09-23-2020, 02:28 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No, it's not. But, he still didn't commit an impeachable offense.
He was impeached.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
A SCOTUS Opening
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09-23-2020, 02:28 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No, it's not. But, he still didn't commit an impeachable offense. He was impeached. Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
09-23-2020, 02:29 PM
(09-23-2020, 12:44 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I disagree. The impeachment was about getting rid of Trump and not because he did "bad things" but because he was Trump and Democrats hate that he was elected. You're not incorrect. It's also not incorrect that while the motivations of some of them were wrong (doing it because they didn't like him), you can't exclude that some did it for the right reason (that Trump had done things worthy of removal from office). So why keep the baby AND the bath water?
09-23-2020, 02:32 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No, it's not. But, he still didn't commit an impeachable offense. He was acquitted along party line after being impeached. That's a far cry from being innocent.
09-23-2020, 02:35 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: That's a bullshit reason. No, he was no career politician, but that doesn't mean he wasn't fit for the job. There was no reason to talk IMPEACHMENT on the day he was elected president. Did you feel the same when Republicans vowed to make Obama fail and be a 1 term President on the first day of his term? They didn't even need to have an impeachable offense legit or not. ….. Or does that tug on the hypocritical values so popular in today's America? So rewarding for Republicans in congress.... No need to answer. It was a rhetorical question. Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous
09-23-2020, 02:37 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:27 PM)hollodero Wrote: That seems like a matter of perspective, including with constitutional scholars. It it's impeachable is a political question, not one that can objectively be answered so easily.I know I'm conservatively-biased but I'm no Trump supporter. I don't hate the guy and I'll probably vote for him over Biden, but I recognize much of his negatives. That said, I tried to look at from as unbiased a position as I could and I just didn't see enough to say Trump deserved impeachment. Much of what was listed as reasons for impeachment, the evidence for was murky and not solid enough. (09-23-2020, 02:27 PM)hollodero Wrote: You did give a "he was impeached because the dems just hate the guy" explanation - which is probably quite true, for sure, but does in no way refute that he did something quite wrong regarding this whole Ukraine situation. No it doesn't refute anything regarding the Ukraine situation, but them calling for his impeachment before he's even inaugurated kinda hurts their arguments, does it not? As to the rest of your post, no offense, hollodero, I just don't feel like rehashing the whole impeachment thing right now. My memory is too fuzzy on the details and I don't have the time to research all the finer points (I'm posting while at work).
09-23-2020, 02:39 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: That's a bullshit reason. No, he was no career politician, but that doesn't mean he wasn't fit for the job. There was no reason to talk IMPEACHMENT on the day he was elected president. I don't think so. Even the Republicans said it. Fox News. Lindsay Graham. Jeb Bush. Mitt Romney. Ted Cruz. You can google videos of all of them talking about how Trump for who he is. A con artist. A bigot. A jackass. A pathological Liar. They all saw it. It's just that once he was nominated and then elected, Republicans could no longer admit it, because their campaigns and money were now invested with Trump's. Fox News could no longer criticize him because their entire fan base was made up of Trump voters etc. You can claim that even with all his lying, conning, bigotry, brashness, rudeness, impulsiveness, thin skin and ill temperament, there was no way for us to KNOW he'd be a bad president back in 2016. But we know now.
09-23-2020, 02:40 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:35 PM)jj22 Wrote: Did you feel the same when Republicans vowed to make Obama fail and be a 1 term President on the first day of his term? They didn't even need to have an impeachable offense legit or not. Don't you honestly believe the Dems felt the exact same way on Trumps 1st day ? May not have said it in front of the cameras but dam sure were plotting the exact same thing in the background.
09-23-2020, 02:42 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:35 PM)jj22 Wrote: Did you feel the same when Republicans vowed to make Obama fail and be a 1 term President on the first day of his term? They didn't even need to have an impeachable offense legit or not. Quote:The Facts The interview occurred after Obama had been in office for 2 years You consider that akin to leveling charges of impeachment? No need to answer it was a rhetorical question
09-23-2020, 02:43 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:28 PM)GMDino Wrote: He was impeached. Yes, he was. Doesn't mean it was for legitimate reasons.
09-23-2020, 02:44 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:40 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Don't you honestly believe the Dems felt the exact same way on Trumps 1st day ? If they did, Lord knows they couldn't say it so openly as McConnell and the Republicans did when Obama was elected with this American electorate. Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous
09-23-2020, 02:46 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:29 PM)Benton Wrote: You're not incorrect. First, why word it as "not incorrect"? More importantly, I don't doubt there were some that legitimately thought they were doing it for the right reasons. The problem was the constant cry for impeachment for so long kinda ruins it for those who were trying to do the right thing.
09-23-2020, 02:46 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The interview occurred after Obama had been in office for 2 years So no, you had no issue with Republicans plans to make Obama a 1 term President admitted to late, but implemented day 1 of his term. I figured. Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous
09-23-2020, 02:47 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:32 PM)Benton Wrote: He was acquitted along party line after being impeached. That's a far cry from being innocent. Didn't say he was innocent.
09-23-2020, 02:48 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:35 PM)jj22 Wrote: Did you feel the same when Republicans vowed to make Obama fail and be a 1 term President on the first day of his term? They didn't even need to have an impeachable offense legit or not. There's a difference from saying you will do what you can to see someone not be re-elected vs doing what you can to remove him from office.
09-23-2020, 02:50 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:44 PM)jj22 Wrote: If they did, Lord knows they couldn't say it so openly as McConnell and the Republicans did when Obama was elected with this American electorate. Why couldn't they say it ? Everybody already knows that the intention of either party is to get the other out as quickly as possible..
09-23-2020, 02:51 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:39 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't think so. Even the Republicans said it. Fox News. Lindsay Graham. Jeb Bush. Mitt Romney. Ted Cruz. You can google videos of all of them talking about how Trump for who he is. A con artist. A bigot. A jackass. A pathological Liar. They all saw it. So as long as someone's a liar, it's ok to demand his removal from office? **** the will of the voters? We're talking about people calling for his removal BEFORE HE WAS EVEN SWORN IN. Yeah, the guy was a jerk and a conman. He still legally was elected president. It sucks, sure, but you can't just call for him to be removed simply because you don't like the guy or because you think he's a bad guy.
09-23-2020, 02:52 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:50 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Why couldn't they say it ? The backlash from American voters would have been deafening. They don't play when it comes to Dems. Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous
09-23-2020, 02:52 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:37 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I know I'm conservatively-biased but I'm no Trump supporter. I don't hate the guy and I'll probably vote for him over Biden, but I recognize much of his negatives. Fair enough. (09-23-2020, 02:37 PM)PhilHos Wrote: That said, I tried to look at from as unbiased a position as I could and I just didn't see enough to say Trump deserved impeachment. Much of what was listed as reasons for impeachment, the evidence for was murky and not solid enough. Sure it does. I have to say though that I do not know who "them" is. Single Dems called for impeachment quite early on (and should not have done so, imho), but the party establishment as a whole did not. To me, it wasn't that much "their case" as "a case against Trump" and no one but the Dems could have made it. Their motives, imho, are not that interesting or essential to begin with. To me the evidence was as clear cut as it gets, but hey that is a matter of perspective and I never intended to rehash those things in detail. I just feel that merely pointing to Dems hating the guy is a bit thin for a stance. (01-27-1975, 05:57 PM)PhilHos Wrote: As to the rest of your post, no offense, hollodero, I just don't feel like rehashing the whole impeachment thing right now. My memory is too fuzzy on the details and I don't have the time to research all the finer points (I'm posting while at work). No offense taken, I still felt like mentioning those things anyway :) Just adding this, of all the possible Trump crimes I listed only one referred to the impeachment. To add a second one still, I feel trying to intimidate a witness while testifying to congress is bordering criminality too. But sure, I do thoroughly dislike the guy and make no secret about that, so my views on all that might appear tainted.
09-23-2020, 02:54 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:51 PM)PhilHos Wrote: We're talking about people calling for his removal BEFORE HE WAS EVEN SWORN IN. Yeah, the guy was a jerk and a conman. He still legally was elected president. It sucks, sure, but you can't just call for him to be removed simply because you don't like the guy or because you think he's a bad guy. I agree people voted for him (although the impeachment was legit as you can't keep trying to get foreign countries to help you win elections). He was elected because he represents the character of those who vote for him... That's why there is no hope for the Government. The issue isn't our officials, it's the character of those who vote for these kind of people, and the character traits they want in charge of this country. Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous
09-23-2020, 02:56 PM
(09-23-2020, 02:51 PM)PhilHos Wrote: So as long as someone's a liar, it's ok to demand his removal from office? **** the will of the voters? I mean, the will of the voters was never a topic at hand, because the will of the voters would have made Hillary president. Now, the will of some voters in certain areas would have been counteracted if he were impeached, but that's not really...anything. That's just politics. Every decision in politics has people on both sides of it. And wanting to remove someone and actually attempting to remove them are different things. People wanted Trump removed because of his obvious lack of ability to do the job, but they didn't impeach him until he demonstrated that lack of ability. You know what I mean? |
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