(12-06-2024, 12:13 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Chiefs are just being groomed to lose in the AFC-C or to lose to the Lions, NFL likes their stories.

Next year.  Not this year.  NFL wants the 3peat.

You guys are thinking with your emotions.

Sharpe is right. Burrow has to overcome these moments if he wants to be considered great. This includes finding Chase wide open for a 2 point conversion with the game on the line.

In a close game with the game on the line, Defense/No Defense, Brady, Mahomes, Manning and all these greats we like to consider Burrow with aren't making the mistakes Burrow makes. Fumbled TD's, Interceptions, 3 and outs., more fumbles, bad sacks (holding the ball for 3+ seconds).

There is no one to blame for this season but the Defense. That is indisputable, but you don't see the greats blink first in these close games. against lessor QB's like we do. When Burrow was going toe to toe with Wilson in the 2nd half, many in the gameday thread said he'd blink first and he did. That rather we like i tor not, we didn't see with the all time greats.

I think Joe is a better QB than Mahomes and Allen.

The issue is when things get dicey for those two they can use their legs and scrambling ability as a get out of free jail card. Burrow has some escape ability yes but not to the extent of those two.

It's why having an elite offensive line is so important for a QB like Burrow and why the FO continues to fail him.

The above is why I believe Sharpe is always harping on Burrow but he chooses not to explain the true reason why those turnovers occur. It's poor O-Line play and our Defense is dog crap. 

80% of the sacks Burrow takes is on him....

People claimed the line improved under Browning but that wasn't really the full story.

(12-05-2024, 12:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

The highest-graded QB in each quarter this season ? pic.twitter.com/nn5oVIom4z

— PFF (@PFF) December 4, 2024

“hE’s nOT cLuTcH”

(12-05-2024, 02:47 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Ehhhhhhhh, i don't know about that. 

I'm not blaming, just stating cold, hard, undeniable facts. 

Has Joe put his team in a position to win, late in games all year long? Without a doubt.
Has Joe played at an MVP level this year, arguably the best at his position right now? Without a doubt.
Has Joe had the ball in his hands 5 times this year with a chance to extend the lead or win a game late--and failed every time? Without a doubt. 

You can laud his MVP play, overall. You can say he's doing as much or more than anyone to put his team in position to win. 

You also can't deny that when they put the ball in his hands, against NE, KC, Balt x 2 and LAC, with a chance to ice or win the game, he has failed each time to close it out. You can minimize it, excuse it, do whatever you want with it, but it can't be denied that when the game was there to be won, when he had the ball and an opportunity to run or throw the team to a dub, he failed each time.

Those may be facts Rfaulk, but those are also situational and not all on Burrow. This Defense always fails late in games this season, always.

They cannot make a stop when it matters. Sure Burrow has had some bad fumbles late in games, but that also was on the OL etc.

(12-05-2024, 03:12 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: quit making excuses for burrows ineptitude this year on "clutch plays"..he gets paid well to make said plays

And yet Burrow is the most clutch of any QB in the NFL in the 4th quarter as shown above by Nicomo and now he is "inept" on top of it...

GTFO with this shit.

(12-06-2024, 12:39 PM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: Jesus, this again. How many leads were given up by the D in the 4th quarter?

Cannot even count it has been so bad.

(12-06-2024, 10:58 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: Burrow is having a good season but that does not change the fact that at east a dozen times this year ..if not more..he has failed on necessary third down plays

He is having a great, MVP caliber season.

Burrow has lead the team on more than a dozen game winning drives, if the kicker makes it between the goalposts, or the defense gets a stop.

You can complain about third downs not being converted, but Joe has been doing his part, without question, and then some.

FYI, the Bengals are 5th in the league in third down conversion percentage, at 45.45%, so him being "responsible" for just a dozen in your eyes is quite good and telling of the rest of the team...

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct


In third down conversions allowed, the defense is 28th, allowing them 44.37% of the time.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct

(12-06-2024, 01:53 PM)jj22 Wrote: 80% of the sacks Burrow takes is on him....

People claimed the line improved under Browning but that wasn't really the full story.

“80%”

Our OL is still awful.

Pass protection composite ratings pic.twitter.com/Byre7EywXW

— Computer Cowboy (@benbbaldwin) December 5, 2024

(12-06-2024, 12:39 PM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: Jesus, this again. How many leads were given up by the D in the 4th quarter?

So you didn't understand the statement? Didn't read the post or comprehend it properly?

If the ball is put in your $275M QBs hands with a chance to extend or win the game, he should be able to do that at least half the time. 

I already did a "how many leads" thread where i broke down how 1 score games ended. But that takes a back seat when your QB has the ball in his hands at the end of the game with a chance to win. 

GWD since '21:
Allen - 10. A total of 21 in his 6 year career. Zero in the playoffs and zero in the SB. 
Burrow - 7 total in his 5 year career. 2 in the playoffs and zero in the SB. None since 2022. 
Jackson - 9. A total of 12 in his 7 year career. Zero in the playoffs and zero in the SB. 
Mahomes - 15. A total of 22 in his 8 year career. 6 in the playoffs and 3 in the SB. 

Those are the 4 guys that most would say are the best in the NFL over the last few years. 

Goff - 11. 19 in his 8 year career. 2 in the playoffs and zero in the SB. (actually 20 total after last night).
Cousins - 15. 31 in his 13 year career. 1 in the playoffs and zero in the SB. 
Tua - 7. 9 in his 5 year career. Zero in the playoffs and zero in the SB.
Herbert - 12. 15 in his 5 year career. Zero in the playoffs and zero in the SB. 
Stafford - 9. 47 in his 16 year career. 3 in the playoffs and 1 in the SB. 

At some point, even the most ardent homers need to be able to call a spade a spade. Burrow is the 2nd best QB in the NFL and arguably the best in the NFL, stats-wise, this year. He also fails to win games at the end...a lot, when the ball is in his hands and the opportunity is right there. 

So...what? Are we trying to say he does so much during the game that he's worn himself out and just doesn't have the juice to pull out that one last drive? Are we excusing him because he does so well in the first 55 minutes?

You can. I won't. 

(12-06-2024, 03:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Those may be facts Rfaulk, but those are also situational and not all on Burrow. This Defense always fails late in games this season, always.

They cannot make a stop when it matters. Sure Burrow has had some bad fumbles late in games, but that also was on the OL etc.


And yet Burrow is the most clutch of any QB in the NFL in the 4th quarter as shown above by Nicomo and now he is "inept" on top of it...

GTFO with this shit.


Cannot even count it has been so bad.

So it's always someone else's fault? Ball in his hands. Chance to run or throw to get the job done. It's always someone else's failure? No one else has to overcome bad Online or bad defense or poor play calling or they're playing against the best defense in the NFL or the refs screwed us or the wind was blowing too hard or a reciever dropped a perfect ball or...etc, etc, etc. 

I hope he plays for 15 more years, wins multiple SBs, MVPs, all that shit. I hope he retires with the arguments as the GOAT. 

Not being able to be superman and pull games out late is going to make that very hard though. 

Maybe he should have thought about it before going the Batman route...

(12-06-2024, 03:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: And yet Burrow is the most clutch of any QB in the NFL in the 4th quarter as shown above by Nicomo and now he is "inept" on top of it...



Cannot even count it has been so bad.

Highest "graded". That =/= clutch.



Well, it can and was counted by me, thoroughly in another thread.

(12-06-2024, 07:07 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So you didn't understand the statement? Didn't read the post or comprehend it properly?

If the ball is put in your $275M QBs hands with a chance to extend or win the game, he should be able to do that at least half the time. 

I already did a "how many leads" thread where i broke down how 1 score games ended. But that takes a back seat when your QB has the ball in his hands at the end of the game with a chance to win. 

GWD since '21:
Allen - 10. A total of 21 in his 6 year career. Zero in the playoffs and zero in the SB. 
Burrow - 7 total in his 5 year career. 2 in the playoffs and zero in the SB. None since 2022. 
Jackson - 9. A total of 12 in his 7 year career. Zero in the playoffs and zero in the SB. 
Mahomes - 15. A total of 22 in his 8 year career. 6 in the playoffs and 3 in the SB. 

Those are the 4 guys that most would say are the best in the NFL over the last few years. 

Goff - 11. 19 in his 8 year career. 2 in the playoffs and zero in the SB. (actually 20 total after last night).
Cousins - 15. 31 in his 13 year career. 1 in the playoffs and zero in the SB. 
Tua - 7. 9 in his 5 year career. Zero in the playoffs and zero in the SB.
Herbert - 12. 15 in his 5 year career. Zero in the playoffs and zero in the SB. 
Stafford - 9. 47 in his 16 year career. 3 in the playoffs and 1 in the SB. 

At some point, even the most ardent homers need to be able to call a spade a spade. Burrow is the 2nd best QB in the NFL and arguably the best in the NFL, stats-wise, this year. He also fails to win games at the end...a lot, when the ball is in his hands and the opportunity is right there. 

So...what? Are we trying to say he does so much during the game that he's worn himself out and just doesn't have the juice to pull out that one last drive? Are we excusing him because he does so well in the first 55 minutes?

You can. I won't. 

I watch the games this is a fair criticism of Burrow

(12-06-2024, 07:15 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So it's always someone else's fault? Ball in his hands. Chance to run or throw to get the job done. It's always someone else's failure? No one else has to overcome bad Online or bad defense or poor play calling or they're playing against the best defense in the NFL or the refs screwed us or the wind was blowing too hard or a reciever dropped a perfect ball or...etc, etc, etc. 

I hope he plays for 15 more years, wins multiple SBs, MVPs, all that shit. I hope he retires with the arguments as the GOAT. 

Not being able to be superman and pull games out late is going to make that very hard though. 

Maybe he should have thought about it before going the Batman route...

No, no one else has ever had to overcome this exact situation. It’s literally unprecedented for a QB to be putting up these numbers with a losing record.



Focusing on some subjective “clutch” gene or whatever the **** is ridiculous during a season like this, and is the definition of not seeing the forest for the trees.

(12-06-2024, 07:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No, no one else has ever had to overcome this exact situation. It’s literally unprecedented for a QB to be putting up these numbers with a losing record.



Focusing on some subjective “clutch” gene or whatever the **** is ridiculous during a season like this, and is the definition of not seeing the forest for the trees.

It's not just this season though been happening even when we were good

(12-06-2024, 07:32 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: It's not just this season though been happening even when we were good

Sure.

Curious how many of Mahomes’s GWD come with help from penalties either called or not called

No QB has it easier than Goff right now pic.twitter.com/VkSnR1tJIp

— Steven Patton (@PattonAnalytics) December 6, 2024

Been saying it for forever, Burrow is literally playing on hard mode compared to a lot of these guys.

(12-06-2024, 07:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No, no one else has ever had to overcome this exact situation. It’s literally unprecedented for a QB to be putting up these numbers with a losing record.



Focusing on some subjective “clutch” gene or whatever the **** is ridiculous during a season like this, and is the definition of not seeing the forest for the trees.

That's not true at all (for me at least) since i've clearly posted, many times, that he's having an MVP type season and he's arguably the best QB in the NFL this year, statistically. He's playing superman with an offensive line and defense that are bottom of the barrel. 

1. Burrow is having the best year of his career.
2. Burrow is failing to produce GWDs multiple times this year.

Both of those things can exist at the same time. The entire argument is, some will look at his overall numbers and ignore his failures. Some will look at his failures and ignore his overall numbers and some will look at his overall numbers, look at his failures and be able to see that both can be happening at the same time. 

It's up to each person to decide which category they want to place themselves in.

only the dimmest of minds are buying his argument that Burrow is the reason they lose

it's not a narrative that has gained any traction. So if youre taking the bait, I dont know what to tell you

(12-06-2024, 01:47 PM)jj22 Wrote: You guys are thinking with your emotions.

Sharpe is right. Burrow has to overcome these moments if he wants to be considered great. This includes finding Chase wide open for a 2 point conversion with the game on the line.

In a close game with the game on the line, Defense/No Defense, Brady, Mahomes, Manning and all these greats we like to consider Burrow with aren't making the mistakes Burrow makes. Fumbled TD's, Interceptions, 3 and outs., more fumbles, bad sacks (holding the ball for 3+ seconds).

There is no one to blame for this season but the Defense. That is indisputable, but you don't see the greats blink first in these close games. against lessor QB's like we do. When Burrow was going toe to toe with Wilson in the 2nd half, many in the gameday thread said he'd blink first and he did. That rather we like i tor not, we didn't see with the all time greats.

I saw Brady blink first twice against Eli Manning. The first time he had no business doing so. I saw his brother blink first against a second year QB for the Steelers at home. I saw Peyton blink first repeatedly when he had one of the best offenses of all time when they faced the Legion of Boom (also against a second year QB). Mahomes blinked first on 3 different occasions against us. There was definitely something in his eye. Y'all are too much. Expecting the QB to carry this sorry ass team for 60 minutes. Burrow's performance matched with this team's record is literally unprecedented... It's basically impossible to play this well, and have your team suck this bad. 33 MFers out on that field, but the best guy out there is blinking first?

(12-07-2024, 01:16 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: only the dimmest of minds are buying his argument that Burrow is the reason they lose

it's not a narrative that has gained any traction. So if youre taking the bait, I dont know what to tell you

Utterly ridiculous...