(04-28-2021, 08:55 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Apparently the Eagles have had several talks with Marshall and are super interested. And ofc they pick one spot ahead of us in the 2nd...

And that is fine. As I said, we need to come out with one of the two in my mind and I actually think Bates may be the better option. If we don't then I think round 2 value may take receiver off the board in favor of pass rusher and we end up looking for something to salvage WR in rd 3. I would have felt much better if we had gotten one veteran in FA. I get nervous starting a rookie mid-rounder potentially 60-70% of snaps this year. 

We've seen it in the past. A player gets to 2-3 spots from where the Bengals pick and they sit on their hands and magically the guy gets taken a spot ahead of them.

IF Sewell is the pick at 5 and Marshall is on the board at 36, you pay the damn 4th rounder or 5th rounder to move up 2 spots.

Scratch Peter King off Team Sewell’s list...

One more day until the NFL Draft. @peter_king joined me to talk Joe Burrow and what GMs around the league are telling him about the Bengals number 5 pick and Ja’Marr Chase #Bengals #NFLDraft https://t.co/GmyMJ7fJO7 pic.twitter.com/VliAK8aO53

— Lindsay Patterson (@LndsPatterson) April 28, 2021

(04-28-2021, 07:56 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Scratch Peter King off Team Sewell’s list...

One more day until the NFL Draft. @peter_king joined me to talk Joe Burrow and what GMs around the league are telling him about the Bengals number 5 pick and Ja’Marr Chase #Bengals #NFLDraft https://t.co/GmyMJ7fJO7 pic.twitter.com/VliAK8aO53

— Lindsay Patterson (@LndsPatterson) April 28, 2021

I haven't seen any of the top draft guys or the former GMs that I listen to on Sirius back the Chase pick.  Every one of them thinks it's priority #1 to get a line in front of Burrow.  I think 90% of them know that despite that, the Bengals are going to take Chase and pass on a top 5 player that just happens to play OT.

(04-28-2021, 09:56 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I haven't seen any of the top draft guys or the former GMs that I listen to on Sirius back the Chase pick.  Every one of them thinks it's priority #1 to get a line in front of Burrow.  I think 90% of them know that despite that, the Bengals are going to take Chase and pass on a top 5 player that just happens to play OT.

Listen to what King says in that clip about what he’s hearing from GM’s around the league. It’s pretty much the exact argument the team Chase people have been making.

The biggest variable fueling the Chase vs Sewell war is Cincy's FO's recent track record. Because plan Chase includes faith in the FO landing the right OL later and best case scenarios out of the OL they put in place, it offends team Sewell people. Team Sewell members are in denial that the draw isn't just the thirst for a star OL or seeing more than what's actually there on tape...we think we have the next Munoz.

I believe the best plan may be Chase and the right OL later, but the FO hasn't given me a case to present anyone that they're the ones to carry out that plan.

The problem with taking Chase is that we don't need just one O-Lineman, we need to totally rebuild the offensive line. So even if we get lucky and hit on an O-lineman in round 2 that won't be enough to fix this. You can also always count on multiple injuries to the line during the year, do we have any depth at all?

(04-28-2021, 11:24 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: The problem with taking Chase is that we don't need just one O-Lineman, we need to totally rebuild the offensive line.  So even if we get lucky and hit on an O-lineman in round 2 that won't be enough to fix this.  You can also always count on multiple injuries to the line during the year, do we have any depth at all?

As a Sewell guy the logic is there only because the class is there.  They have to check their need on the DL sadly, but it's realistic you end up with two players:

Package 1: A future tackle that can start at guard now and an interior OL that can challenge for a spot, more likely at center.

Package 2: A true starter at IOL and a developmental tackle.  

We've done the simulators.  Even if there is a rush on talent someone between Humpheries, Leatherwood, Eichenberg or Cosmi should be there in the 2nd.  In the 3rd Radunz, S.Brown, Carman or Greene worst case.  

Starting 2nd and 3rd round picks aren't ideal, but they would be upgrades on this roster.  

(04-28-2021, 10:41 PM)phil413 Wrote: The biggest variable fueling the Chase vs Sewell war is Cincy's FO's recent track record.  Because plan Chase includes faith in the FO landing the right OL later and best case scenarios out of the OL they put in place, it offends team Sewell people.  Team Sewell members are in denial that the draw isn't just the thirst for a star OL or seeing more than what's actually there on tape...we think we have the next Munoz.

I believe the best plan may be Chase and the right OL later, but the FO hasn't given me a case to present anyone that they're the ones to carry out that plan.

In most drafts, one year of production on a stacked offense and a killer workout after a year off does not an uber-elite WR prospect make. Prior to the Darnold trade and workout process there was talk of Sewell going as high as 2. Was there any talk of Chase going that high until his 40 time? The notion that Chase is the most godly prospect at WR since Megatron seems a bit much. Is he an apparently better prospect than say, Slater who has struggled with raw power? Sure I'd agree with that. Is his tape, body of production, and workout really head and shoulders ahead of Sewell's? In a world where perfect tackles don't exist, I don't think so. Even his "bad" games make him look pretty solid. The "subpar competition" argument would hold up better if he weren't teammates with Thibodeax. 

I'm also a bit confused by the argument that there's depth at OT this year but you absolutely have to take a WR high if they're going to be any good. The Steelers, Pats, and Packers seem to do just fine at finding weapons in the later rounds. 

I think that the most poignant thing to consider is this: elite OLs tend to win championships. Elite WRs tend to win fantasy football. With Sewell they have a shot at solidifying 1/5th of that unit with a potentially elite talent. I do like Chase, but can't be convinced that the potential upside there is better than that of assembling a top tier OL. Geoff Schwartz just went on The Herd and put it succinctly: all you have to do is study the history of the NFL. He proceeded to rattle off elite OL teams who won championships. Do you shoot for a 90s Cowboys OL or mid 2010s Bengals skill position room? Which one ever did anything in the post season? 

There's one thing I think is especially interesting about picking Chase. During Zac's presser of last week, he mentioned that he likes to see how guys play when they're losing, or facing adversity or whatever. Cuz that's where you can tell what they're really about and assess their quality as teammates- which is even more important at the pro level, since you'll be adding that force to the locker room for possibly the next 10 years. I thought it was a really good point and... am I allowed to say that I was impressed? lol

The thing is, there's no way to know how Chase would fare in that context. His sample size is so small. And it's not his fault. But he played one year with an unbeaten team alongside (literally) the most powerful offense in history. All but three games were blowouts, and even those didn't exactly go down the wire. What do we really know about him?

I'm not saying he's a prima donna. And don't worry Chase fans, you'll still get your guy. That won't change in the next four hours lol. I just wonder how awkward Zac feels that he has to grade Chase in the proverbial "vacuum" and simply give him the benefit of the doubt, considering it runs counter to his normal evaluation processes.

Well, Chase is wearing orange, white, and black shoes.

https://twitter.com/BlakeJewellNFL/status/1387896479667326976

(04-29-2021, 06:06 PM)tms Wrote: There's one thing I think is especially interesting about picking Chase. During Zac's presser of last week, he mentioned that he likes to see how guys play when they're losing, or facing adversity or whatever. Cuz that's where you can tell what they're really about and assess their quality as teammates- which is even more important at the pro level, since you'll be adding that force to the locker room for possibly the next 10 years. I thought it was a really good point and... am I allowed to say that I was impressed? lol

The thing is, there's no way to know how Chase would fare in that context. His sample size is so small. And it's not his fault. But he played one year with an unbeaten team alongside (literally) the most powerful offense in history. All but three games were blowouts, and even those didn't exactly go down the wire. What do we really know about him?

I'm not saying he's a prima donna. And don't worry Chase fans, you'll still get your guy. That won't change in the next four hours lol. I just wonder how awkward Zac feels that he has to grade Chase in the proverbial "vacuum" and simply give him the benefit of the doubt, considering it runs counter to his normal evaluation processes.

Are any of these top guys from losing programs?

(04-29-2021, 09:08 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Are any of these top guys from losing programs?

It's a good point. But they've had moments. Bama lost to LSU, for example. Chase didn't even have those. Virtually all of his tape is from the perfect situation. It's not a red flag, but it is an anomaly. 

(04-29-2021, 09:28 PM)tms Wrote: It's a good point. But they've had moments. Bama lost to LSU, for example. Chase didn't even have those. Virtually all of his tape is from the perfect situation. It's not a red flag, but it is an anomaly. 

You mean he didn't lose his freshman year then help make the almost virtually unstoppable offense in his sophomore year? Weird...

Chase

/thread

(04-29-2021, 10:15 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: You mean he didn't lose his freshman year then help make the almost virtually unstoppable offense in his sophomore year? Weird...

Good one...