

(Edit: Just to add that one side accusing the other of lying has ALWAYS gone on...but I was referring to more current times.)

[Benton]

(08-02-2018, 01:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yep, you're right; the hate is all on the right. 

Please keep believing that.

Ok. I'll wait while you come up with a list of all the folks on the left calling the free press the "enemy of the people."

(08-02-2018, 03:39 PM)PhilHos Wrote: To be fair, it was the left (including Obama) that started it with their constant attacks on Fox News.

Not the same.

Every elected official has a strained relationship with any news outlet that talks bad about them; or a good relationship with whoever praises them. Obama and Fox didn't get along, mostly due to Fox talking heads saying he was a terrorist, not a legal citizen, etc. That is in no way the same as calling the press the enemy of the people. Or encouraging people not to listen anyone who disagrees with him.

At some point, you've got to stop blaming Obama. In this instance, this is that point. Nothing he did with Fox News equates to what Trump and the right have done here.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-02-2018, 04:12 PM)hollodero Wrote: I know I involve myself without being asked, but that's again a view I wish to challenge. 

Don't apologize for this. This is how the boards work. I will never complain about you butting into a conversation I'm having with someone else.

(08-02-2018, 04:12 PM)hollodero Wrote: The conservative bias is not the problem. The fact that they spin stories like Seth Rich is, or that they follow the president on the path to discredit the Mueller probe, or that FOX folks call for jailtime for all kinds of democrats and FBI operatives, or that Sean Hannity promotes a deep state consopiracy theory night by night, or that they in fact (Chris Wallace, whom I actually like, and Shepard Smith aside) are nothing more than a republican propaganda outlet with way too close ties to Trump. That's not hyperbolic to say. That's exactly what they "dare" to be.

Like I said, I'm not talking about those pointing out falsehoods Fox News may spout. I'm talking about those who complain that EVERY story Fox News puts out is wrong.  And while, sure, some on the network are clearly propagandizing for Trump (like Hannity), Fox News is more than those people. 

To call Fox News "fake news" because of Hannity is no different than Trump calling CNN 'fake news' because of some of the bullshit stories THEY put out (and, yes, there have been some actual fake news that's come out from CNN).

[*PhilHos*]

(08-02-2018, 04:15 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well the general misconception comes from the way FOX markets itself as a news channel.  Most (the vast majority) of their programming is opinion.  So when Hannity or another talking head spouts out "facts" that are spin/lies/opinion it gets lumped in with the actual small bits of "news" they broadcast.  

I understand that, but even so, many on the left were and are to quick to dismiss ANYthing from Fox News because "it's Fox News".

(08-02-2018, 04:15 PM)GMDino Wrote: I brought it up because you said:


The "right" accusing the "left" of being wrong/making stuff up started long before Obama.  Limbaugh was just the biggest name I could think of from back in the day.  There were certainly others.

I'm not talking about accusing the other side of lying. I'm talking about accusing a news organization of being "fake news".

(08-02-2018, 04:15 PM)GMDino Wrote: Trump attacks ANYONE who disagrees with him...even when he is demonstrably wrong.  He even said things about FOX hosts if he thought they were "unfair" to him.

It's not WHO he attacks...it's HOW he attacks.  And how often.  

I do not disagree. Just pointing out it didn't start with him.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-02-2018, 04:24 PM)Benton Wrote: Not the same.

Yes, it is. Many people on the left basically called Fox News "fake news".

(08-02-2018, 04:24 PM)Benton Wrote: Every elected official has a strained relationship with any news outlet that talks bad about them; or a good relationship with whoever praises them. Obama and Fox didn't get along, mostly due to Fox talking heads saying he was a terrorist, not a legal citizen, etc. That is in no way the same as calling the press the enemy of the people. Or encouraging people not to listen anyone who disagrees with him.

So basically saying Fox News isn't really a news organization/station/channel/etc. is NOT discouraging people to from watching/listening? 

(08-02-2018, 04:24 PM)Benton Wrote: At some point, you've got to stop blaming Obama. In this instance, this is that point. Nothing he did with Fox News equates to what Trump and the right have done here.

I'm not blaming Obama. I blamed the "left" which includes Obama. And, sure, Trump is far worse in his treatment of the press than what the left has done to Fox News, but the fact that you're denying they did anything even remotely similar to what Trump has done is, frankly, kind of surprising. 

[Benton]

(08-02-2018, 04:53 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yes, it is. Many people on the left basically called Fox News "fake news".

And the left didn't constantly attack them for that. Democrats didn't — at nearly every level — say stuff didn't happen because of Fox news. We've got Republican state reps in Kentucky refusing to admit they raised taxes, saying it's just fake news. It's absurd. And it isn't even as bad as the problem I was actually referencing, referring to the press as the any of the people.

Quote:So basically saying Fox News isn't really a news organization/station/channel/etc. is NOT discouraging people to from watching/listening? 



I'm not blaming Obama. I blamed the "left" which includes Obama. And, sure, Trump is far worse in his treatment of the press than what the left has done to Fox News, but the fact that you're denying they did anything even remotely similar to what Trump has done is, frankly, kind of surprising. 

I'd call it kind of realistic.

Saying that calling the press the enemy of the people and saying you have a network dedicated to opposing you is not the same. At all.

[hollodero]

(08-02-2018, 04:25 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Like I said, I'm not talking about those pointing out falsehoods Fox News may spout. I'm talking about those who complain that EVERY story Fox News puts out is wrong.  And while, sure, some on the network are clearly propagandizing for Trump (like Hannity), Fox News is more than those people. 

To call Fox News "fake news" because of Hannity is no different than Trump calling CNN 'fake news' because of some of the bullshit stories THEY put out (and, yes, there have been some actual fake news that's come out from CNN).

Quick answer - yes FOX news isn't just Hannity, it is predominantly Hannity-esque though. I mentioned Chris Wallace and Shepard Smith as exceptions. I did watch quite a bit of FOX and couldn't really name a third format, but there might very well be. I know it's not ALL propaganda, but then again, most stuff I'd say certainly is. More neutral fig leafs don't really change that.

Also, I'm again in the position where I don't really want to defend CNN, which has its severe faults. Comparing CNN to FOX, however, still is like comparing a firefly to the sun. Well, say an exceptionally fat firefly. But overall, most stuff CNN tells me is factually correct and does hold up, same goes for MSNBC (I only know those three). That there is also much, in fact way too much opinion and assessment and selective guests (especially on MSNBC) is without doubt. I still see CNN and MSNBC as more sensationalistic than partisan.
But still. I look at it from the outside, with no particular horse in that race to begin with. And from that position (not claiming I'm bias-free) FOX is way, way, way worse than CNN in their spin, their propaganda, their misconceptions, their blatant partisanship - that I say with confidence.

Well, that wasn't so quick after all.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-02-2018, 05:08 PM)Benton Wrote: And the left didn't constantly attack them for that. Democrats didn't — at nearly every level — say stuff didn't happen because of Fox news. We've got Republican state reps in Kentucky refusing to admit they raised taxes, saying it's just fake news. It's absurd. And it isn't even as bad as the problem I was actually referencing, referring to the press as the any of the people.

Sure, the left wasn't as bad, but they still tried to discredit Fox News as a news organization.

[BmorePat87]

(08-02-2018, 03:39 PM)PhilHos Wrote: To be fair, it was the left (including Obama) that started it with their constant attacks on Fox News.

Gotta disagree there. Presidents have had contentious relationships with the media for decades, even centuries, but to suggest Obama had "constant attacks on Fox News" is just dishonest. What we're seeing right now, however, is nothing that we have seen from the modern presidency. 



Also, we've all seen these bumper stickers from the Media Research Center that say "I don't believe the liberal media" much longer than people have been attacking Fox News

[*PhilHos*]

(08-02-2018, 05:11 PM)hollodero Wrote: Quick answer - yes FOX news isn't just Hannity, it is predominantly Hannity-esque though. I mentioned Chris Wallace and Shepard Smith as exceptions. I did watch quite a bit of FOX and couldn't really name a third format, but there might very well be. I know it's not ALL propaganda, but then again, most stuff I'd say certainly is. More neutral fig leafs don't really change that.

Also, I'm again in the position where I don't really want to defend CNN, which has its severe faults. Comparing CNN to FOX, however, still is like comparing a firefly to the sun. Well, say an exceptionally fat firefly. But overall, most stuff CNN tells me is factually correct and does hold up, same goes for MSNBC (I only know those three). That there is also much, in fact way too much opinion and assessment and selective guests (especially on MSNBC) is without doubt. I still see CNN and MSNBC as more sensationalistic than partisan.
But still. I look at it from the outside, with no particular horse in that race to begin with. And from that position (not claiming I'm bias-free) FOX is way, way, way worse than CNN in their spin, their propaganda, their misconceptions, their blatant partisanship - that I say with confidence.

Well, that wasn't so quick after all.

I used to think CNN was the most unbiased news station. They still had a bias, but I felt as if they worked hard at trying to be as objective as possible. Then came the election and it's like they threw that all away to make sure Hillary got elected. Since the election, they've generally been okay, but there's been far too many instances of CNN throwing journalistic integrity out the window in order to bash Trump and just providing fodder for him to claim "fake news." Their probably still the least biased news channel out there, overall, but they've lost some of their integrity.

[hollodero]

(08-02-2018, 05:24 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: What we're seeing right now, however, is nothing that we have seen from the modern presidency. 

Didn't Nixon call the media the enemy? I think I heard something like that. Still not "enemy of the people" or "real enemy of the people compared to Russia" or anything like that, but the mdia being in a president's crosshairs didn't start with Trump or with Obama (and isn't typical for the US alone to begin with). I'd figure.

[hollodero]

(08-02-2018, 05:30 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I used to think CNN was the most unbiased news station. They still had a bias, but I felt as if they worked hard at trying to be as objective as possible. Then came the election and it's like they threw that all away to make sure Hillary got elected. Since the election, they've generally been okay, but there's been far too many instances of CNN throwing journalistic integrity out the window in order to bash Trump and just providing fodder for him to claim "fake news." Their probably still the least biased news channel out there, overall, but they've lost some of their integrity.

Fair enough. As I said, I'm not the biggest fan. I do think it's a bit hyperbolic to claim they threw all objectivity overboard to get Hillary elected. Well, in fact I believe they were rooting for that, which I think has little to do with her or democrats or fundamental partisanship and everything to do with Trump being Trump.
Then again, they covered Trump 24/7. Not to praise him, but he was on screen all the time, and that sure was very valuable to him. I read people from the left blaming CNN for Trump, and maybe there's something to that.
Also, the email scandal sure was talked about in length too. If they tried to help her, they did as lousy a job as Comey. :)

[*PhilHos*]

(08-02-2018, 05:24 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Gotta disagree there. Presidents have had contentious relationships with the media for decades, even centuries, but to suggest Obama had "constant attacks on Fox News" is just dishonest. What we're seeing right now, however, is nothing that we have seen from the modern presidency. 

I didn't say Obama had constant attacks on Fox News. I said the left did. I just said the left included Obama.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-02-2018, 05:33 PM)hollodero Wrote: Didn't Nixon call the media the enemy? I think I heard something like that. Still not "enemy of the people" or "real enemy of the people compared to Russia" or anything like that, but the mdia being in a president's crosshairs didn't start with Trump or with Obama (and isn't typical for the US alone to begin with). I'd figure.

You raise an excellent question. I know Nixon attacked the media and tried to point out their liberal biases, but I don't know if he ever called them the enemy or tried to discredit them because of their biases.

Whether it started with the left and Fox News or Nixon and the mainstream media or even before that only reinforces my point that it started before Trump took office.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-02-2018, 05:39 PM)hollodero Wrote: Fair enough. As I said, I'm not the biggest fan. I do think it's a bit hyperbolic to claim they threw all objectivity overboard to get Hillary elected.

To be fair, I didn't watch them all the time during the campaign so I don't know if they threw ALL objectivity overboard, but certainly when it came to discussing the election, they didn't seem to have any objectivity.

(08-02-2018, 05:39 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, in fact I believe they were rooting for that, which I think has little to do with her or democrats or fundamental partisanship and everything to do with Trump being Trump.

I don't care why they were biased. They were biased and they shouldn't have been. I don't think any NEWS organization should have a bias other than to report facts. And, yes, that goes for Fox News.

(08-02-2018, 05:39 PM)hollodero Wrote: Then again, they covered Trump 24/7. Not to praise him, but he was on screen all the time, and that sure was very valuable to him. I read people from the left blaming CNN for Trump, and maybe there's something to that.

Also, the email scandal sure was talked about in length too. If they tried to help her, they did as lousy a job as Comey. :)

I disagree. It seemed to me when discussing the email scandal it was to do everything they could to defend Hillary.

[hollodero]

(08-02-2018, 05:48 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You raise an excellent question. I know Nixon attacked the media and tried to point out their liberal biases, but I don't know if he ever called them the enemy or tried to discredit them because of their biases.

Whether it started with the left and Fox News or Nixon and the mainstream media or even before that only reinforces my point that it started before Trump took office.

I don't think that's in any doubt. 
The means Trump chooses are new and unique and a bit horrifying (to me), but that point was already made, so.

To give the reply some meaning, I found Nixon's enemy comments. He made it towards his stuff, not in public.
Link


---

(08-02-2018, 06:01 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't care why they were biased. They were biased and they shouldn't have been. I don't think any NEWS organization should have a bias other than to report facts. And, yes, that goes for Fox News.

OK, our perspectives are a bit different, but not severely enough to actually argue the point. The bias accusation sure isn't without merit.

I just feel like adding that it's strange that journalists are held to a higher standard than the president. To clarify, when a president or candidate constantly attacks a news organization in the strongest and most condemning terms, I can't really take issue with that organization going into some form of attack mode too. Who "started" it can be questioned, but in a sense Trump started it by being Trump, meaning by telling lie after lie and than taking issue with CNN correcting the record and calling him out on it. But that's just what I'd assume.

[Benton]

(08-02-2018, 05:41 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I didn't say Obama had constant attacks on Fox News. I said the left did. I just said the left included Obama.

Ok. Where are these attacks? 

Not criticism of their talking heads or pointing out their regular retractions after the fact, but where are the instances of the left calling Fox News an enemy of the people? 

Or is this general 'yeah the left is as bad' sentiment? Because I hear this a lot. And I dislike the left. But I don't see them spewing the same kind of hate as the right. Complaining and making idiotic statements, sure, but not spreading intentional grief at this level.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-02-2018, 06:01 PM)hollodero Wrote: I just feel like adding that it's strange that journalists are held to a higher standard than the president. 

I agree that presidents should be held to high standard, but, IMO, the problem comes from the pervailing mindset of always defending "your" guy and attacking the other side. It's not indicative of either side either. It's standard in American politics that if your guy is accused of or does something bad, you defend him while the smae could happen to the other side and you blast them for all your worth. To be sure, there are a LOT who aren't hypocrites, but unfortunately, they're not the loudest.

(08-02-2018, 06:01 PM)hollodero Wrote: To clarify, when a president or candidate constantly attacks a news organization in the strongest and most condemning terms, I can't really take issue with that organization going into some form of attack mode too. Who "started" it can be questioned, but in a sense Trump started it by being Trump, meaning by telling lie after lie and than taking issue with CNN correcting the record and calling him out on it. But that's just what I'd assume.

I can get that there might be a desire to return fire after being attacked, but unfortunately, that comes with the territory. People don't like getting bad moves and since time began have usually attacked the messenger for delivering bad news. So, no matter how unfair the criticism, I don't think it's a news organizations place to return fire. Instead, continue reporting facts and the truth and let the chips fall where they may.