Intermediate step to beginning of life uncovered

[*michaelsean*]

(06-16-2015, 01:57 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Let me try to explain it using connect the dots as an example.   Below you have six dots, 2 parallel lines of 3 dots each.

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Let's say you choose (free will) to connect the first dot of each parallel line to each other . . .
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Let's say at the time the two points are connected is the future and God knows your choice.   Because God has seen the future, when you make your choice you won't/can't choose any other option because that would alter the future which God knows happens.  The point you choose is predetermined to God because he knows what you're going to choose. You don't have knowledge of the future so to you your choice is free will.

Now let's back up to Creation. You aren't born, yet. You have yet to have the chance to exercise your free will to choose which two dots you will connect.  Before you choose the first dot, God already knows which dot you picked second eliminating other possibilities before you make your first choice.

God also knows which dot you will choose as your first dot before you're born.  All the dots God knows you didn't pick first are eliminated as possibilities.   When it is time for you to choose (free will) you can't/won't pick any dot but the specific dot God knows you will pick first.

God knows how all the dots of you life are connected from the first dot to the last.  The last dot is Heaven or Hell. Before you're born, God knows if you will go to Heaven or Hell.  So every time you exercise free will to make a choice it brings you one dot closer to the same, predetermined outcome.

Is that free will?

I understand what you are saying, but you are attributing the predestination to knowledge.  What if God can know, but chooses not to?  Are you still predestined?  (Predestined may not be the right word as that implies an active participation.)  If I have a vision of tomorrow and see you will go to McDonalds have I robbed you of your free will by learning that?  It's going to happen whether I know it or not.

But we are arguing the Christian God here, and I don't find that to be accurate either.  I don't believe in hell and I don't think Heaven is like we hear described.  I think God may just be the sum total of us all, but I like to think there is still a central self-aware aspect of God, and we just exist in different planes in different forms.  We may come here many times to experience many different things.  The reason I mention this is so people know the "free will" thing is a philosophical argument for me, and not necessarily based on how I think things are.