(08-23-2015, 02:22 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: That's fine, and by no means am I suggesting that they stop being gay.   That's their deal.    

The i was "born" this way is just tired.

(08-23-2015, 02:38 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Has nothing to do with how they are brought up.   I have not blamed parenting one time or said that parenting mattered.     It's puberty.   And what happens then.   .

(08-23-2015, 02:36 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I don't think they thought they had a choice.   Just as we don't....  But I think we all choose at puberty.    I'm not just talking gays here, talking all of us.   It's a choice we make without knowing we made the choice.

(08-23-2015, 02:39 AM)Nately120 Wrote: How can people claiming homosexuality is genetic be the "tired" option when the argument against it is 2,000 years old and hasn't changed a bit?  If we were having this argument in the 1920's you'd be trying to convince everyone that left-handed people were just taught how to do things backwards and have no neurological differences than right-handed people.

Blah, new perspectives are so tired, can't we just pretend we know as little about something as we did 50 years ago?  That never gets old.

(08-23-2015, 02:38 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Has nothing to do with how they are brought up.   I have not blamed parenting one time or said that parenting mattered.     It's puberty.   And what happens then.   .

(08-23-2015, 02:43 AM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: So it's not a conscious choice, but you still believe there is a choice being made?  I have a cousin that is gay and we all knew he was probably be gay since he was about 5yo.

I know I never wrestled with this "choice", since I can remember I always liked girls.  I suspect you never had to make that choice either whether consciously or unconsciously.

(08-23-2015, 02:44 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I was left handed and I taught myself to use my right.   My expierences when I was young led me there. .... Funny how those expierences when we were young lead to things ....

(08-23-2015, 02:47 AM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I didn't say that you blamed "parenting"  but you do argue Nurture vs Nature a lot.  

(08-23-2015, 02:48 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I def do not think its a conscience choice.   That's why people think they are born one way or another.    I think it matters when we hit puberty and what happens then.    I would love to get a bunch of gays together and breakdown what happened with them at puberty.    I think it would be interesting.  

As far as your cousin being gay at 5.   Not sure that's possible because we are talking what it takes to arouse them.   Yeah he may have been feminine.   But honestly I'm not sure that has much to do with it

(08-23-2015, 02:48 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I def do not think its a conscience choice.   That's why people think they are born one way or another.    I think it matters when we hit puberty and what happens then.    I would love to get a bunch of gays together and breakdown what happened with them at puberty.    I think it would be interesting.  

As far as your cousin being gay at 5.   Not sure that's possible because we are talking what it takes to arouse them.   Yeah he may have been feminine.   But honestly I'm not sure that has much to do with it

(08-20-2015, 07:21 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote:   Now whether it's being shy, lack of success with girls, you are left to be with your guy mates.   With the raging hormones we develop an intimate relationship with them.  

(08-23-2015, 12:21 AM)Benton Wrote: Aaaaand go!

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/253/5023/1034.abstract?sid=a3ac9da2-15b4-4cd7-9a16-1f08a2fdd62f
http://www.pnas.org/content/105/27/9403.short
http://www.pnas.org/content/89/15/7199.abstract
http://www.morganclaypool.com/doi/abs/10.4199/C00064ED1V01Y201208DBR008?journalCode=dbr&
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/261/5119/321.abstract
http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/10443/20141118/homosexuality-genetic-strongest-evidence.htm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/23/homosexuality--choice-born-science_n_2003361.html

Could it be a learned behavior? Probably not. Mating rituals and eating habits can be, but overall what you desire eating and what you desire mating with aren't. Think about it, does a steak taste good because your dad ate steak, or because it ****ing tastes good? Ever know a guy who eats Spam and mayo sandwiches? Does he do it because EVERYBODY is doing it, or because some whacky, ****ed up gene tells him that amount of meat byproduct and egg yuck is delicious?

What you eat = genetic. You body has needs. It will speak to you in that regard. As ****ed up as they may be.

Same with the mating rituals. You being attracted to women is genetic. You buying them a drink or clubbing them over the head or ordering them online is the learned behavior.

But — and listen here, this is the important part — if your homosexuality is determined by the environment, you most likely were gay anyway. You being attracted to dudes isn't related to that slightly feminine uncle or that coach who used to give you a shoulder rub after class. It was because you were already genetically more likely to be attracted to guys. 

(08-24-2015, 02:08 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So when can we start testing Infants and accurately predict their sexual preference?

No matter what the studies say, they almost always refer back to stating that Social and Cultural Pressures play a bigger part in an individual's sexual lifestyle than genes does.

(08-24-2015, 02:08 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So when can we start testing Infants and accurately predict their sexual preference?

No matter what the studies say, they almost always refer back to stating that Social and Cultural Pressures play a bigger part in an individual's sexual lifestyle than genes does.

(08-24-2015, 02:10 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Yes...there are huuuuuuuge social and cultural pressures here in the US for making the "choice" to be gay.  It's a wonder how any of us are straight. 

(08-24-2015, 02:28 PM)Benton Wrote: To the first, heck if I know. I'm a writer, not a doctor, Jim.

But the science is there. And it's not unheard of for there to be physical characteristics for things we can and can't see. For instance, a diagonal crease in your ear lobe is a good indicator of advanced heart disease. It's present in about three quarters of all fatal heart attacks.

Why?

No clue. I'm — as mentioned — not a doctor. But there is a physical trait that develops in the majority of cases.

The point of the studies is, while we haven't mapped out all of our genes and found what makes us homosexuals and heterosexuals, there is some evidence of anatomical differences. And — outside of providing something to hush homophobes  — I hope there aren't too many resources going to it. Because, in the end, it doesn't really matter. If you can look a the size of your baby's head or his genetic makeup or his some other indicator and tell he's gay, it shouldn't make a difference to you. If we could test and you feel the need to, you shouldn't be a parent to begin with. Your kid is your kid, treat them the same no matter what their sexuality is.

To the second, ok. I posted seven links off a quick search saying otherwise, but I guess since you say so.

(08-24-2015, 02:51 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: yes you did post some links, and I looked at 5 of them.

They talk about the size of a person's brain and try to us that as an indicator. In a controlled test environment it might work, but as you add more and more samples to the pool, it becomes less and less accurate.

1 of them even stated that genetics has less to do with someone's sexual preference than the social and cultural side.

A diagonal crease in your ear lobe aka Frank's Sign... happens because of age. So people try to associate it with CAD, since the longer you live the greater your risks.

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=607639

Does that seem like a Logical conclusion to you?

(08-24-2015, 02:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So then tell me what DNA test someone can take of an infant, and it's predictability/accuracy rates?

We are social creatures and we feel a need to fit in/belong to a group. Everyone thinks that they are different from everyone else, I would say that that's probably the point when you are making the choice.

There is just simply no rhyme or reason to it, it happens based on what's going on in a person's life. Some of the most masculine guys can be gay, some who are very feminine are straight, same with women.

(08-24-2015, 03:52 PM)Benton Wrote: So people have a need to be part of a group, so they chose a lifestyle that — by and large — ostracizes them from many groups? When during puberty or after did you make the "straight" choice? Do you recall the day? The event?

As far as the last graf, of course there's a rhyme or reason. It's not like you vae a really stressful day and say 'man, those gay guys across the street have it so easy, I think I'm switching my team.'

(08-24-2015, 02:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So then tell me what DNA test someone can take of an infant, and it's predictability/accuracy rates?

We are social creatures and we feel a need to fit in/belong to a group. Everyone thinks that they are different from everyone else, I would say that that's probably the point when you are making the choice.

There is just simply no rhyme or reason to it, it happens based on what's going on in a person's life. Some of the most masculine guys can be gay, some who are very feminine are straight, same with women.