Hoda Muthana

[Dill]

(02-26-2019, 11:26 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A truly progressive view.  I'll again offer second alternative.  She broke the law in Syria, let her be tried there as any US citizen would be tried in another country in which they broke the law.  These ISIS brides were often, if not always, complicit in the forced marriage and rape of enslaved women such as the Kurds or Yazidi.  She can stay in Syria until she is properly tried. 
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 We do put ourselves in a bit of a legal bind by stating the Assad regime is not legitimate.  I would state that Us citizens being tried under regimes we consider illegitimate is not without precedent.  I see no reason why this circumstance would be special.

(02-26-2019, 11:44 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Should she be tried in Syria for her crimes before we even discuss whether she should be returned to the US?  Also, she isn't a kid who fell under the thrall of the local gang or some other local, daily, influence.  She had to actively seek them out online (I don't know about you but I haven't encountered any Isis related sites while using the internets), then purchase a plane ticket to Turkey and then be smuggled into Syria.  This is a rather large cut above any other example of this sort.

As for compassion, sure, once she truly pays for her monstrous deeds.  As I stated earlier, there are reams of testimony from enslaved, raped, women about how the Isis brides ran herd on them and controlled them for the men.  I'm going to reserve most of my compassion for the poor women who were enslaved and raped en masse.  I'll let you know if I have any left over for someone who joined willingly and went to great pains to do so.

(02-26-2019, 12:11 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: If she committed crimes in Syria, then there should be something occurring in the Syrian legal system. However, that does still require that we get the question of her citizenship sorted out. We do have an interest in the proceedings if she is a USC being put through their legal system. If she is a USC, it is our duty to ensure her rights are not being violated by Syria, either.

Under Obama, the US policy goal for Syria was to get rid of Assad. The reason for that was because Assad's forces regularly gassed and shot women and children. Women and children--all manner of civilians--have disappeared without trial in his prisons, where rape, torture and murder are regular occurrences. This is the fate of those who oppose or have opposed his regime.

The links below provide a better idea of who would be "trying" Muthana in Syria, and how--and why this circumstance would be "special."

AI estimates up to 13,000 civilians executed in Syrian military prison over four years
Amnesty International has estimated that 50 civilians per week were unlawfully executed at a military prison between 2011 and 2015. The rights group has called on the regime to be brought before the ICC.
https://www.dw.com/en/ai-estimates-up-to-13000-civilians-executed-in-syrian-military-prison-over-four-years/a-37435537

UN Experts: Widespread Abuses and Killings of Detainees in Syria
https://ijrcenter.org/2016/02/17/un-experts-widespread-abuses-and-killings-of-detainees-in-syria/

While the majority of those detained are men, there are documented cases of women and children who have perished in the detention centers while in the custody of the State. Id.at para. 22. There are also reports of rape and other sexual violence against detainees in government controlled detention centers. Id. at para. 32.

The report found that a majority of the deaths recorded in the report occurred in detention centers controlled by Syrian intelligence services and that the centers under the control of Military Security had the highest number of documented deaths. See id. at paras. 36-37. Although the army units and security agencies are responsible for the detentions, torture, and deaths, military hospitals and judiciary institutions also play a role by failing to investigate, prevent, or provide information on deaths. See id. at para. 40. The COI concluded that the State violates the right to life by failing to investigate the deaths of individuals in its custody. Id. at para. 46.

Trump has. of course, changed US policy, in 2017 stating it was up to the Syrian people to decide their leader. But the Syrian regime has not changed. Turing Muthana over to the Syrian government would likely mean her disappearance under very unpleasant circumstances. And it would not be ok because "ISIS did it too!"