(09-10-2024, 09:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Always interesting to get an outside perspective.

CeeDee on Ja’Marr Chase.

Really thoughtful answer here. Can’t believe the deal isn’t done. #whodey pic.twitter.com/ehUcuPJO9v

— Kay Adams (@heykayadams) September 10, 2024

Kay is stupid.  Why did Jamarr play?  How hard is it to understand that CeeDee was in his final year, as was Jetta, as was Aiyuk?

(09-10-2024, 10:09 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Kay is stupid.  Why did Jamarr play?  How hard is it to understand that CeeDee was in his final year, as was Jetta, as was Aiyuk?

Getting into this for the millionth time wasn’t really my intention, but almost every other big name player from Chase’s draft class has already received their extensions. And in Sewell and Surtain’s case they were both market resetting deals at their positions.

Anyway, it was Lambs’s comments that were the interesting part, not Kay’s.

(09-10-2024, 10:23 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Getting into this for the millionth time wasn’t really my intention, but almost every other big name player from Chase’s draft class has already received their extensions. And in Sewell and Surtain’s case they were both market resetting deals at their positions.

Anyway, it was Lambs’s comments that were the interesting part, not Kay’s.

Its funny you think that I dont know that they all have been signed?  Which of them threatened to sit out games if they didnt?  Which WR sat out games last year?

Why is Chase expected to sit out after Year 3?  Its not the same.  Chase never once said he would miss games.  .  I know she's a fan but it is a stupid comment and many in the media and on social media said the same.  They are stupid as well.  IMHO

(09-10-2024, 11:13 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Its funny you think that I dont know that they all have been signed?  Which of them threatened to sit out games if they didnt?  Which WR sat out games last year?

Why is Chase expected to sit out after Year 3?  Its not the same.  Chase never once said he would miss games.  .  I know she's a fan but it is a stupid comment and many in the media and on social media said the same.  They are stupid as well.  IMHO

Again, you seem focused on Kay’s comments when it was Lamb’s that were the point. It doesn’t matter if a player did or didn’t threaten to sit out or not, it’s about how much this stuff weighs on the players. It would have been nice to just avoid having such a distraction to one of your 2 best players, your HC, and everyone else who’s been dealing with it all summer. Waiting “just because they can” is stupid. It’s not going to make coming up with the guaranteed money they need to get it done any easier next year.

(09-11-2024, 12:15 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Again, you seem focused on Kay’s comments when it was Lamb’s that were the point. It doesn’t matter if a player did or didn’t threaten to sit out or not, it’s about how much this stuff weighs on the players. It would have been nice to just avoid having such a distraction to one of your 2 best players, your HC, and everyone else who’s been dealing with it all summer. Waiting “just because they can” is stupid. It’s not going to make coming up with the guaranteed money they need to get it done any easier next year.

If I want to focus on Kays comments I can.  It silly that you are upset by my opinion on something so trivial.  

The front office, Chase, whoever is being unreasonable, if either are, it is an annoying situation. 

(09-11-2024, 12:19 AM)casear2727 Wrote: If I want to focus on Kays comments I can.  It silly that you are upset by my opinion on something so trivial.  

The front office, Chase, whoever is being unreasonable, if either are, it is an annoying situation.

On that much we can agree.

(09-10-2024, 10:09 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Kay is stupid.  Why did Jamarr play?  How hard is it to understand that CeeDee was in his final year, as was Jetta, as was Aiyuk?

She is blah blah blah over jamarr, not objective at all, how bout ask would practice then not practice, state I'm a game time decision or ask how much is enough,  a good deal was on table from all accounts but instead she throws softballs...

(09-11-2024, 01:00 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: She is blah blah blah over jamarr, not objective at all, how bout ask would practice then not practice, state I'm a game time decision or ask how much is enough,  a good deal was on table from all accounts but instead she throws softballs...

Isn't that actually "a good deal was on the table from BENGALS FO accounts"?

I don't recall ever hearing all the details of a deal that was on the table and as we've long witnessed the Bengals FO idea of a good deal and everyone else's idea of a good deal are miles apart... particularly when it comes to guaranteed money which is arguably the most important money.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room is what this means long term for the Bengals under current ownership.

They had a reputation for being cash-poor, deserved or not.  They still signed their major stars in almost every case.  All the way up to Joey B.

We might literally be running into the wall with Chase.  

I tend to believe that the team wants to pay him and keep him.  I fell like it's possible that they offered all they could.  Bickering over a 4th year at the current rate vs the future inflated rate seems like a strange hill to die on.  It gives them 3 more years to evaluate keeping him along with three more years of profit sharing revenue.  If anything, they get a chance to cut bait if things don't work out.  

If they can't afford to sign these kinds of guys, then they will either have to commit to churning for prospect capital or seek new, cash-flush ownership to remain competitive.  Unlikely. 

It won't quite be the grifting Castellini's and their MLB misery-factory money machine, but it will have similar limitations in acquiring talent.  Even the draft won't completely insulate them when guys start getting early extensions around the league as players here become disgruntled.  

This negotiation could be a major turning point for this franchise and unfortunately it's time in Cincinnati.  Even fan favorite players like Ja'marr are going to want money.  Can't hold it against them.  They will quickly become villains as soon as other members of their draft classes begin to break the bank.  They aren't Sam Hubbard.  They have no tie to the city or organization.

I've had a busy week at work, haven't had time to listen to Locked on, etc.... what's the early practice report from yesterday? Did Chase go full? How is Higgins?

(09-11-2024, 01:00 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: She is blah blah blah over jamarr, not objective at all, how bout ask would practice then not practice, state I'm a game time decision or ask how much is enough,  a good deal was on table from all accounts but instead she throws softballs...

Ehhhh...

Practicing, then not, is a leverage move.  One negotiations heated up, he started practicing, likely as a show good faith on his part or the team saying they won't negotiate until he practices.  Historically, the Bengals come in with low ball offers, which probably caused him to stop and then they upped their offer.  When asked about feeling if was being valued as the #2 priority behind Burrow when he was interviewed after returning to practice, his answer was "Now I do.". Not hard to figure out when you take our history into account.  They lowballed him to start, like they always do.

He was listed as Questionable on the Injury Report.  Do you realize that if he says he's definitely going to play the league can fine the club or take away draft picks for manipulating the Injury Report?  Also, he's not playing if the team doesn't dress him.  Technically, every player on the roster is a "game time decision" unless the HC says otherwise.  Not to mention that he said he wasn't going to sit due to his contract, already.  

"Good deal" is subjective, and it doesn't feel like you're being objective, here.  The only thing they agreed on and that can be assumed was "good" was the AAV.  They couldn't even agree on years, for heaven's sake, let alone payment schedule or the Bengals' Achilles heel, guaranteed money.

(09-11-2024, 09:55 AM)samhain Wrote: The 800 pound gorilla in the room is what this means long term for the Bengals under current ownership.

They had a reputation for being cash-poor, deserved or not.  They still signed their major stars in almost every case.  All the way up to Joey B.

We might literally be running into the wall with Chase.  

I tend to believe that the team wants to pay him and keep him.  I fell like it's possible that they offered all they could.  Bickering over a 4th year at the current rate vs the future inflated rate seems like a strange hill to die on.  It gives them 3 more years to evaluate keeping him along with three more years of profit sharing revenue.  If anything, they get a chance to cut bait if things don't work out.  

If they can't afford to sign these kinds of guys, then they will either have to commit to churning for prospect capital or seek new, cash-flush ownership to remain competitive.  Unlikely. 

It won't quite be the grifting Castellini's and their MLB misery-factory money machine, but it will have similar limitations in acquiring talent.  Even the draft won't completely insulate them when guys start getting early extensions around the league as players here become disgruntled.  

This negotiation could be a major turning point for this franchise and unfortunately it's time in Cincinnati.  Even fan favorite players like Ja'marr are going to want money.  Can't hold it against them.  They will quickly become villains as soon as other members of their draft classes begin to break the bank.  They aren't Sam Hubbard.  They have no tie to the city or organization.

Well said. While not quite the same, the Reds went through something very similar in 2014 with Votto. it had been a losing franchise for 13-14 years, had finally turned the corner with a really good core nucleus of players, was finally a playoff team and had found their superstar in Votto. It was time to shoe their fanbase they were serious going forward. 

According to Rapien, Chase wanted his guaranteed money (90m) earlier than Bengals FO was willing to offer. The deal was apparently 4 years, 140 million. 90 guaranteed, 30 signing bonus. 90 is taking too long to vest for Chase:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNnVTL7u_v4

(09-11-2024, 10:10 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: According to Rapien, Chase wanted his guaranteed money (90m) earlier than Bengals FO was willing to offer. The deal was apparently 4 years, 140 million. 90 guaranteed, 30 signing bonus. 90 is taking too long to vest for Chase:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNnVTL7u_v4

But he's not a selfish player....... just ask him.

(09-11-2024, 09:59 AM)740Bengal Wrote: I've had a busy week at work, haven't had time to listen to Locked on, etc.... what's the early practice report from yesterday? Did Chase go full? How is Higgins?

They don't practice on Tuesdays

(09-11-2024, 10:16 AM)Sled21 Wrote: But he's not a selfish player....... just ask him.

To be fair, many fans probably mischaracterized the personalities on this team.  Chase has an argument for being the best at his position.  He doesn't have the hard stats, but I doubt he'd have trouble getting the top deal in the league if he hit the open market.  Organizations know what he is.

The hometown deal/take less to win contract is a major outlier.  Almost no player is going to do it.  Even Pat Mahomes is going to gash KC when the bill comes due.  What he's doing is no fun, but it was probably unrealistic to expect any other outcome.

It's a bad look for an organization when fans operate under the assumption that an elite player should take less for some abstract sentimental reason.  Elite players get paid, period.  You don't overpay for mediocre ones as many teams due, but you pay the top dogs.

I think Chase might be pushing it, and I don't doubt the organization's sincere effort.  I just don't see it as all that unusual or necessarily greedy.

(09-11-2024, 10:16 AM)Sled21 Wrote: But he's not a selfish player....... just ask him.

So he selfish because wants a deal structured just like his peers? 

(09-11-2024, 10:10 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: According to Rapien, Chase wanted his guaranteed money (90m) earlier than Bengals FO was willing to offer. The deal was apparently 4 years, 140 million. 90 guaranteed, 30 signing bonus. 90 is taking too long to vest for Chase:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNnVTL7u_v4

2027. So IF Chase suffered a career-ending injury before that, he wouldn't be vested.

Kind of surprised they didn't work through this. Seems like dollars and years would be the big part.

Talking about elite NFL receivers, T. Hill showed up to Miami's game in  handcuffs and ended up catching a TD that helped Miami win Sunday.  

Whoever pays Tee next off season is going to regret it. If Chase leaves and someone sign him they won't have the slightest regrets thats the difference between Tee and Chase.