(08-26-2024, 05:48 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: He is asking for what CeeDee got essentially.  Lamb is getting 30.8 per year and Chase would be getting 32 or just under according to the #s we heard. Chase's deal seems vastly different on the surface because with 2 yrs left instead of 1 his deal looks like 4yr 160 mil instead of the 136mil. But pretty close to the same deal. 

So Chase should get 24 million more than Lamb and 20 million more than Jefferson because he has only played 3 NFL seasons?  You keep doing this crazy math to justify Chase getting a larger contract extension than every other WR out there.   He doesn't deserve more money than Jefferson or Lamb.  160 million for a 4 year extension is still 160 million no matter how you break up the money.  Jefferson didnt get paid that and neither did Lamb.  Chase should because he has only played 3 seasons?

(08-26-2024, 11:39 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: So Chase should get 24 million more than Lamb and 20 million more than Jefferson because he has only played 3 NFL seasons?  You keep doing this crazy math to justify Chase getting a larger contract extension than every other WR out there.   He doesn't deserve more money than Jefferson or Lamb.  160 million for a 4 year extension is still 160 million no matter how you break up the money.  Jefferson didnt get paid that and neither did Lamb.  Chase should because he has only played 3 seasons?

If I am not mistaken Nug said we should pay Chase what Lamb got, not more than Jefferson.

Should we start a new thread if he's practicing?

(08-26-2024, 10:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nah, Chase was bad at it in College; I remember comparing him to the Slim Reaper in such situations. 

Chase is one of the best YAC receivers in the league. A big part of his game is breaking tackles, and being hard to bring down. Not to mention he’s literally built like a RB. I’m going to go ahead and say they could be a hell of a lot more effective using him out of the backfield if the blocking and scheme were better.

(08-26-2024, 11:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: If I am not mistaken Nug said we should pay Chase what Lamb got, not more than Jefferson.

What he as well as a few others keeps saying is Chase demanding 160 million is the same deal Jefferson signed at 140 million or Lamb at 136 million for a 4 year extension.   To most people this would sound like ridiculous math since it's obvious 160 million is 20 million more than either Jefferson or Lamb got.  

(08-27-2024, 12:01 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Chase is one of the best YAC receivers in the league. A big part of his game is breaking tackles, and being hard to bring down. Not to mention he’s literally built like a RB. I’m going to go ahead and say they could be a hell of a lot more effective using him out of the backfield if the blocking and scheme were better.

They really should figure out how to use him on reverses or something. 

Unfortunately the play design (when he has been used in the backfield) has been lacking.

(08-27-2024, 12:01 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Chase is one of the best YAC receivers in the league. A big part of his game is breaking tackles, and being hard to bring down. Not to mention he’s literally built like a RB. I’m going to go ahead and say they could be a hell of a lot more effective using him out of the backfield if the blocking and scheme were better.

Why wasn't he good at it at LSU, was that because of the Bengal's blocking scheme? 

Look,the dude doesn't have to be awesome at everything; he's a top WR in the NFL. 

Getting the ball at/behind the LOS is not a Chase strength. It wasn't in College and it hasn't been in the Pros. IDK why, but Imma say it's on him. 

(08-26-2024, 10:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'd be in the minority of those who live in the past.

You and others can say the Bengals are bad at contract negotiations, I will not. If that puts me in the minority so be it.

We're currently a great team in a fine place cap-wise. Sure we were terrible years ago. 

Does Mike Brown have soft hands or something? 

(08-26-2024, 10:46 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I was very clear that things have gotten better with Katie having more control, but we still lack the 2nd year guarantee that most teams do nowadays.  

Burrow has also covered a lot for this team.  I would say that we have good talent, but we do not have multiple blue chippers, especially on defense.  We couldnt keep Bates or Reader, Trey is our only "guy".  Other AFCN teams have more than one on defense.  When we have multiple stars they are all on their rookie deals except maybe one veteran.

Most of our fans wouldnt know how to act if we had Howie Roseman and an owner with a willingness to spend just a little more.

I will give them this. The Bengals used to be a decade behind everyone else when it came to "keeping up with the Joneses". Now they're only a couple years behind. 

Progress!

(08-27-2024, 12:14 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Why wasn't he good at it at LSU, was that because of the Bengal's blocking scheme? 

Look,the dude doesn't have to be awesome at everything; he's a top WR in the NFL. 

Getting the ball at/behind the LOS is not a Chase strength. It wasn't in College and it hasn't been in the Pros. IDK why, but Imma say it's on him. 

I think it's just so obvious when they move him into the backfield that everyone keys on him and it's a quick tackle.

They should get him moving from out wide more. I think that would be more effective.
When you bring him into the backfield from the get go his options are more limited in what he can do.
He doesn't have as much space to maneuver.

He's a great YAC receiver when he get's into or close to space.


I'd like to see more Screens, slants, reverses, RB runs where he fakes a reverse. 
Get him involved on quick hitting plays more often. 

Have him shift from the slot to out wide, and visa versa.

He should play more than he does in the slot.
Maybe with Burton they can run Tee and Burton out wide and bring Chase in the slot more.
Although it does look like Yoshi is ahead of Burton right now.

They need to get more creative and deceptive calling and designing plays.
Get everyone involved too.

(08-27-2024, 12:14 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Why wasn't he good at it at LSU, was that because of the Bengal's blocking scheme? 

Look,the dude doesn't have to be awesome at everything; he's a top WR in the NFL. 

Getting the ball at/behind the LOS is not a Chase strength. It wasn't in College and it hasn't been in the Pros. IDK why, but Imma say it's on him. 

Chase
2023: 13th in Broken Tackles (6), 12th in YACON (123)
2022: T2nd in Broken Tackles (10), 17th in YACON (141)
2021: T6th in Broken Tackles (8), 3rd in YACON (251)

In 2023 Chase did get more RPO bubble screen opportunities especially early in the season but I'm not sure that really helped because the blocking was terrible and defenses were keyed on it soon as they realized Joe couldn't move or drive the ball. That Titans game was a nightmare.

(08-27-2024, 12:40 AM)Synric Wrote: Chase
2023: 13th in Broken Tackles (6), 12th in YACON (123)
2022: T2nd in Broken Tackles (10), 17th in YACON (141)
2021: T6th in Broken Tackles (8), 3rd in YACON (251)

In 2023 Chase did get more RPO bubble screen opportunities especially early in the season but I'm not sure that really helped because the blocking was terrible and defenses were keyed on it soon as they realized Joe couldn't move or drive the ball. That Titans game was a nightmare.

I NEVER said Chase was not good at breaking tackles.

You guys are going to make me have to work for this aren't you?

When I have a little more time I'll find the comparison I had of him versus the Slim Reaper in College in reference to plays at/behind the LOS.  I'll see how much I can find on how he's faired in the NFL, but it most likely won't matter to some.

I clearly stated IDK why he's not good at it (ensure we use good in the context of elite WRs), he should be great at it. 

(08-27-2024, 12:45 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I NEVER said Chase was not good at breaking tackles.

You guys are going to make me have to work for this aren't you?

When I have a little more time I'll find the comparison I had of him versus the Slim Reaper in College in reference to plays at/behind the LOS.  I'll see how much I can find on how he's faired in the NFL, but it most likely won't matter to some.

I clearly stated IDK why he's not good at it (ensure we use good in the context of elite WRs), he should be great at it. 

(08-26-2024, 11:39 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: So Chase should get 24 million more than Lamb and 20 million more than Jefferson because he has only played 3 NFL seasons?  You keep doing this crazy math to justify Chase getting a larger contract extension than every other WR out there.   He doesn't deserve more money than Jefferson or Lamb.  160 million for a 4 year extension is still 160 million no matter how you break up the money.  Jefferson didnt get paid that and neither did Lamb.  Chase should because he has only played 3 seasons?

It's not crazy math. Lamb and Jefferson had one yr left on they're contract when they signed a 4yr deal really being a 5yr extension. Chase has 2 yrs left so a 4yr deal would really be a 6yr extension. Yes he would get more money in his deal and it would give him the badge of the biggest contract. But he would be getting the same money per year. Even if he got what was reported it would be 32 per year. 1.2 mil per year more than lamb. Who's gonna be upset by that here?

(08-27-2024, 12:14 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Why wasn't he good at it at LSU, was that because of the Bengal's blocking scheme? 

Look,the dude doesn't have to be awesome at everything; he's a top WR in the NFL. 

Getting the ball at/behind the LOS is not a Chase strength. It wasn't in College and it hasn't been in the Pros. IDK why, but Imma say it's on him. 

Yes he is good a breaking tackles if those tackles are made in the secondary. He's not that good at coming out of the backfield and breaking/cutting thru the whole defense. Deebo is good at this but Chase is better down the field as a receiver. I think the whole point of saying the Bengals use him like this is really because 1 they do for whatever reason and 2 because he's not good at it and it his numbers. So people want to use these numbers but there is more to them.

(08-26-2024, 11:59 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Should we start a new thread if he's practicing?

Here ya go..   http://https://thebengalsboard.com/thread-38877.html

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/inside-the-ceedee-lamb-deal

Interesting breakdowns with the guaranteed for injury only in the later years, and the "outs" built in.

(08-27-2024, 07:01 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: It's not crazy math. Lamb and Jefferson had one yr left on they're contract when they signed a 4yr deal really being a 5yr extension. Chase has 2 yrs left so a 4yr deal would really be a 6yr extension. Yes he would get more money in his deal and it would give him the badge of the biggest contract. But he would be getting the same money per year. Even if he got what was reported it would be 32 per year. 1.2 mil per year more than lamb. Who's gonna be upset by that here?

It's a 4 year extension.  Just because they move money to his rookie contract years doesnt change the fact its a 4 year extension.

(08-27-2024, 09:05 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: It's a 4 year extension.  Just because they move money to his rookie contract years doesnt change the fact its a 4 year extension.

Okay I'm just trying to tell you how everyone looks at these contracts. Everybody breaks down what the actual year average is going to be. It's what really matters most as this will be what the team has to deal with. 
Chase is clearly going to want to be right there with these top guys in yearly average. If he wants to have the highest contract at the time of signing this is probably the time to do it. I assume the real hang up is the guaranteed money.

(08-27-2024, 09:30 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Okay I'm just trying to tell you how everyone looks at these contracts. Everybody breaks down what the actual year average is going to be. It's what really matters most as this will be what the team has to deal with. 
Chase is clearly going to want to be right there with these top guys in yearly average. If he wants to have the highest contract at the time of signing this is probably the time to do it. I assume the real hang up is the guaranteed money.

Chase shouldn't average the same money per year as Jefferson or Lamb.   What you are saying is Chase should be paid 20+ million more than Jefferson and Lamb because he has 2 years left on his rookie contract while they have just one.   I'm not sure why anyone would think Chase playing just 3 seasons while Jefferson/Lamb have played 4 entitles Chase to get 20+ million more.   That's the logic though.  Chase playing less years than Jefferson and Lamb means he is entitled to 20+ million more than those guys.  Makes sense.

Like I said before if you signed Chase to the 4 year extension this year but the money doesn't kick in until season 5 like Jefferson and Lamb would you still try to justify 160 million for Chase? If you averaged that extension over 5 years like Jefferson/Lamb this would put Chase at 36.36 million per year which is much higher than both Jefferson and Lamb.