(02-20-2022, 08:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So basically - Give him a loaded roster at every position, then evaluate his play calling?

No let’s judge him last year. No preseason games or OTA’s and a rookie QB, crap defense and no Chase.
Loses to Chargers first game 16-13
Loses to Browns game 2 35-30
Ties Eagles game 3.
Beats Jags game 4
Ravens drill them 27-3 game 5
Colts beat them game 6 by 4
Game 7 Browns beat them 37-34
Game 8 they beat the Titans
Game 9 Steelers drill them
Game 10 disaster lose Burrow
Game 11 Backup QB lose to Giants 19-17
Lose games 12 & 13 to the Dolphins and Cowboys
Game 14 beat the Steelers 27-17 with who Ryan Finley?
Game 15 beat the Texans 37-31
Game 16 the Ravens drill them.

He’s done fine with the talent he’s had.

(02-20-2022, 08:44 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: No let’s judge him last year. No preseason games or OTA’s  and a rookie QB, crap defense and no Chase.
Loses to Chargers first game 16-13
Loses to Browns game 2 35-30
Ties Eagles game 3.
Beats Jags game 4
Ravens drill them 27-3 game 5
Colts beat them game 6 by 4
Game 7 Browns beat them 37-34
Game 8 they beat the Titans
Game 9 Steelers drill them
Game 10 disaster lose Burrow
Game 11 Backup QB lose to Giants 19-17
Lose games 12 & 13 to the Dolphins and Cowboys
Game 14 beat the Steelers 27-17 with who Ryan Finley?
Game 15 beat the Texans 37-31
Game 16 the Ravens drill them.  

He’s done fine with the talent he’s had.

Yeah...no one could have won last year with a rookie QB (Burrow).

(02-20-2022, 09:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...no one could have won last year with a rookie QB (Burrow).

You obviously didn’t really even pay much attention to my post. With a rookie QB and no OTA’s or Rookie Camp they were close in a lot of games. Much worse OL, no preseason.no Reader, no Wayne’s, no Uzomah, no Mixon, no Burrow for 1/2 the season. Yet they had a lot of close games. Doesn’t really matter Taylor has likely doubled his salary and has 5 years. Learn to live with it he’s calling the plays and has full reigns now.

I hope with an improved line the offense and Zac's playcalling will improve. But who wouldn't win with what we have if we hypothetically get a solid oline this year. Burrow, the receivers and Mixon I should hope just about anyone would. The superbowl proved all the people's hesitations with Taylor to be correct in my opinion. He's a good coach and can win with talent but he's not gonna raise the bar for everyone on the field. With everything that went wrong with the oline we still could've won that game with a better offensive mind calling plays. No screens was ridiculous to see not putting Mixon in on the last drive was bad. I also like Evans but I have to ask myself where did he go the last half of the season. We don't use him at all and then expect to use him in the superbowl and everything work out great.

(02-20-2022, 11:25 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: You obviously didn’t really even pay much attention to my post. With a rookie QB and no OTA’s or Rookie Camp they were close in a lot of games. Much worse OL, no preseason.no Reader, no Wayne’s, no Uzomah, no Mixon, no Burrow for 1/2 the season. Yet they had a lot of close games. Doesn’t really matter Taylor has likely doubled his salary and has 5 years. Learn to live with it he’s calling the plays and has full reigns now.

What does DJ Reader getting hurt have to do with his playcalling?

He may end up a good HC, but he could be a mediocre playcaller.

(02-20-2022, 11:42 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I hope with an improved line the offense and Zac's playcalling will improve. But who wouldn't win with what we have if we hypothetically get a solid oline this year. Burrow, the receivers and Mixon I should hope just about anyone would. The superbowl proved all the people's hesitations with Taylor to be correct in my opinion. He's a good coach and can win with talent but he's not gonna raise the bar for everyone on the field. With everything that went wrong with the oline we still could've won that game with a better offensive mind calling plays. No screens was ridiculous to see not putting Mixon in on the last drive was bad. I also like Evans but I have to ask myself where did he go the last half of the season. We don't use him at all and then expect to use him in the superbowl and everything work out great.

Yes. If you put Burrow and Chase on this years Browns, Steelers, Ravens...theyre likely making a long playoff run.

One thing you can't say about Zac is that he doesn't man up to his mistakes.. Indeed he does and in my mind it makes him a better coach to command respect from his team.. You can argue all day about this or that call, but most NFL coaches make bonehead decisions from time to time..even in the superbowl..Pete Carroll is a prime example and hardly alone in it.. Zac seems to at least be able to learn.. many coaches never do learn and just keep making the same dumb moves over and over and over. Whether it's arrogance or whatever we see plenty enough of it to go around.. 

Improve the offensive line and Zac Taylor's play calling will suddenly "improve" as well. He'll have (1) more options and (2) a better chance of plays succeeding.

(02-21-2022, 01:21 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Improve the offensive line and Zac Taylor's play calling will suddenly "improve"as well.  He'll have (1) more options and (2) a better chance of plays succeeding.

Improve the playcalling and you make a mediocre line look better too.

While averaging 4.8 ypc against the Rams, if we ran it more...that's less sacks Burrow would have taken. It cuts both ways.

How many regular season games did this team do nothing for an entire half? And those were games the line played ok in.

(02-21-2022, 01:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Improve the playcalling and you make a mediocre line look better too.

While averaging 4.8 ypc against the Rams, if we ran it more...that's less sacks Burrow would have taken. It cuts both ways.

How many regular season games did this team do nothing for an entire half? And those were games the line played ok in.

Yet we were solid in points per play and yards per play so our efficiency was solid. And our second half points solid a sign of great adjustments by Zac and his offensive coaches. Amazingly on the road only KC and Buffalo were better offensively in the second half …. and with that OL …. actually amazing.

(02-21-2022, 01:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: While averaging 4.8 ypc against the Rams, if we ran it more...that's less sacks Burrow would have taken. 

But since we averaged more yards per pass than run the more we run the fewer yards we gain.

Here is the way criticism of play calling works.  If the play is successful then fans consider it a good call.  If it fails then it was a bad call.

If a coach does what every other coach does then he is "too conservative and predictable".  If he does something no other coach would have done then he is crazy for not doing what "everyone knows works".

Bengals do need to get better with passing the ball when under center. Maybe they will once the IOL gets more solidified such that Burrow actually has a pocket to step into.

You dont win division then win AFC championship without a solid game plan, kudos to ZT

What was our short yardage run success plays all season? I didn't trust 3rd and 1/2 let alone 4th and 1/2. I wonder.

(02-20-2022, 07:04 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The second half the players made a lot of mistakes. Wrong patterns. Burrow on his protection. Burrow on his decisions. Taylor on his play calls. The OL did not block as well. I’m not going to use the SB as some measuring stick for the season. I think our inexperience showed up with the coaches and players and might be attributed to the pressure. But let’s face it their players Stafford, Donald, and Kupp made more plays. With the criticism of Taylor and his play calling McVay wonder boy got what 4 more? It’s nit picking.

For the season 6th in yards per point and 8th points per play. That’s nice efficiency with that OL

That's been my point in all of this. If Zac is awful, then McVay must not be all that, considering the final score.

(02-20-2022, 08:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So basically - Give him a loaded roster at every position, then evaluate his play calling?

The line needn't be loaded, it just needs to be adequate. The right side was not very good after Reiff went out. That said, it was still an improvement over Bobby Hart and Alex Redmond. The offense was better all year as a result, even Burrow. Sure, Chase impacts that, but no more drive killing penalties, and no more Hart getting abused along with the RG. I don't recall a lot of 5 or 7 step dropbacks this year. There wasn't time. This offensive line doesn't just handicap Zac, it essentially sank Marvin. It's been bad for YEARS.

After the halfway point of the season we should have lined up 5 wide on every short yardage situation. (3rd-4th down, 2 yds or less to go).

I was just watching on the NFL network the Cincy/KC game in OT. They were raving how the Bengals were down 21-3 at Arrowhead and beat KC. Just an incredible feat. Yet the criticism Taylor gets is so petty. Oh his play calling cost us in the SB. Perine out there instead of Mixon. His play calling hasn’t helped Burrow. If any coach had Burrow and Chase they’d win too. The respect he gets with so little experience as a head coach for doing so well in the playoffs and on the road plus turning around a team with a 4-11-1 record his amazing accomplishment is sooooo underrated

(02-24-2022, 03:17 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I was just watching on the NFL network the Cincy/KC game in OT. They were raving how the Bengals were down 21-3 at Arrowhead and beat KC. Just an incredible feat. Yet the criticism Taylor gets is so petty. Oh his play calling cost us in the SB. Perine out there instead of Mixon. His play calling hasn’t helped Burrow. If any coach had Burrow and Chase they’d win too. The respect he gets with so little experience as a head coach for doing so well in the playoffs and on the road plus turning around a team with a 4-11-1 record his amazing accomplishment is sooooo underrated

Im guessing Perine was in as to keep the defense thinking pass?  Zac said he is always in on that scheme...?

I get your point and it is valid.  But what about zero screen plays in the SB? The one thing LAR was the worst in the league with was defending the screen.  We are actually decent at running those.  Any insight?

(02-24-2022, 03:43 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Im guessing Perine was in as to keep the defense thinking pass?  Zac said he is always in on that scheme...?

I get your point and it is valid.  But what about zero screen plays in the SB? The one thing LAR was the worst in the league with was defending the screen.  We are actually decent at running those.  Any insight?

I think Perine in instead of Mixon was a mistake. Hill the running back coach suggested putting in Joe but scared of forcing a timeout Zac refrained. But Perine is their 2 minute back. It’s no mystery Mixon struggles ( not blocking ) but picking up blitzes and twists. Perine is bigger. They also try to manage Mixon’s load. I was told LA took away the screens. Makes sense as I’d expect Cincy to throw a lot that game and work on that as a strategy thinking that was exactly what they’d do. I’ve not watched the replay to validate that.

What happened is that the game was close and their players made plays and ours didn’t. We made a lot in our playoff run. I think we made a lot of mistakes on offense in the Super Bowl. Joe made a lot. The receivers ran wrong routes. Joe didn’t do well in protection calls. If Spain even gets any hit on Donald then Burrow hits Higgins and steps up on the last play. But LA (and look for others to do so) tried to collapse the pocket a lot. Bottom line is they spent so much effort blocking the edges the interior could push the pocket back. I think Pollard got really out coached in the Super Bowl. He did a good job this year and our OL isn’t good but the SB was not his best. Nor was it Taylor’s. But I’m sure not complaining