Why does he refuse to condemn them?

[*PhilHos*]

(10-05-2020, 03:11 PM)Dill Wrote: People do indeed sometimes twist Trump words, as happens to every president.

What is disturbing in the Trump case is not that "some" twist his words, but that--

1. Most of the time, twisting is unnecessary. His damning statements need no extra spin.

I agree which makes me wonder why people need to twist his words at all.

[fredtoast]

(10-05-2020, 04:34 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I agree which makes me wonder why people need to twist his words at all.

I wonder too.

For example last week he told a group of his supporters that "We have superior genes".

Who do you think he meant by "we"?  What group defined by a specific genetic marker was he praising?  And remember that Trump is not from Minnesota.

[*bfine32*]

(10-05-2020, 06:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I wonder too.

For example last week he told a group of his supporters that "We have superior genes".

Who do you think he meant by "we"?  What group defined by a specific genetic marker was he praising?  And remember that Trump is not from Minnesota.

Maybe he meant "you" by "we" cause this is what he said:

"You have good genes. You know that, right? You have good genes. A lot of it is about the genes, isn't it, don't you believe? The racehorse theory. You think we're so different? You have good genes in Minnesota," Trump said to his supporters in a state where many people are of Scandinavian descent.

[hollodero]

(10-05-2020, 06:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Maybe he meant "you" by "we" cause this is what he said:

"You have good genes. You know that, right? You have good genes. A lot of it is about the genes, isn't it, don't you believe? The racehorse theory. You think we're so different? You have good genes in Minnesota," Trump said to his supporters in a state where many people are of Scandinavian descent.

Oh golly, this is still something pretty awful he said right there.

[*bfine32*]

(10-05-2020, 07:06 PM)hollodero Wrote: Oh golly, this is still something pretty awful he said right there.

Don't know how awful it is but it does illustrate why folks want to twist his words.

See, Fred wanted him to say "we" so it could be suggested him was talking about white folk, but he didn't, he was just complimenting a crowd of voters, in a state that he needs to win in the upcoming election. 

[hollodero]

(10-05-2020, 07:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Don't know how awful it is but it does illustrate why folks want to twist his words.

See, Fred wanted him to say "we" so it could be suggested him was talking about white folk, but he didn't, he was just complimenting a crowd of voters, in a state that he needs to win in the upcoming election. 

This is often a problem with me. I deem examining fred's motives of really little importance, first and foremost compared to the actual things Trump says and does. 
"Racehorse theory"? I'd say this is pretty awful and racially loaded terminology. And I too think it is not a coincidence that he talked like that to a (haven't seen it, but I guess it's safe to assume) predominatly white audience in a predominantly white state like Minnesota. I feel I have strong indications that he would not talk about good genes and all that in front of a Harlem crowd.

[Dill]

(10-05-2020, 07:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote:
Don't know how awful it is but it does illustrate why folks want to twist his words.

See, Fred wanted him to say "we" so it could be suggested him was talking about white folk, but he didn't, he was just complimenting a crowd of voters, in a state that he needs to win in the upcoming election. 

Or why people don't want to hear what he says.

Trump was "just complementing a crowd of voters" in a state 94% white by complementing their genes.

Fred, who does know how awful it is, was noting that.

[Dill]

(10-05-2020, 07:40 PM)hollodero Wrote:
This is often a problem with me. I deem examining fred's motives of really little importance, first and foremost compared to the actual things Trump says and does. 
"Racehorse theory"? I'd say this is pretty awful and racially loaded terminology. And I too think it is not a coincidence that he talked like that to a (haven't seen it, but I guess it's safe to assume) predominatly white audience in a predominantly white state like Minnesota. I feel I have strong indications that he would not talk about good genes and all that in front of a Harlem crowd.

lol 

[*bfine32*]

(10-05-2020, 07:44 PM)Dill Wrote: Or why people don't want to hear what he says.

Trump was "just complementing a crowd of voters" in a state 94% white by complementing their genes.

Fred, who does know how awful it is, was noting that.

Quote:Key Findings

In Minnesota, people of Color (those who identify as a race other than White alone, and/or those who are Hispanic or Latin(x)) make up 20% of the total population. Non-Hispanic White Minnesotans represent the remaining 80% of the statewide population.


All race groups have grown recently in MN, but between 2010 and 2018, the state has added five times as many People of Color as non-Hispanic White residents. Populations of Color are distributed unevenly across the state, and are more likely to live in metro areas than rural areas.

Between 2010 and 2018, the fastest growing racial group in Minnesota was the Black or African American population, which grew by 36%, adding more than 96,500 people. Second fastest was the Asian population, which grew by 32%, adding 69,800 people, followed by the Hispanic or Latin(x) population, which grew by 24%, adding 59,000 people. (Black or African American and Asian race groups are that race "alone" and not Hispanic or Latin(x)).

(All data from 2018 Population Estimates, U.S. Census Bureau).

it's actually around 80%.

But don't let Fred's twisting words stop you from White Knighting him. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-05-2020, 07:40 PM)hollodero Wrote: This is often a problem with me. I deem examining fred's motives of really little importance, first and foremost compared to the actual things Trump says and does. 
"Racehorse theory"? I'd say this is pretty awful and racially loaded terminology. And I too think it is not a coincidence that he talked like that to a (haven't seen it, but I guess it's safe to assume) predominatly white audience in a predominantly white state like Minnesota. I feel I have strong indications that he would not talk about good genes and all that in front of a Harlem crowd.

Well when the discussion has gone toward "why twist words" I do find a perfect example of it to be more than "of little importance". 

hell, you're doing the same thing. 

[Dill]

(10-05-2020, 08:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: it's actually around 80%.

But don't let Fred's twisting words stop you from White Knighting him. 

World Population puts it at 83%--apparently the result of a demographic shift since 2010.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/states/minnesota-population

But if your stat was more recent than mine, how does that affect "Fred's words,"

or more importantly Trump's? 

Why do you think my returning emphasis to Trump's behavior is about Fred?

[Dill]

(10-05-2020, 08:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well when the discussion has gone toward "why twist words" I do find a perfect example of it to be more than "of little importance". 

hell, you're doing the same thing. 

Can you provide an example then?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-05-2020, 09:01 PM)Dill Wrote: World Population puts it at 83%--apparently the result of a demographic shift since 2010.

Last I looked 83% is quite a bit less than 94%.  For someone who prides themselves on well sourced arguments you could just take the L bfine just handed you and own it like a man.

[*bfine32*]

(10-05-2020, 09:04 PM)Dill Wrote: Can you provide an example then?

Sure, just look at your last couple of posts. 

[hollodero]

(10-05-2020, 08:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well when the discussion has gone toward "why twist words" I do find a perfect example of it to be more than "of little importance". 

hell, you're doing the same thing. 

I am in no mood to defend myself against the accusation of twisting words by sharing the impression Trump's Minessota words leave on me. Hell.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-05-2020, 09:17 PM)hollodero Wrote: I am in no mood to defend myself against the accusation of twisting words by sharing the impression Trump's Minessota words leave on me. Hell.

Hollo, maybe I can be of some small assistance here.  I don't think it would be overstating things by claiming that most of the crowd at a Trump rally will be Caucasian.  That being the case I don't think the fact that Minnesota is still a largely white state (83, not 94%) is what prompted Trump to make the statement he did.  He's not exactly a deep thinker.  I don't know what's in the man's heart and he certainly doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt in a lot of ways, but I don't think it's crazy to think that Trump's statement had nothing to do with Minnesota being largely white and of those whites, largely of Scandinavian origin.

[*bfine32*]

(10-05-2020, 09:17 PM)hollodero Wrote: I am in no mood to defend myself against the accusation of twisting words by sharing the impression Trump's Minessota words leave on me. Hell.

Be in whatever mood you want, but you've provided a perfect example.

Now if Trump would have really said "we" (the way Fred twisted them) then you'd have a point.

If Trump would have said "94% of you" (using Dill's stats) then you'd have a point

If Trump would have said "Back before all these black folks got here" then you'd have a point

Other that that, you just twisted his words to suggest he was talking about white folk, instead of folk from Minnesota. Admittedly you did this to support how the words "impressed" you. 

[Dill]

(10-05-2020, 09:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Last I looked 83% is quite a bit less than 94%.  For someone who prides themselves on well sourced arguments you could just take the L bfine just handed you and own it like a man.

A deflection from the Trump issue, from someone seeking a vicarious "win." 

Bfine updated an old stat; mine is no longer current. 

Since the contention was over Trump's genetic complement to the state of Minnesota, still over 4/5ths white,

I don't see how 83% "hands me an L," even if Trump knew the more recent stat. 

Then there is the composition of his actual audience, the people standing before him.

[Dill]

(10-05-2020, 09:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure, just look at your last couple of posts. 

LOL another one of these "just look" answers. People who "give 2 shits about the truth" don't argue like that.

So the real answer is "no," you cannot provide an example.

And you are not serious, to boot.

[hollodero]

(10-05-2020, 09:22 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Hollo, maybe I can be of some small assistance here.  I don't think it would be overstating things by claiming that most of the crowd at a Trump rally will be Caucasian.  That being the case I don't think the fact that Minnesota is still a largely white state (83, not 94%) is what prompted Trump to make the statement he did.  He's not exactly a deep thinker.  I don't know what's in the man's heart and he certainly doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt in a lot of ways, but I don't think it's crazy to think that Trump's statement had nothing to do with Minnesota being largely white and of those whites, largely of Scandinavian origin.

Me personally, I feel that talking about horserace theories and good genes has a distinct racial flavor. I didn't say it was crazy to not think that. It also is not crazy to see it the way I see it. One argument of course being the piling up of Trump comments that are flavored in a similar manner.
This also is not about 83% or 94% - any "victory" on that point imho is a quite insignificant one. Minnesota still is perceived as a white state, and I perceive a Trump audience in Minnesota to be visibly white, and I assume that these were significant premises that made Trump go there. But OK, I don't claim to know the undisputable one truth about Trump's beliefs, though I know where my money's at. But disagreement is fine. Accusing me of twisting words, however, is not. I don't need to twist any of Trump's words to find them awful.