07-17-2020, 05:37 PM
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LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias
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07-17-2020, 05:40 PM
(07-17-2020, 05:30 PM)samhain Wrote: I don't have links, but I've been seeing articles on FB about Federal Law Enforcement driving around Portland in plain clothes and unmarked vehicles to scout out and detain leftist protesters. The articles allege than many of the detainees are being held at Chicago-Style "black sites" and are not being charged with crimes. I'll wait to see more info and other angles to pass judgement, but if this is the case, it's no bueno. Donut Operator had a YouTube video about this. The tone wasn't as grim and didn't mention "black sites". If someone is detained they should absolutely have been arrested for a crime. I'm not familiar enough with Federal law and how long someone can be detained before seeing a judge or being formally charged.
07-17-2020, 05:53 PM
(07-17-2020, 05:40 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Donut Operator had a YouTube video about this. The tone wasn't as grim and didn't mention "black sites". If someone is detained they should absolutely have been arrested for a crime. I'm not familiar enough with Federal law and how long someone can be detained before seeing a judge or being formally charged. The article I read focused on a guy leaving a rally that was picked up and tossed in an unmarked rental van with some armed gentlemen in the back. The people that detained him did not identify themselves, and pulled the guy's beanie over his eyes to prevent him from seeing where he was taken, which turned out to be a Federal courthouse. They allegedly read him his rights, tried to get him to waive them and have a discussion, then released him when he declined and asked for an attorney. When asked about Pettibone's detention, the Feds denied ever having arrested him and said that there was no record of it happening. I believe that one of the agencies being used is BORTAC. Again, it may all be blown out of proportion, but even if some of these details are real, it's unnerving.
07-17-2020, 06:41 PM
(07-17-2020, 05:53 PM)samhain Wrote: The article I read focused on a guy leaving a rally that was picked up and tossed in an unmarked rental van with some armed gentlemen in the back. The people that detained him did not identify themselves, and pulled the guy's beanie over his eyes to prevent him from seeing where he was taken, which turned out to be a Federal courthouse. They allegedly read him his rights, tried to get him to waive them and have a discussion, then released him when he declined and asked for an attorney. When asked about Pettibone's detention, the Feds denied ever having arrested him and said that there was no record of it happening. I believe that one of the agencies being used is BORTAC. One big problem with that sort of action is that the rest of us cannot tell legitimate police forces from vigilantes in tactical gear. Especially tough if you are the one being arrested and have to decide if the people arresting you are really police.
07-17-2020, 08:08 PM
(07-17-2020, 06:41 PM)Dill Wrote: One big problem with that sort of action is that the rest of us cannot tell legitimate police forces from vigilantes in tactical gear. Also especially tough when you live in a city in which the far left feels entitled to set up "autonomous zones" and murder people with their own security force. I realize that was in Seattle, but trust me, Portland is worse.
07-17-2020, 08:29 PM
(07-17-2020, 08:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Also especially tough when you live in a city in which the far left feels entitled to set up "autonomous zones" and murder people with their own security force. Interesting. You being you I wonder how you feel about living in a country where the federal government rolls up in disguise kidnapping American citizens off of the streets of America with disregard for the states rights?
07-17-2020, 09:09 PM
(07-17-2020, 08:29 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Interesting. You being you I wonder how you feel about living in a country where the federal government rolls up in disguise kidnapping American citizens off of the streets of America with disregard for the states rights? If they're arresting people committing a federal crime, such as vandalizing a federal court house, then I have zero issue with federal law enforcement detaining people as prescribed by policy. I would add that the almost complete abdication of responsibility by local government in both Portland and Seattle allowed for this to happen. if they had let local law enforcement actually do their job properly in the first place things almost certainly wouldn't have reached this pitch.
07-18-2020, 04:21 AM
(07-17-2020, 08:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Also especially tough when you live in a city in which the far left feels entitled to set up "autonomous zones" and murder people with their own security force. Divert to Seattle? A far left "security force" killed someone there? Back to Portland, where it is "worse"? More people killed by FLSF*? It would be easier to trust you if you could provide some background information. As far as I can tell, "autonomous zones" in Portland are dismantled about as fast as they are put up. I have heard of a killing in Seattle, but haven't heard that connected to any FLSF. Then maybe back to the question Nati and I have raised. To double check, you are ok with federal law enforcement with no identifying insignia on their uniforms grabbing people off the street, if "as prescribed by policy"? *Far Left Security Forces.
07-18-2020, 09:47 AM
(07-17-2020, 08:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Also especially tough when you live in a city in which the far left feels entitled to set up "autonomous zones" and murder people with their own security force. (07-17-2020, 09:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: If they're arresting people committing a federal crime, such as vandalizing a federal court house, then I have zero issue with federal law enforcement detaining people as prescribed by policy. I would add that the almost complete abdication of responsibility by local government in both Portland and Seattle allowed for this to happen. if they had let local law enforcement actually do their job properly in the first place things almost certainly wouldn't have reached this pitch. I get the "LAW AND ORDER" crowd would support this but I'm having a hard time with unmarked groups in unmarked vehicle taking people from the street. Very Gestapo to me. Using Seattle to defend it doesn't make it any better. Two wrongs don't make a right. And all that said this group is just doing whatever they want wherever and whenever they want. I don't think that's the America most police officer or soldiers signed up to protect. https://www.opb.org/news/article/federal-law-enforcement-unmarked-vehicles-portland-protesters/#.XxD9y_CwH4w.twitter Quote:Federal Law Enforcement Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab Protesters Off Portland StreetsIn a country where people lose their minds over any proposed change to anything involving their "right to bear arms" I find it amusing and disturbing that the same group is "totally fine" with a sudden attack on the other rights because of politics. Again, two wrongs don't make a right. Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
07-18-2020, 09:51 AM
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
07-18-2020, 09:52 AM
This author of this tweet says the protestor (on a public street) "throws" something at the officers when it literally just rolls it waway and goes back to peacefully protesting...before being shot in the face (probably).
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
07-18-2020, 02:13 PM
(07-18-2020, 10:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Wow. The people who claim to be the biggest supporters of "Constitutional rights" are fine with unregulated law enforcement. They will be all for it if liberals start arming themselves. Reagan had no problem with stricter gun laws when the Black Panthers gained numbers and influence in their communities while encouraging blacks to arm themselves. As expected, the NRA had no problem with his actions. I've been saying for a long time that liberals need to get more comfortable with the idea of owning more guns. The fringe right is armed to the teeth and full of dork gamers that believe they will be able to subjugate libs when the Boogaloo starts because of their proficiency in Call of Duty and Roblox.
07-18-2020, 02:20 PM
(07-18-2020, 02:13 PM)samhain Wrote: They will be all for it if liberals start arming themselves. Reagan had no problem with stricter gun laws when the Black Panthers gained numbers and influence in their communities while encouraging blacks to arm themselves. As expected, the NRA had no problem with his actions. They are trying: https://socialistra.org/
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
07-18-2020, 02:27 PM
(07-18-2020, 02:20 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: They are trying: https://socialistra.org/ I've seen groups like this, and most seemed to be heavily comprised of African Americans. It's almost as if black folks don't have the same trust in the gubmint as white liberals that have probably never owned a gun or been in a position to need one. This is by far the one issue where I just can't get in line with the left mentality. I wish they'd give up on championing gun control altogether. It would remove a major boogeyman used to scare rural voters.
07-18-2020, 02:35 PM
For some reason hippies protesting concerns me less than an unidentified militarized federal police force kidnapping people and using excessive force on American citizens exercising their right to protest.
07-18-2020, 02:42 PM
(07-18-2020, 02:35 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: For some reason hippies protesting concerns me less than an unidentified militarized federal police force kidnapping people and using excessive force on American citizens exercising their right to protest. I think if they're breaking the law or not in line with my political beliefs, it's totally acceptable. Maybe there's a local soccer stadium or football field we could herd them into for mass-execution. I mean, these are bad people, so the law can be suspended just this one time to eliminate the existential threat, right? The gubmint and fed law enforcement would never do it to anyone else after that, I'm positive. Just this one time, and we make them pinky swear. It will never happen to us, dude. Also, if you don't agree, you hate Murica and freedom.
07-18-2020, 02:44 PM
(07-18-2020, 02:27 PM)samhain Wrote: This is by far the one issue where I just can't get in line with the left mentality. I wish they'd give up on championing gun control altogether. It would remove a major boogeyman used to scare rural voters. The NRA is the one creating a boogey man. We desperately need gun licensing and registration to help keep guns out of the hands of criminals and to link guns used in crimes to owners. It is a law that would save a lot of lives. A majority of Americans support this when they understand that background checks are a joke as long as any individual can sell a gun to any other individual without a background check. But the NRA has convinced them that gun licensing and registration is nothing but a tool for for gun confiscation. In other words they want to protect the criminals who want to break the law by keeping guns if they ever are outlawd. But the truth is that only a small minority of the public supports making all guns illegal. Also, remember how the NRA subjects freaked out and starting stocking up on ammunition and firearms when Obama mbecame President because LePierre convinced all of them that Obama was "COMING FOR YOUR GUNS!!!!". The firearms manufacturers laughed all the way to the bank over that.
07-18-2020, 04:14 PM
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
07-18-2020, 06:27 PM
(07-18-2020, 02:27 PM)samhain Wrote: I've seen groups like this, and most seemed to be heavily comprised of African Americans. It's almost as if black folks don't have the same trust in the gubmint as white liberals that have probably never owned a gun or been in a position to need one. Well, the SRA is pretty white. Don't get me wrong, it's got a good rate of BIPOCs, but think about the Bernie Bros. This is their group. (07-18-2020, 02:27 PM)samhain Wrote: This is by far the one issue where I just can't get in line with the left mentality. I wish they'd give up on championing gun control altogether. It would remove a major boogeyman used to scare rural voters. Interestingly enough, I have brought this up before in here that gun control is really more of a conservative position than it is a liberal one. Gun control has routinely been used to oppress marginalized groups in this country and around the world. This isn't just about race or religion, either, it's also about socioeconomic status. Our current gun control framework is pretty much that you can get just about anything if you can afford it and the necessary paperwork. This means that the wealthier you are, the more likely you are to be able to obtain a transferable automatic (not semi, but full) firearm. Because of the cutoff date of 1986 for full auto weapons on the civilian market, prices went prohibitively high and continue to climb due to limited availability. They can also afford suppressors and the NFA stamps required for them and all the AOWs. Essentially, gun control in this country creates a system of inequity. If you limit these firearms to only law enforcement or military possession, you still create the inequity because (and here is where my more leftist tendencies kick in) the military and police are tools of the bourgeoisie. Because of our plutocratic society, the authorities should not be trusted to be the only ones with these weapons in hand. Last, but certainly not least, are the dilemmas in political science. So, there is the original and modern dilemma. The original dilemma is individual freedoms versus security/order. This is what creates the difference between classical liberalism and conservatism. The modern dilemma is the choice between individual liberty and equity/equality (different things, but both fall into this). This complicated things a bit, but classical liberals became libertarians, which stand for liberty over both security and equity. Conservatives prefer liberty over equity, but will sacrifice liberty for security. Modern liberals will sacrifice liberty for equality, but are not as willing to sacrifice it for security, and communitarians just give it up for both security and equity. I know that probably got confusing, so here is a graphic I made last time. So when you look at these things through this lens, it becomes a bit baffling as to why a liberal party would support gun control because that is sacrificing individual liberty for order/security. But, I've had this conservation with politicos in the Democratic party and, well, as of yet no one has been able to explain this to me. I am guessing that the reality behind it is that because we have a two party system, we have big tent parties and the GOP has libertarianish elements pulling them their direction and the Democrats have some communitarist folks over there. (07-18-2020, 02:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The NRA is the one creating a boogey man. Yes and no. The NRA sucks, don't get me wrong, but elected officials have made it clear that the boogeyman is real with what has passed in some states. There is a reason SSF has his viewpoints and I tell him it's because California has ruined him.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
07-18-2020, 07:18 PM
(07-18-2020, 02:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The NRA is the one creating a boogey man. I mostly agree. I bought my first Glock about 3 years ago. I was mildly surprised with the ease of the buying process. The guys there could probably tell that I wasn't a longtime gun enthusiast or collector. I told them I wanted something easy for home defense, and they basically told me to either get a shotgun or a Glock. They were pretty specific about what weapon would have the better likelihood of killing someone if the situation came down to that. And yeah, background checks are pretty laughable. They asked a few questions and got some personal info, but it went by fast enough that I asked them if that was all they needed from me, lol. |
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