It won matter until we do better ter in the draft and free agency. Letting bates go was worst decision and not the replacing him with a good free agent. Need to have a good plan to replace super stars

(01-07-2025, 01:36 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I don't believe for one second he was hobbled. He limped around between plays then during the plays he moved like he was 100%. I think he wanted us to blitz him.

The old Mickey Rivers move, for baseball fans. He'd hobble back to first base after running out a foul ball and then steal second. 

(01-07-2025, 12:42 PM)jj22 Wrote: The thing about Lou you can’t take from him is he told all that would listen what losing Bates, Bell, and Reader would do to the defense…..

And no one in the FO listened.

True. He publicly stated it would be a dark night if the Bengals lost both Bates and Bell. 

I was very low on Lou after his first season. Then with the good free agent acquisitions he really turned it around. He is part of some of the most memorable moments of the Bengals for me. But while I think his scheme works with the right players he struggles to change it if the players are struggling with it. A coach that will adjust his scheme a little better to the personnel that he has will suit us a little better.

(01-07-2025, 01:36 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I don't believe for one second he was hobbled. He limped around between plays then during the plays he moved like he was 100%. I think he wanted us to blitz him.

He definitely likes to exaggerate the limp after bad plays. It also annoys me hearing he had a high ankle sprain. Feels like they need different names for different degrees. 

(01-07-2025, 12:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's been my view too.
I guess my question is...is a coordinator responsible for actual coaching or not?

The DC would be responsible for all aspect of the defense, not just the play calling.  If a fundamental problem in regard to tackling is recognized then it would be on the HC to bring it to the DC and the DC to make sure it's being worked on through the position coaches.  But in terms of actual coaching, I think they would save that to their position coaches and perhaps their previous specialty.  However, teams do not work fundamentals during the season.  They have to get ready for the next game...gameplan....film study, etc.  Fundamentals are worked in the offseason.

(01-06-2025, 09:55 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: I dont think its any of the aforementioned..I watched the detroit game...they have great linmen...we dont

So it has nothing to do with coaching? I disagree, a good OL coach like the Lions has in Fraley can coach up his players.

They don't just come into the league great even if Sewell and Ragnow were very polished, this isn't reality.

A good coach has to work with what he has. I don't like Duke and his terrible picks either, but coaching has been part of the problem.

To act like it isn't is foolish.

(01-07-2025, 01:34 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Normally this would be correct. But these guys have been taught to make tackles certain ways their entire playing careers from Pop Warner through college and the pros. Then all of a sudden the NFL changes the tackling rules and players have to learn new methods. No more hip dropping, no more landing on the QB., etc etc. So, it was the position coach's job to make sure they made the transition. I do not believe ours did. 

I get that but landing on the QB is just for pass rush/hitting the QB so that only affected Trey (no one else ever seemed to get close to the QB).

Hip drop tackles are more from the side/back and most of what I saw was poor hitting/technique/angles/effort etc. True that some of this is on Lou and the staff but I just saw a lot of half assed/arm tackle attempts. Players should take a lot of blame for this IMO but I do agree with replacing Lou and some coaches.

Hopefully the new D coordinator will stress tackling and effort to fix what we saw this year. Also hoping they can correct whatever happened to CTB this season.

(01-07-2025, 12:03 PM)Sled21 Wrote: That's actually on position coaches. 

Who do the position coaches answer to first? If Lou didn't make the observation known, that's on him. However, he should have called a defensive team meeting and put his damn fist through a chalk board over the inanity of poor tackling technique.

(01-07-2025, 12:51 PM)Whatever Wrote: If your entire scheme is dependent on two guys being healthy, then you need to adapt your scheme.  Lou was stubbornly slow to do so.

If we lost just 2 guys from the offense should we be able to adapt our scheme and do just as good?  Take away Burrow and Chase, adapt our scheme and we shouldnt see a major drop up because losing just two guys shouldnt make a difference.  All you need to do is adapt your scheme.

The problem Lou had is the defensive personnel he was given throughout his years here was not overly talented to begin with but he was able to make it work.  When you start losing the top talent you do have on a not so talented defense, it's going to cause issues.     Outside of Hendrickson, when you look at the current defensive roster who do you look at and say that guy is elite?  No one.  We have many younger players that have some potential that arent there yet and a few that might be above average but arent great.

For those wanting Saleh as the new DC, just remember the talent he had to work with on those 49ers defenses.  Lou never had that type of talent.  If Saleh is hired, he wont have that talent either like he had in San Francisco.  It doesnt mean Saleh isnt a good DC.  He could be.  Its harder to tell though when you have a defense loaded with talent vs taking over a defense that isnt.

(01-07-2025, 03:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Who do the position coaches answer to first? If Lou didn't make the observation known, that's on him. However, he should have called a defensive team meeting and put his damn fist through a chalk board over the inanity of poor tackling technique.

You know what might help?

(01-07-2025, 05:45 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: If we lost just 2 guys from the offense should we be able to adapt our scheme and do just as good?  Take away Burrow and Chase, adapt our scheme and we shouldnt see a major drop up because losing just two guys shouldnt make a difference.  All you need to do is adapt your scheme.

The problem Lou had is the defensive personnel he was given throughout his years here was not overly talented to begin with but he was able to make it work.  When you start losing the top talent you do have on a not so talented defense, it's going to cause issues.     Outside of Hendrickson, when you look at the current defensive roster who do you look at and say that guy is elite?  No one.  We have many younger players that have some potential that arent there yet and a few that might be above average but arent great.

For those wanting Saleh as the new DC, just remember the talent he had to work with on those 49ers defenses.  Lou never had that type of talent.  If Saleh is hired, he wont have that talent either like he had in San Francisco.  It doesnt mean Saleh isnt a good DC.  He could be.  Its harder to tell though when you have a defense loaded with talent vs taking over a defense that isnt.

Dude, you're contradicting yourself in your own post. Which is it, scheme shouldn't be dependent upon key players, or you've gotta have the talent to make the scheme work?

(01-07-2025, 05:45 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: If we lost just 2 guys from the offense should we be able to adapt our scheme and do just as good?  Take away Burrow and Chase, adapt our scheme and we shouldnt see a major drop up because losing just two guys shouldnt make a difference.  All you need to do is adapt your scheme.

The problem Lou had is the defensive personnel he was given throughout his years here was not overly talented to begin with but he was able to make it work.  When you start losing the top talent you do have on a not so talented defense, it's going to cause issues.     Outside of Hendrickson, when you look at the current defensive roster who do you look at and say that guy is elite?  No one.  We have many younger players that have some potential that arent there yet and a few that might be above average but arent great.

For those wanting Saleh as the new DC, just remember the talent he had to work with on those 49ers defenses.  Lou never had that type of talent.  If Saleh is hired, he wont have that talent either like he had in San Francisco.  It doesnt mean Saleh isnt a good DC.  He could be.  Its harder to tell though when you have a defense loaded with talent vs taking over a defense that isnt.

Burrow is a wonky argument, because everyone knows how important QB's are.

However, the offense has been without key guys like Chase, Tee, Brown, and Mixon and still performed pretty well.

Nobody expected there not to be a drop off when those guys left, but the entire unit shouldn't completely fall off a cliff, either.  There were games where we were literally going for it on every reasonably plausible 1st down because the D literally couldn't get a stop.  

(01-07-2025, 12:42 PM)jj22 Wrote: The thing about Lou you can’t take from him is he told all that would listen what losing Bates, Bell, and Reader would do to the defense…..

And no one in the FO listened.

Fact

(01-07-2025, 03:27 PM)Stewy Wrote: The DC would be responsible for all aspect of the defense, not just the play calling.  If a fundamental problem in regard to tackling is recognized then it would be on the HC to bring it to the DC and the DC to make sure it's being worked on through the position coaches.  But in terms of actual coaching, I think they would save that to their position coaches and perhaps their previous specialty.  However, teams do not work fundamentals during the season.  They have to get ready for the next game...gameplan....film study, etc.  Fundamentals are worked in the offseason.

Exactly, except for Cincinnati, where the coaches are expected to scout college players too. That part is a joke.

(01-07-2025, 06:04 PM)Whatever Wrote: Burrow is a wonky argument, because everyone knows how important QB's are.

However, the offense has been without key guys like Chase, Tee, Brown, and Mixon and still performed pretty well.

Nobody expected there not to be a drop off when those guys left, but the entire unit shouldn't completely fall off a cliff, either.  There were games where we were literally going for it on every reasonably plausible 1st down because the D literally couldn't get a stop.  

Very true ....and the offense was at least capable with Browning. Yet, people say the offensive scheme sucks. 

Zac don’t like the run game he is not committed to improving it. 2 years now we can’t even get a yard when needed. Or run out the clock. Are run game is wide receiver screens. It’s quite easy to tell when the bengals are running sample goes in and Joe goes under center.

(01-07-2025, 12:45 PM)Whatever Wrote: Newton, Ivy, Battle, Hill looked good at CB and Turner showed strides.  

CTB is more of the outlier, when you account for injury.

Well Battle wasn't CB but he was ok at SS.
Only 1 INT, 1 PD, but did have 8 missed tackles on 464 defensive snaps.
Regression somewhat compared to last year.

I wouldn't call Newton or Ivey "good," as they had their blunders.
Hill was the only "good" one really, and it was unfortunately just for a handful of games.

Newton might be long-term CB4.

Always Leave a place better than you found it!! ✅

— Marion Hobby (@big_hobb) January 7, 2025

(01-07-2025, 05:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Dude, you're contradicting yourself in your own post. Which is it, scheme shouldn't be dependent upon key players, or you've gotta have the talent to make the scheme work?

No, I was being sarcastic.  You dont think taking away Burrow and Chase would instantly make the offense worse regardless of scheme?  Using YOU'RE logic losing just two players shouldnt matter.  You can simply adjust the scheme and everything should be OK.  

If you were to replace Burrow and Chase with Carson Wentz and Kadarius Toney, regardless of what scheme you use, the offense is going to be worse.  Talent matters. When you dont have much talent to begin with, then lose the better talent you do have, you are not going to scheme your way out of the lack of talent.  

Many people on here have been hyping Saleh for how great he did in San Francisco.  Yes he did great as DC but he was given a ton of talent on defense to work with.  Its easier to make your scheme work when you have talented players.  Again, having talent matters.  If Lou and his scheme were truly the problem, we shouldnt need to add any talent to the defense this off season.  Bring everyone back, roll with the current group of guys on defense and we should be dramatically improved next year because the problem was simply Lou and his scheme.  Nobody would agree with that because it should be clear to everyone we are missing talent at different positions on defense.