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I didn't do a full FA for this one.  Looking at the strengths and weaknesses of the 2025 FA class, I went in with the thought process that the Bengals will address WR2, G, and S there.  

Mason Graham slid to us at #13, and was very tempting, but the Arizona trade proposal was went I went with in the end.  

Jeanty wound up falling and I snatched him up to booster our pathetic RB group.  With few good NT options in FA, Williams should be able to compete for a starting role fairly early.  I went back to OSU for Tuimolua, who's pretty much a prototypical 4-3 LDE in the AFCN.  Stewart gives off poor man's "Slim Reaper" vibes and Taylor is a 2nd generation chain mover who can line up inline.

All of those early picks, yet you chose no one to help the interior of the OL?? I mean if you wanted to imitate what Mike Brown might do if he bought into such a trade, you nailed it.

(11-15-2024, 06:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: All of those early picks, yet you chose no one to help the interior of the OL?? I mean if you wanted to imitate what Mike Brown might do if he bought into such a trade, you nailed it.

lol exact same thing I was thinking.

There's always free agency, which I'd honestly rather have a solid vet, but we also need to build for the future.

Interior OL should be our number one priority because Burrow and Chase can outscore just about any offense with time to throw, which Burrow hasn't had yet in his career here.

(11-15-2024, 06:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: All of those early picks, yet you chose no one to help the interior of the OL?? I mean if you wanted to imitate what Mike Brown might do if he bought into such a trade, you nailed it.

(11-15-2024, 07:10 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: lol exact same thing I was thinking.

There's always free agency, which I'd honestly rather have a solid vet, but we also need to build for the future.

Interior OL should be our number one priority because Burrow and Chase can outscore just about any offense with time to throw, which Burrow hasn't had yet in his career here.

Did you guys miss where I said "Looking at the strengths and weaknesses of the 2025 FA class, I went in with the thought process that the Bengals will address WR2, G, and S there."?


It actually is a good FA G class, which is good because quality G's are relatively cheap compared to other position groups.  Plus, they will roll with Karras at C and will probably give Lee another year to develop before drafting over him.

I'm not gonna hate because of the positions you took... I'm gonna hate on the mock because you took two DL and neither can rush the passer lol. Evan Stewart is a deep threat similar to Burton. Mason Taylor is similar and opposite of Erick All. Similar prospect but he is more refine pass catch to All's run blocking. Love Ashton Jeanty but it is a deep RB class so I can see him sliding because of that.... not far though.

(11-17-2024, 11:49 AM)Synric Wrote: I'm not gonna hate because of the positions you took... I'm gonna hate on the mock because you took two DL and neither can rush the passer lol. Evan Stewart is a deep threat similar to Burton. Mason Taylor is similar and opposite of Erick All. Similar prospect but he is more refine pass catch to All's run blocking. Love Ashton Jeanty but it is a deep RB class so I can see him sliding because of that.... not far though.

Fair point regarding pass rush.  Both COULD develop, but definitely not a strong suit for either coming out.  

(11-18-2024, 02:54 PM)Whatever Wrote: Fair point regarding pass rush.  Both COULD develop, but definitely not a strong suit for either coming out.  

This would be my concern as well.

Bengals are 13th in rushing YPA allowed. Middle of the pack.
It's their lack of pass rush that seems to be more of a problem, and then teams are running on them after getting up to run out the clock.

For those folks who have played DL or coached defense before, is it easier to coach up how to stop the run or how to rush the passer?
I would think pass rush is harder to coach up because it typically requires more athleticism and skill than stopping the run, but that might be my ignorance.

I think as we're seeing especially this year, you're probably only getting decent contributions from 2 rookies.
Bengals need arguably two pass rushers (at least one DE, one DT), a DB (or two), a couple pass catchers, at least one swing tackle, and one backup IOL who could maybe push for starting reps in 2025.
Bengals aren't getting all of that in a single draft.

They'll need to assess the costs of quality veterans at different positions and invest $$ in FA to reduce the need for so many draft picks to contribute out of the gate.
Then in the draft, they should look to get significant contributions from two rookies and have 1-2 other rookies in some type of rotational role.
WR1's and good pass rushers are the most expensive, so I don't think Bengals spend in FA there.
If they spend on a WR to replace Higgins, it will be a more budget-friendly WR2.
TE and SAF are pretty cheap comparatively, so I think we may continue to see them go FA here.
OT I think it makes sense to get a quality backup as a swing tackle, as it's not realistic to expect a mid-round or late-round OT to have to step into a starting outside role as a rookie. There are usually quality swing tackle kinda guys available in FA who won't cost too much.
IOL I think is where we will want them to address in FA but I could see them drafting one early. However, I don't think that player will slot in as a starter initially, as they'll give Volson and Cappa every chance in the world to lose their spots. The likely plan will be to groom a draft pick for a year. See where that player is going into 2026 offseason before deciding to get a new vet starter or roll with the sophomore rookie.

(11-18-2024, 08:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: This would be my concern as well.

Bengals are 13th in rushing YPA allowed. Middle of the pack.
It's their lack of pass rush that seems to be more of a problem, and then teams are running on them after getting up to run out the clock.

For those folks who have played DL or coached defense before, is it easier to coach up how to stop the run or how to rush the passer?
I would think pass rush is harder to coach up because it typically requires more athleticism and skill than stopping the run, but that might be my ignorance.

I think as we're seeing especially this year, you're probably only getting decent contributions from 2 rookies.
Bengals need arguably two pass rushers (at least one DE, one DT), a DB (or two), a couple pass catchers, at least one swing tackle, and one backup IOL who could maybe push for starting reps in 2025.
Bengals aren't getting all of that in a single draft.

They'll need to assess the costs of quality veterans at different positions and invest $$ in FA to reduce the need for so many draft picks to contribute out of the gate.
Then in the draft, they should look to get significant contributions from two rookies and have 1-2 other rookies in some type of rotational role.
WR1's and good pass rushers are the most expensive, so I don't think Bengals spend in FA there.
If they spend on a WR to replace Higgins, it will be a more budget-friendly WR2.
TE and SAF are pretty cheap comparatively, so I think we may continue to see them go FA here.
OT I think it makes sense to get a quality backup as a swing tackle, as it's not realistic to expect a mid-round or late-round OT to have to step into a starting outside role as a rookie. There are usually quality swing tackle kinda guys available in FA who won't cost too much.
IOL I think is where we will want them to address in FA but I could see them drafting one early. However, I don't think that player will slot in as a starter initially, as they'll give Volson and Cappa every chance in the world to lose their spots. The likely plan will be to groom a draft pick for a year. See where that player is going into 2026 offseason before deciding to get a new vet starter or roll with the sophomore rookie.

The WR FA class is quite deep with a variety of good options.  I don't think they'll be at the top end with guys like Diggs and Godwin, but I can see them looking at a B tier guy like Dionte Johnson, Darius Slayton, Amari Cooper, or JuJu.  Not a particularly inspiring WR draft class, with 5 currently ranked in the Top 50.

With the Edge rusher FA class, honestly, some big names, but if we're paying a star edge rusher over 30, it needs to be Trey.  Josh Sweat and Michael Owenu are the only decent options under 30, and then you start getting into 1st round dissappointments like Chase Young and rotation players.  9 Edges currently in the Top 50 draft prospects, though.  

DT, honestly, BJ Hill might be the best of the bunch in FA.  There are 7 in the Top 50, but several are NT's that don't offer much pass rush.

The FA S is good this year, but the TE group doesn't inspire much confidence.  You're probably looking at another classic Bengals 1 year prove it and kick the can down the road unless you're going to address it in the draft.

T honestly, they can probably just bring back Ford, who isn't great, but he's only allowed one sack, so he's at least keeping Joe upright.  They still need a 4th T to groom, but they can grab one on Day 3 or earlier if the right value is there.  

G is a huge problem.  Fortunately, it's a very strong FA G class, headed up by Trey Smith and James Daniels at RG and Tevin Jenkins and Evan Brown at LG.  All four have an RAS over 9.0, and can help with the serious lack of athleticism on the OL.  Daniels had a 92 PFF grade before and Achilles injury in October, so could be had for less than market value may typically be.  

(11-19-2024, 01:37 PM)Whatever Wrote:  What do you think about drafting T McMillan WR from Arizona he’s a big WR and would be an excellent Higgins replacement. I like Tyler Warren a lot too he’s versatile and you can even line him up as a Wildcat QB

The WR FA class is quite deep with a variety of good options.  I don't think they'll be at the top end with guys like Diggs and Godwin, but I can see them looking at a B tier guy like Dionte Johnson, Darius Slayton, Amari Cooper, or JuJu.  Not a particularly inspiring WR draft class, with 5 currently ranked in the Top 50.

With the Edge rusher FA class, honestly, some big names, but if we're paying a star edge rusher over 30, it needs to be Trey.  Josh Sweat and Michael Owenu are the only decent options under 30, and then you start getting into 1st round dissappointments like Chase Young and rotation players.  9 Edges currently in the Top 50 draft prospects, though.  

DT, honestly, BJ Hill might be the best of the bunch in FA.  There are 7 in the Top 50, but several are NT's that don't offer much pass rush.

The FA S is good this year, but the TE group doesn't inspire much confidence.  You're probably looking at another classic Bengals 1 year prove it and kick the can down the road unless you're going to address it in the draft.

T honestly, they can probably just bring back Ford, who isn't great, but he's only allowed one sack, so he's at least keeping Joe upright.  They still need a 4th T to groom, but they can grab one on Day 3 or earlier if the right value is there.  

G is a huge problem.  Fortunately, it's a very strong FA G class, headed up by Trey Smith and James Daniels at RG and Tevin Jenkins and Evan Brown at LG.  All four have an RAS over 9.0, and can help with the serious lack of athleticism on the OL.  Daniels had a 92 PFF grade before and Achilles injury in October, so could be had for less than market value may typically be.  

McMillan would be a good pick, but no way he makes it to us, imo.

Whoever we take in the first, it needs to be a fire and forget, that position is set for the next 5 years pick.

(11-19-2024, 01:37 PM)Whatever Wrote: The WR FA class is quite deep with a variety of good options.  I don't think they'll be at the top end with guys like Diggs and Godwin, but I can see them looking at a B tier guy like Dionte Johnson, Darius Slayton, Amari Cooper, or JuJu.  Not a particularly inspiring WR draft class, with 5 currently ranked in the Top 50.

I agree that they don't need to spend top end money on WR2, there are too many other places to redistribute that money to improve the team in other ways. Any of those B tier guys that you mentioned would likely do well with Burrow.

With the Edge rusher FA class, honestly, some big names, but if we're paying a star edge rusher over 30, it needs to be Trey.  Josh Sweat and Michael Owenu are the only decent options under 30, and then you start getting into 1st round dissappointments like Chase Young and rotation players.  9 Edges currently in the Top 50 draft prospects, though. 

I also agree about not spending big on a FA Edge Rusher, they need someone to compliment Trey, not try to be his equal. That opposite starting DE should also have a nose for shutting down the run as well. 

DT, honestly, BJ Hill might be the best of the bunch in FA.  There are 7 in the Top 50, but several are NT's that don't offer much pass rush.

Signing BJ to a two year deal might be their best value at 3T. I would like to see them release Rankins and sign an actual NT to plug the gap while Jackson continues to grow into the role.

The FA S is good this year, but the TE group doesn't inspire much confidence.  You're probably looking at another classic Bengals 1 year prove it and kick the can down the road unless you're going to address it in the draft.

I'd like to see them sign one of the better Safeties in the FA class, but suspect they'll try to go cheap again. At TE, it might be worth giving Gesicki a modest bump in pay to stick around for at least another year. He was a great 2nd option for Burrow when Higgins was out, it might pay to keep that consistency on the team while they transition to a new WR2.

T honestly, they can probably just bring back Ford, who isn't great, but he's only allowed one sack, so he's at least keeping Joe upright.  They still need a 4th T to groom, but they can grab one on Day 3 or earlier if the right value is there.

Feel the same with OT  

G is a huge problem.  Fortunately, it's a very strong FA G class, headed up by Trey Smith and James Daniels at RG and Tevin Jenkins and Evan Brown at LG.  All four have an RAS over 9.0, and can help with the serious lack of athleticism on the OL.  Daniels had a 92 PFF grade before and Achilles injury in October, so could be had for less than market value may typically be. 

Trey Smith would be the prize, but we know how the management feels about paying interior OL. I'm not as big on Daniels as some, my friends who follow the Steelers call him garbage due to his lack of run blocking ability and want him gone for that reason. I really liked Tevin Jenkins coming out of OK St. I believe that he had some injury issues as well, but would likely be a good risk for a modest price. I believe that Evan Brown starts at C for the Cardinals, but if he also plays G, that would be good insurance if Lee proves to not have the anchor to block NTs. 

Responses in bold.

(11-20-2024, 12:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Responses in bold.

Hjate Frodholt is the Cards starting C this year, but Brown has primarily been a C in the past, as well as playing both G spots.  He's the starting LG this year.

Daniels isn't a great run blocker, but guys basically getting free runs at Burrow up the gut needs to be the priority, imo.

(11-20-2024, 12:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Trey Smith would be the prize, but we know how the management feels about paying interior OL. I'm not as big on Daniels as some, my friends who follow the Steelers call him garbage due to his lack of run blocking ability and want him gone for that reason.
Responses in bold.

(11-20-2024, 01:55 PM)Whatever Wrote: Daniels isn't a great run blocker, but guys basically getting free runs at Burrow up the gut needs to be the priority, imo.

James Daniels is a solid run blocking guard (outside of that HORRIBLE 2023 Steelers offense) and one of the better pass blocking guards in the league. With the Bengals needing both guards replaced he is an excellent choice that will be around half the price of Trey Smith... Depending on thr Achilles injury.

(11-15-2024, 06:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: All of those early picks, yet you chose no one to help the interior of the OL?? I mean if you wanted to imitate what Mike Brown might do if he bought into such a trade, you nailed it.

at this point we should look to bring in a FA IOL  for immediate upgrade

Looking through, most of the highly ranked EDGES are more OLB types rather than DEs.

In our division and with Lou (if he's back), we should prefer DE's.

Carter, M. Williams, and Pearce are OLB types, as is Umanmielen.

The top true DE's are Scourton (power rusher) and Tuimoloau, and I'm not sure either is worth a Top 10-ish pick.

Outside of Johnson and Hunter, who are likely gone in the top 5, the next 2 best CBs are out with injuries (Morrison and Revel).

Funny spot we are in. Do we take a S, RB, or TE even though they are not a premium position (Starks, Jeanty, Loveland, Warren)? There are no Top 15 worthy guards. Spend a top 15 on WR2 if Tee walks?

If we loose to Pitt after the bye we should go full tank. Play Battle & Anderson and Anthony at S. See what Matt Lee has.

I like trading down or taking S Starks or DT Harmon or both. I'd rather have really good players at lesser positions (TE, IOL, S, LB, run stopping DT) than reach and get mediocre guys a premium ones (DE, CB, pass rushing DT). Though ifJohnson falls to us, I nab him.

Wins:
2: Jags, Raiders, Giants (2 want QBs)
3: Pats, Jets, Browns, Cowboys, Panthers
4: Bengals, Dolphins, Bears, Saints, Bucs

We could be in the top 7 pretty easily with 2 losses to Pitt and 1 to Cleveland & Denver. Cowboys also on schedule.

(11-24-2024, 02:44 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Looking through, most of the highly ranked EDGES are more OLB types rather than DEs.

In our division and with Lou (if he's back), we should prefer DE's.

Carter, M. Williams, and Pearce are OLB types, as is Umanmielen.

The top true DE's are Scourton (power rusher) and Tuimoloau, and I'm not sure either is worth a Top 10-ish pick.

Outside of Johnson and Hunter, who are likely gone in the top 5, the next 2 best CBs are out with injuries (Morrison and Revel).

Funny spot we are in. Do we take a S, RB, or TE even though they are not a premium position (Starks, Jeanty, Loveland, Warren)? There are no Top 15 worthy guards. Spend a top 15 on WR2 if Tee walks?

If we loose to Pitt after the bye we should go full tank. Play Battle & Anderson and Anthony at S. See what Matt Lee has.

I like trading down or taking S Starks or DT Harmon or both. I'd rather have really good players at lesser positions (TE, IOL, S, LB, run stopping DT) than reach and get mediocre guys a premium ones (DE, CB, pass rushing DT). Though ifJohnson falls to us, I nab him.

Wins:
2: Jags, Raiders, Giants (2 want QBs)
3: Pats, Jets, Browns, Cowboys, Panthers
4: Bengals, Dolphins, Bears, Saints, Bucs

We could be in the top 7 pretty easily with 2 losses to Pitt and 1 to Cleveland & Denver. Cowboys also on schedule.

Bengals edges play more stand up OLB than true 43 ends. Bengals are a heavy 34 multiple front team. Cedric Johnson is a good example because he played the same position as Princely Umanmielen. 

At this point, I'm ok with Jeanty. If a stud RB is there, I take that over WR and secondary help. I still prefer o/d line as 1st option overall. You never know. There could be a surprise or two at the combine in these areas.

(11-24-2024, 04:19 PM)Goalpost Wrote: At this point, I'm ok with Jeanty.  If a stud RB is there,  I take that over WR and secondary help.  I still prefer o/d line as 1st option overall.  You never know.  There could be a surprise or two at the combine in these areas.

How good is Jeanty at spearheading through a pile of bodies where the hole was supposed to be?  Yep, we need interior OL.

(11-24-2024, 04:23 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How good is Jeanty at spearheading through a pile of bodies where the hole was supposed to be?  Yep, we need interior OL.

I don't think there's anyone who doesn't see IOL as an issue.  Problem is, with only 5 IOL in the Top 100 prospects, you can't go into any mock thinking you're getting a starting caliber player.

(11-25-2024, 12:00 PM)Whatever Wrote: I don't think there's anyone who doesn't see IOL as an issue.  Problem is, with only 5 IOL in the Top 100 prospects, you can't go into any mock thinking you're getting a starting caliber player.

If we stay at our current spot (10th), then there's no reason to think that we can't get a starting caliber interior guy.  They usually seem to be taken off the board in the late 30s/40s.