Mass shootings

[hollodero]

(03-06-2018, 02:15 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Which falls back on the argument about "shall not be infringed" being absolute or is there a grey area.  The argument against semi-automatic rifles that is frequently cited is that they are "weapons of war".  Another argument is that the 2nd was written when muskets were the infantryman's weapon, so everyone can have all the muskets they want.

I made that originalist argument once, albeit more for satirical reasons. But I'd say everything is a grey area, for constitutions can change and adapt to different times and in general probably need to. Taking an amendment as the word of god isn't a sensible approach, independent from the gun question, but very much also with the gun question. Forefathers didn't imagine AK[number]'s and all that, so I guess in the sum of all things said by now that in principle is a fair point to make.

(03-06-2018, 02:15 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Except the deaths aren't increasing, it's the exact opposite.  As I said earlier, gun ownership has gone up while violent crime has decreased.

I sure consider that to be a valid point. But then again, it's still a relative comparison. To simplify what I mean, just because things were even grimmer in the past doesn't mean the current situation isn't still grim and doesn't call for further improvement. That one might see it that way stems from another relative comparison, which is of course comparing the US to other western states. Gun homicides in Europe are between 1 and 2 per million people and per anno, in the US it's around 30. These numbers vary depending on the source, but the general sense is the same still.

And I do know this argumentation has its limits, but then again we're not that vastly different from the US either. We too have our tensions and conflicts, with immigration and races/ethnicities and refugees and Nazi groups and all that, the two halfs of Belgium hate each other, the Basks want independence, Russian propaganda stirs the pot everywhere etc. etc., still we don't shoot each other nearly as much. It most definitely would be wrong to simply claim that's because of gun control laws, but I think it's also irrational to claim it has nothing to do with that either.

(03-06-2018, 02:15 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Every semi-automatic has a "rate of fire" far in excess of your line in the sand.  Maximum rate of fire is not going to be achieved by anyone actually firing the weapon.  As for bump stocks, they're a stupid range toy.  They crush your accuracy.  You can also achieve the same thing with a shoelace or belt loop.

Yeah I accept that line isn't sustainable, I'm off that one already.
As for the video.... cool, I guess. A belt loop. Amazing. I don't really know what to say to that though. I guess you should totally ban belts.
My country still has the draft... but if a wuss like me swears his conscience doesn't allow him to engage with guns, one can do civil service instead. Simply participating in that conversation might violate my pledge by now :)

(03-06-2018, 02:15 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I mention both as they frequently go hand in hand for anti-gun activists.  The problem with a license is that you're requiring an extra step to exercise a constitutional right.  You get the same "against" argument in this regard with voter ID laws.  Proponents state that proving your identity when you vote is common sense.  Opponents state this targets poor people, disproportionately minorities, as it requires an extra step (or barrier based on your position) to exercising a constitutional right.

Oh I am absolutely for voter ID laws also, in fact I find it astonishing you do not have them in place. I said so on this board and got my earful :)  As far as I can see, the "left" is against ID laws and for gun licences, the "right" is for ID laws and against gun licences, both stances aren't too consistent when argued like you argue them. I have no problem with such hurdles, greater good for everyone and all that. Getting a licence wouldn't unconscionably hurt you and it could help keeping guns out of the hands of incapable people. At least in some cases.