(12-29-2024, 03:59 PM)M.W. Wrote: If we do not sign Tee, upgrade the defense and the O line. Burrow is great with a subpar line (better than he enjoyed previously), could you imagine him with a solid line that could also open a hole for those 10 runs a game?

Simple but great post...i think yoshi has great potential to be a number two or three...and i rhink most of the contibutors of Jungle Noise could find a couple of dozen very good receivers in college that would do very well here and withBurrow

Most of us know that if they let Tee go, they'll be looking for a #2 WR for a long time.

And the defense will still be mediocre.

Love Tee but he just doesn’t play enough games. Tough choice, sometimes better the devil you know.

(12-29-2024, 05:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Most of us know that if they let Tee go, they'll be looking for a #2 WR for a long time.

And the defense will still be mediocre.

KNOW that? How long have we ever had to look for a #2 WR? 

2017 was the last time we didn't have a clear cut good #2 WR (Brandon LaFell who was a solid #2 in 2016)
2012 was the previous year before that (Marvin Jones' rookie season)
2009 where we had 1 year of Lavernus Coles after Housh left

There was a year where AJ Green missed and Boyd was pushed out of #2 into #1, but that could literally happen just the same with Chase and Higgins. We still had a #1 and #2 on our roster initially.

We've never had a hard time finding #2 WRs to pair with our #1s (and we've almost always had a #1 WR too) since the start of the Marvin era. That's legitimately one of the few things this front office IS good at. So worrying that we can't replace a #2 WR is funny. We replaced Marvin Jones with Boyd, and we replaced Boyd with Higgins. We'll replace Higgins with the next guy.

(12-29-2024, 05:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Most of us know that if they let Tee go, they'll be looking for a #2 WR for a long time.


And the defense will still be mediocre.

I'll take mediocre - they have been terrible. With mediocre, Joey B and company can lead the way as I believe this season isn't a fluke and we basically now have Brady 2.0 which is kind of funny because some of us wondered what a Brady led Bengals team would look like under Marvin or a lesser coaching staff. Well, now we know. 

Lou needs to go it can't get worse. We need to find someone who can give us mediocre. A guy that can turn a bunch of nobody's into hungry animals.

These last 2 years were our window and the defense and a freak injury blew it. Now we have to go all in on our strength. 

(12-29-2024, 06:30 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: KNOW that? How long have we ever had to look for a #2 WR? 

2017 was the last time we didn't have a clear cut good #2 WR (Brandon LaFell who was a solid #2 in 2016)
2012 was the previous year before that (Marvin Jones' rookie season)
2009 where we had 1 year of Lavernus Coles after Housh left

There was a year where AJ Green missed and Boyd was pushed out of #2 into #1, but that could literally happen just the same with Chase and Higgins. We still had a #1 and #2 on our roster initially.

We've never had a hard time finding #2 WRs to pair with our #1s (and we've almost always had a #1 WR too) since the start of the Marvin era. That's legitimately one of the few things this front office IS good at. So worrying that we can't replace a #2 WR is funny. We replaced Marvin Jones with Boyd, and we replaced Boyd with Higgins. We'll replace Higgins with the next guy.

They appear to have whiffed on Burton.

(12-29-2024, 06:49 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote:
I'll take mediocre - they have been terrible. With mediocre, Joey B and company can lead the way as I believe this season isn't a fluke and we basically now have Brady 2.0 which is kind of funny because some of us wondered what a Brady led Bengals team would look like under Marvin or a lesser coaching staff. Well, now we know. 

Lou needs to go it can't get worse. We need to find someone who can give us mediocre. A guy that can turn a bunch of nobody's into hungry animals.

These last 2 years were our window and the defense and a freak injury blew it. Now we have to go all in on our strength. 

The strawman is that the only way to improve the defense is to lose Tee. There are different ways to fix the defense.

(12-29-2024, 10:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They appear to have whiffed on Burton.

And? They whiffed on Ross too and then Boyd stepped up. Simpson was a wiff but then we signed TO. Then Simpson finally broke out, and after he left Marvin Jones stepped up. Etc. We have only been without a legit #2 WR for ~3 years in the last two decades and never two years consecutively.

The idea that they'll be looking for a #2 WR for "a long time" if Tee leaves is silly and not based in actual reality. I'll shit talk the Bengals FO all day with you if you want to talk about one of the many many things they're actually bad at.

(12-29-2024, 11:04 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And? They whiffed on Ross too and then Boyd stepped up. Simpson was a wiff but then we signed TO. Then Simpson finally broke out, and after he left Marvin Jones stepped up. Etc. We have only been without a legit #2 WR for ~3 years in the last two decades and never two years consecutively.

The idea that they'll be looking for a #2 WR for "a long time" if Tee leaves is silly and not based in actual reality. I'll shit talk the Bengals FO all day with you if you want to talk about one of the many many things they're actually bad at.

Eh...Whitworth leaves and they took years to replace him.

Bates...2 whiffs and he's not replaced.

Reader...

When our good players leave, it takes time generally.

(12-28-2024, 01:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: One thin we know for certain. The current staff and personnel can be/ has been among the best in the NFL. The D has yet to do it. Don't kill the one thing your teams is good at.

This!

Extend Chase and tag Tee. 

(12-29-2024, 11:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Eh...Whitworth leaves and they took years to replace him.

Bates...2 whiffs and he's not replaced.

Reader...

When our good players leave, it takes time generally.

Can't believe you forgot about Zietler! You are losing your touch Negatron!

(12-29-2024, 11:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Eh...Whitworth leaves and they took years to replace him.

Bates...2 whiffs and he's not replaced.

Reader...

When our good players leave, it takes time generally.

Oh weird, I didn't know Whitworth, Bates, or Reader played WR which is the only position I was talking about in the posts you replied to.

Because as I said, I will happily shit talk the Bengals FO about all the things they're bad at and drafting OL, DBs, and DL are absolutely on that list of things they're bad at. My only point, the ONLY point I am making is that WRs aren't one of them. We have always been able to find and put together pretty good WR groups. 

Hell, it's not even like we're starting from scratch. We have a top-3 (and currently not 2nd or 3rd) WR. Hard part is already done, which makes even less sense to bring up Whit, Bates, or Reader. We didn't have a top-3 OT, S, or DT that they were the #2 to.

(12-29-2024, 01:37 PM)Go Cards Wrote: If Burrow and Chase took pay cuts then it would be incredible to keep Tee and would be my #1 wish.

But the 3 at full price would be a huge mistake in my book. So would selling the future for him.

bottom line is that we've had Tee the entire time Burrow has been here and the Bengals are about to miss the playoffs once again.

The game yesterday by Tee was masterful and a thing of beauty to watch. But Burrow was working Gesicki and Chase so often and Chase Brown doing well too it gave Tee the golden opportunity to shine getting lots of single coverage.

Still Tee is awesome and a great complimentary piece to Chase. It's a dilemma and I get that it will be a tough call

This would be the first time burrow has missed the playoffs when finishing the season. So the “once again” part isn’t entirely true.

The bengals are 7-4 this year when the 3 play together. They are 1-4 in the games Tee hasn’t played. Tee gives us our best chance to win, as currently constructed. Letting him go next year will undoubtedly make the offense worse, and I don’t believe it will make our defense decidedly better.

(12-30-2024, 12:16 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Oh weird, I didn't know Whitworth, Bates, or Reader played WR which is the only position I was talking about in the posts you replied to.

Because as I said, I will happily shit talk the Bengals FO about all the things they're bad at and drafting OL, DBs, and DL are absolutely on that list of things they're bad at. My only point, the ONLY point I am making is that WRs aren't one of them. We have always been able to find and put together pretty good WR groups. 

Hell, it's not even like we're starting from scratch. We have a top-3 (and currently not 2nd or 3rd) WR. Hard part is already done, which makes even less sense to bring up Whit, Bates, or Reader. We didn't have a top-3 OT, S, or DT that they were the #2 to.

We've had a lot of good WRs over the decades, but it took them 5 seasons to recover from Marvin Jones walking. I do realize injury played a role in AJ Green and Tyler Boyd not really being ba thing, but still.

(12-29-2024, 06:49 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote:
I'll take mediocre - they have been terrible. With mediocre, Joey B and company can lead the way as I believe this season isn't a fluke and we basically now have Brady 2.0 which is kind of funny because some of us wondered what a Brady led Bengals team would look like under Marvin or a lesser coaching staff. Well, now we know. 

Lou needs to go it can't get worse. We need to find someone who can give us mediocre. A guy that can turn a bunch of nobody's into hungry animals.

These last 2 years were our window and the defense and a freak injury blew it. Now we have to go all in on our strength. 

so what you are saying is that we keep tee and take a mediocre defense and end up playing maybe .500 ball

(12-30-2024, 11:35 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: so what you are saying is that we keep tee and take a mediocre defense and end up playing maybe .500 ball

We had a mediocre defense in 2021 and 2022.

Just saying.

We have had a bad defense this year and the bengals are 7-4 when Higgins plays. 1-4 when he doesn’t.

Injuries are a thing, but it’s unquestionable that this team wins way more than they lose when the 3 play together.

(12-29-2024, 03:50 PM)motoarch Wrote: Exactly where did they spend that money they saved?

You have no idea.  You want to believe that's true but you can't prove it.

This will be  my last post regarding this discussion ...I have tried to be very polite  but to suggest the team use more than one third of its payroll  on three players is just downright silly

(12-30-2024, 11:43 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: This will be  my last post regarding this discussion ...I have tried to be very polite  but to suggest the team use more than one third of its payroll  on three players is just downright silly

What is downright silly is the bengals lack of restructures. Equally as silly is your opinion on this.

2025 cap commitments (as of now)
Chiefs are an example of having 1/3 tied up into 3 players:
Mahomes $66m
Chris jones $36m
Japan Taylor or Thuney (Taylor may get cut) - $27m


On the flip side is the eagles, who have a $96m cap hit for Jalen hurts in 2029 and a $50m+ cap hit for AJ Brown in 2030.

When it comes to average annual value, the eagles are at $51m for hurts, $32 for brown and $25 for smith. The biggest difference in eagles v bengals is their ability to draft well on the defensive side of the ball and the way they structure contracts. The bill will ultimately come due, just like for the saints, post drew brees.

To answer your last post, teams can thrive by tying up 1/3 of their cap into 3 players. Teams do this better with creative restructures (maybe burrow does this?). Teams do best when they supplement with good drafting.

I would like to think the bengals can find a middle ground where they can do some creative stuff while not royally hosing themselves in 3-5 years.

build an excellent Defense

(12-30-2024, 11:43 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: This will be  my last post regarding this discussion ...I have tried to be very polite  but to suggest the team use more than one third of its payroll  on three players is just downright silly

Eagles seem to be doing fine paying Jalen Hurts, AJ Brown, and Davonta Smith... not to mention Lane Johnson, Jordan Mailata, Landon Dickerson, and of course Saquan Barkley.