(06-08-2021, 12:03 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Hubbard's worth more than that. As he is another MJ, give him something around MJs two contracts (between 6 mil and 8.7 mil) and that's right where he's worth.

And he'll probably get more than that, a year.

MJ got that deal comig off 10 sacks.  Hubbard had 2
MJ was cut 1 year into his bad deal.  

(06-08-2021, 12:25 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: He had 2 sacks last year guys.  2 sacks.  You guys want to throw 7-9 million at 2 sacks and a good run defender?  You can find that in rounds 3-6 if you start them 13 games like Sam did.  

And Carl Lawson had 5.5 sacks and received a 16 million a year contract. I think you are using only sack numbers as a basis for your arguement and you could not be more wrong.

(06-07-2021, 09:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: BTW other than Bates and Hubbard these are the other significant Bengals who will be free agents in 2022 with '21 salary

RT Riley Rieff.......... 7.5 M
DT Larry Ogunjobi... 6.2 M
TE C.J. Uzomah...... 6.1 M

I'd add Darius Phillips to that list as well 670k salary. I think we'd have interest in re-signing him as well, especially if he plays well in his contract year.

(06-08-2021, 12:31 PM)Synric Wrote: And Carl Lawson had 5.5 sacks and received a 16 million a year contract. I think you are using only sack numbers as a basis for your arguement and you could not be more wrong.

If they were going to throw big money at Sam, they wouldn't have already done that with Hendrickson.  Carl had great pressure stats as did Hendrickson.  

(06-08-2021, 12:25 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: He had 2 sacks last year guys.  2 sacks.  You guys want to throw 7-9 million at 2 sacks and a good run defender?  You can find that in rounds 3-6 if you start them 13 games like Sam did.  

Hubbard has proven that he is more than a "2 sack DE". He had 14.5 sacks in only 1350 snaps in '18-'19.

Bates becoming the team rep for the NFLPA has to give the impression he wants to be here long term, so yes he should be the priority to resign. On Hubbard I think you give it half a season and see how the DL works with him and Hendrickson and if its working well, I have no issue resigning him either.

I do thing WR gets interesting, and by the end of this season, coaching staff and management has to at least know which one they prefer to keep. Perfect world you resign both, realistically only one probably resigns.

Burrow, I don't think you worry about right now, for him to get 35-40M a year, he has got to lead the Bengals to at least a super bowl, or a couple AFC title games. I'm not sure they team will be there just yet (maybe in year 5 of his deal.) Even so, I think the bigger question on Burrow is who is the Head Coach by the end of his deal?

(06-08-2021, 12:25 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: He had 2 sacks last year guys.  2 sacks.  You guys want to throw 7-9 million at 2 sacks and a good run defender?  You can find that in rounds 3-6 if you start them 13 games like Sam did.  

1.) He is considered the best run defending Defensive End in the league.
2.) He had 8.5 sacks in 2019.

(06-07-2021, 10:47 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: What do you think is a fair deal for both Hubbard and Bates?

Hubbard is solid, but he should be a 3 mil a year guy. He's replaceable. 

He'll make $7 mill per year easily. 3 mill is a backup level player nowadays.

(06-08-2021, 02:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: He'll make $7 mill per year easily. 3 mill is a backup level player nowadays.

Which is why I said 3-6. 

(06-08-2021, 12:28 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: MJ got that deal comig off 10 sacks.  Hubbard had 2
MJ was cut 1 year into his bad deal.  

MJ got that deal coming off of 3.5 sacks or whatever and he never had 10 sacks. He had 11.5 in 2012, but yeah, contract came a year later.

Nice try.

(06-08-2021, 02:23 PM)plantmanky Wrote: Bates becoming the team rep for the NFLPA has to give the impression he wants to be here long term, so yes he should be the priority to resign. On Hubbard I think you give it half a season and see how the DL works with him and Hendrickson and if its working well, I have no issue resigning him either.

I do thing WR gets interesting, and by the end of this season, coaching staff and management has to at least know which one they prefer to keep. Perfect world you resign both, realistically only one probably resigns.

Burrow, I don't think you worry about right now, for him to get 35-40M a year, he has got to lead the Bengals to at least a super bowl, or a couple AFC title games. I'm not sure they team will be there just yet (maybe in year 5 of his deal.) Even so, I think the bigger question on Burrow is who is the Head Coach by the end of his deal?

That's what I said a few weeks ago; it makes no sense for him to be in that role, if he intends to leave. The only guy we had like that was Winston, but that was because he was NFLPA president (I may be wrong, but I believe they trump any team rep and become the defacto team rep, automatically).

Bengals don't sign guys during the season, so he'll be signed before or during TC, guaranteed.

Jessie Bates should be the priority. Period.

I can take or leave Hubbard, but Bates needs to be re-signed. Our defense has been craving a playmaker in the secondary since...well forever. Bates is elite. You don't let talent that you draft like him walk...but we've seen this from the Bengals before, so I won't be shocked.

(06-07-2021, 10:47 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: What do you think is a fair deal for both Hubbard and Bates?

Hubbard is solid, but he should be a 3 mil a year guy. He's replaceable. 

This is my biggest thing. Hubbard is replaceable via free agency...Bates is not. 

(06-08-2021, 12:25 AM)schroomytunes Wrote: Good post, for me it's a no brainer. The smart money here is to extend Hubbard to a 5 million per year deal, as he's not an elite DE, he's good but can be replaced via draft if need be. Bates OTOH is elite!!! why not him you say, well we can use the franchise tag on him as safety tags are far from expensive and work out an extension during the offseason. Either way I think Hubbard gets extended before the season starts, its usually the Bengals way of doing things before the season opener!

This is a good point. I know the Bengals don't like the tag, but Bates would be fully worth it. 

(06-08-2021, 03:31 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: MJ got that deal coming off of 3.5 sacks or whatever and he never had 10 sacks. He had 11.5 in 2012, but yeah, contract came a year later.

Nice try.


That's what I said a few weeks ago; it makes no sense for him to be in that role, if he intends to leave. The only guy we had like that was Winston, but that was because he was NFLPA president (I may be wrong, but I believe they trump any team rep and become the defacto team rep, automatically).

Bengals don't sign guys during the season, so he'll be signed before or during TC, guaranteed.

So, can I go ahead and buy a Jessie Bates jersey then? 

What I'd look to give:

Bates - $15.5 mill APY

On Bates, He's producing as good as Simmons, who is making $15.25 mill APY. The Bengals can cut Trae Waynes after this year to free up $11 mill if they're worried about spending too much money on DBs.

Hubbard - $7-8 mill APY

On Hubbard, I see a solid starter, but I could also see Ossai pushing him out. I'd honestly be ok setting limit at $8 mill and say take it or leave it, as Ossai can take over his spot in 2022 if he doesn't re-sign.

(06-07-2021, 09:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: BTW other than Bates and Hubbard these are the other significant Bengals who will be free agents in 2022 with '21 salary

RT Riley Rieff.......... 7.5 M
DT Larry Ogunjobi... 6.2 M
TE C.J. Uzomah...... 6.1 M

If Reiff plays well, he's going to get $10+ mill a year from someone, I think.
Will the Bengals pay that for someone who will be 33 next year?

If Ogunjobi gets 6+ sacks, he's probably going to get $8-10 mill.
I doubt the Bengals dump big money into every single DL starter, so it might depend on whether Hubbard re-signs, but it could happen.

Uzomah has to get 600+ yards this year for me think about re-signing him.

(06-08-2021, 03:40 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: So, can I go ahead and buy a Jessie Bates jersey then? 

I don't have a crystal ball, but that is one habit that has rung true for the Bengals for over a decade now... so I'd say the odds are in your favour .

(06-08-2021, 03:31 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: MJ got that deal coming off of 3.5 sacks or whatever and he never had 10 sacks. He had 11.5 in 2012, but yeah, contract came a year later.

Nice try.


That's what I said a few weeks ago; it makes no sense for him to be in that role, if he intends to leave. The only guy we had like that was Winston, but that was because he was NFLPA president (I may be wrong, but I believe they trump any team rep and become the defacto team rep, automatically).

Bengals don't sign guys during the season, so he'll be signed before or during TC, guaranteed.

And Johnson was overpaid regardless.  I'd say he and hubbard are equally effective.  Wouldn't want big money in either of them.  

(06-07-2021, 09:52 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I want to see Bates extended. I'm okay with not signing anyone else to ensure we make it happen. Hubbard would be a good resign as well. We could also wait on Hubbard and see how he does this year before signing him. Bates is definitely deserving of high end money though. Get it done.

Same, I am okay on waiting on extending Hubbard. Want us to get a deal done with Bates first.

Don’t mess around with a tag. Just sign him to a 4 year deal. Get it done. Why mess around?